how is icg on grading and authntication

midwestcoin13 · February 21, 2005 3:41AM

This is my very first post so I thought might as well bring up this beloved subject.Opinions on ICG'S grading and authentication skills being able to detect problem coins, etc.One catch though do go on about the moderns please that has been dicusses.Also people who have there heads so far up pcgs's behind there in the mouth please dont say anything for you are biased!!!Also I thought I would drop this one little thing about ICG grading.this information i am about to tell you is straight out of my dsn folder from ICG."Grading Standard.ICG will strive to have the most consistent and accurately graded coins on the market.The high quality of the ICG product will be evident to all.The ICG standard will be the generally accepted market standard with an emphasis on eye-appeal and originality.This is to protect the high quality of the ICG coin".Also may I add these couple of sentences."ICG will not have authorized or member dealers.All dealers automatically recieve a 20% discounted price on their submissions just by using a dealer submitter number (DSN)".Also ICG no grades coins they believe have bad eye-appeal.Finally they only charge $5.00 for no grades then credit the rest to you unless the coin is counterfit or has been altered.Now maybe ICG is big on bumping up coins for eyeappeal great PCGS geniuses.I can't believe I am questioning the PCGS people!

flaminio · February 21, 2005 3:54AM

<< I can't believe I am questioning the PCGS people!

>>

And you'll get the expected responses from PCGS people.

Have you tried the Kool-Aid yet?

midwestcoin13 · February 21, 2005 4:03AM

Yes i have tried the kool-aid it needs more sugar and a little bit of decon.Just to note I did say that pcgs people who have there head so far up pcgs's but that there in the mouth shouldn't post but of course once the kool-aid kicks in there zombies!

paigowjohnny · February 21, 2005 4:57AM

I wouldn't submit to them...but you can find pretty nice coins in their holder if you look...and you'll probably get them cheaper...if you know what you're buying...

FullHorn · February 21, 2005 5:16AM

Welcome to the boards and with a great first post like this you should fit right in

mrearlygold · February 21, 2005 5:21AM

Have you tried the Kool-Aid yet? >>

Was it electric?

Tom

pharmer · February 21, 2005 5:29AM

<< Welcome to the boards and with a great first post like this you should fit right in

>>

My thought as well.

KurtHorn · February 21, 2005 5:30AM

First, let me say I am still fairly new to this board, and you managed to offend me anyway with the "so far up the" comments. I have and do use all the top 4 services for different things and different reasons. In response to your question: ICG is superior in detecting fakes and problems, they have one of the top industry experts in J.P. Martin. Does this mean that they catch everything? No, no service does. As far as grading. They are IMO very tight (conservative) on grading circulated coins. They are fairly conservative on lower grade ie MS 60-64 coins. Where they fall down (again IMO) is sometimes in very high grades they are sometimes a point or two too liberal in their grading especially in Modern Coins.

This is a PCGS board. If you come into someone's house you should respect their home.

Deadhorse · February 21, 2005 5:48AM

With regards to; PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG only, I will say the following:

Most of the clearly AT'd coins I see slabbed are in an ICG holder. Coincidence? Seems unlikely.

They are indeed the king of the MS 70, no one comes even close in that category.

I collect very few non MS slabbed coins, so I can't speak to circulated coins with much experience, but based on the above, I tend to look upon them with a jaundiced eye.

Nice opening post, BTW. If you walk into a party, do you introduce yourself by spitting in people's drinks?

ElectricEye · February 21, 2005 6:06AM

Midwestcoin13, I suggest you try: LINK.

coinbuf · February 21, 2005 6:11AM

Humm you(midwestcoin 13) wake-up on the wrong side of the bed?

Chris

Bochiman · February 21, 2005 6:11AM

I would comment more but I didn't get far in your post as I felt insulted right away but also because I couldn't punish my eyes to read your whole post!
Line breaks and paragraphs are your friend, please use them accordingly

Thank you

BigGreek · February 21, 2005 6:12AM

<< I wouldn't submit to them...but you can find pretty nice coins in their holder if you look...and you'll probably get them cheaper...if you know what you're buying... >>

I agree. I think they are in the ballpark with NGC and ANACS. PCGS is just a touch
more conservative. One could argue that PCGS is the one which is out of line.
ICG has a little issue with the upper MS grades, though so alot of people will
look down on them. I don't take their 69s and 70s seriously, nor should you.

Catch22 · February 21, 2005 7:10AM

PCGS is used as the benchmark to compare everyone else. If you understand the PCGS grading standards, then you end up judging some of the other services based on how close they align with PCGS in what they look for and how they assign grades. Of course, some of the other services are so bad that comparing them to anybody is a mistake.

ICG is reasonably well respected in the industry (Heritage, for example, accepts their slabs for auction) but, Mint State and genuinely rare coins are currently judged (by most) based on what PCGS would grade them.

tsacch · February 21, 2005 7:15AM

i have a few coins that are way over graded in ICG holders.......not really high dollar coins but they are at least a point off......not to mention very liberal on the dcam designation.

Boom · February 21, 2005 7:20AM

<< Nice opening post, BTW. If you walk into a party, do you introduce yourself by spitting in people's drinks? >>

Atta boy Midwestern!

If you can't dazzle them with Brilliance just baffle them with Bull$#!+

Your writing and, shall we say, spelling abilities seem somewhat "lacking". What....were you nervous or something?

Just what in the Hell was that supposed to be anyway? Some sort of dreamed up "Big Intro" with you spitting all over yourself

looking for a fight, a plug for ICG....What did he say anyway? Oh and it's "THEIR" behinds. Next time you walk into our House

why don't you take those Heartland Dung slippers off, sit down, introduce yourself properly and THEN if you care to make a

point or come in with your flame thrower, might I suggest you practice a little beforehand. I'm sure in your mind, it took a lot of

nerve to do whatever it is you THINK you did, it's just that I can't seem to figure out what "It" is! Care for a Mulligan?

newport · February 21, 2005 8:14AM

I don't know what to say.......you must be looking for something, but you will not find it here.

Bochiman · February 21, 2005 8:24AM

I think the newbie is littlejohn and doops combined (by the writing style).

mgoodm3 · February 21, 2005 8:26AM

Welcome, I guess.

CUEBALL · February 21, 2005 8:41AM

Gee! I thought I was bold when I ask a couple of questions on my introduction thread,I feel like little red riding hood now! anyway

TUMUSS · February 21, 2005 2:57PM

ER · February 21, 2005 3:05PM

<< This is my very first post so I thought might as well bring up this beloved subject.Opinions on ICG'S grading and authentication skills being able to detect problem coins, etc.One catch though do go on about the moderns please that has been dicusses.Also people who have there heads so far up pcgs's behind there in the mouth please dont say anything for you are biased!!!Also I thought I would drop this one little thing about ICG grading.this information i am about to tell you is straight out of my dsn folder from ICG."Grading Standard.ICG will strive to have the most consistent and accurately graded coins on the market.The high quality of the ICG product will be evident to all.The ICG standard will be the generally accepted market standard with an emphasis on eye-appeal and originality.This is to protect the high quality of the ICG coin".Also may I add these couple of sentences."ICG will not have authorized or member dealers.All dealers automatically recieve a 20% discounted price on their submissions just by using a dealer submitter number (DSN)".Also ICG no grades coins they believe have bad eye-appeal.Finally they only charge $5.00 for no grades then credit the rest to you unless the coin is counterfit or has been altered.Now maybe ICG is big on bumping up coins for eyeappeal great PCGS geniuses.I can't believe I am questioning the PCGS people!

>>

Troll alert!! Troll alert!!!

GoYankees · February 21, 2005 3:34PM

<< They are indeed the king of the MS 70, no one comes even close in that category. >>

SGS has ICG beat

BTW Is it me or am I seeing more posts, here and across the street, that are talking up ICG lately?

itsnotjustme · February 21, 2005 10:08PM

Welcome to the boards!

I must say, while new folks often don't know a lot about coins, most of them are above a 3rd grade writing ability. To show we are friendly and helpful, let me help you with one sentence.

<< Just to note I did say that pcgs people who have there head so far up pcgs's but that there in the mouth shouldn't post but of course once the kool-aid kicks in there zombies! >>

Let us start before the first letter. Seeing the prior character was a period, two spaces are normal before the start of the next sentence.

Next, PCGS is an acronym, and should be capitalized.

After that we see the word "there" which normally is used to indicate a location, incorrectly used as a pronoun.

Next, we see the possesive form of PCGS, but it is again lower case and is wrongly ended in "s" apostrophe "s". When forming the possessive form of a word anding in "s", a second "s" is not added after the apostrophe.

Noteably, "but" is used as part of the anatomy, but it is not.

Followed by a second mistake between their and there.

And a third there-their mistake.

Finally, a clear lack of understanding for the need to punctuate with periods and comma so the reader can separate thoughts and breath.

Again, welcome and I hope you find as much helpful information as I have given you here.

p.s. I am normally a good guy, but the few posts you have made changed that.

ksteelheader · February 21, 2005 10:19PM

vega1 · February 21, 2005 10:33PM

I too had too much difficulty with your grammar and punctuation to even understand the post, and I think you should indeed look into the kind advice about hooked on phonics and the thoughtful analysis of your post provided by itsnotjustme. However, I think I still got the point. You want to know (presuming you are not in fact just a troll, and are really looking for an honest answer) about ICG. So, either;

a) you have already decided to go with them for some unknown reason (the wonderful marketing verbiage you quote maybe?) and want to feel good about your decision, or
b) You think they will be the most cost effective, and want to feel good about your decision

In either case, you have come to the wrong place. The people here are not in fact drinking anything (unless they are lucky) and in fact give PCGS a hard time as much as anyone else. Use the search function and search for threads on ICG and you will find dozens, everything you need to know is there. As much as you may want ICG to be praised as a first tier grading company, they will not, because they aren't, period. Use them all you want, but they are not PCGS, or NGC, or even ANACS. Can they spot a fake? probably.

bushmaster8 · February 21, 2005 10:54PM

You ARE Doops. Right?

itsnotjustme · February 21, 2005 11:37PM

I do think this is an alt ID/troll. Why would a person slam themselves in their (or there) own signature line?

ksteelheader · February 21, 2005 11:53PM

<< I do think this is an alt ID/troll. Why would a person slam themselves in their (or there) own signature line? >>

Idiot?

midwestcoin13 · February 22, 2005 2:57AM

<< I do think this is an alt ID/troll. Why would a person slam themselves in their (or there) own signature line? >>

I'm back just like a bad stomach virus you want gone but know is coming back.Now how should I go on in this post because people have said so much well let me see.I guess I'll start by apologizing to those people who I have actually offended.This is because this thread wasn't meant to offend anyone.

Now I better respond to some of the posts because it sounds as though people really love me on this board.About the quote on the top I am not an alt ID/troll.Also I believe you have misread the point of my rickshaw fly by night coin operation on EBAY.That is a joke, if you ever happen to meet me you might find out that is how I do stuff.

Now about my grammar or really my lack of it.I am a very bad typer and the written language is something i've never been good at but from now on i'll try to make sure I keep my writing on posts the best I can.

Now I better stop saying now but I'll use it a bit longer.Now about the across the street thing and talking about ICG.If you look on the NGC boards you will find my first posts had to do with the grading services.I would recomed going there to read those.

Now about my big spending EBAY ourchases.I had to buy some storage boxes for my rickshaw operation on Ebay.By the way just a note I hope to soon have weekly auctions on Ebay soon.

Now about some of the things from my first post.This thread was meant to get somewhat unbiased opinions on ICG's grading.I have read all of the other posts on ICG but I felt they had a problem.Some of the people who posted there opinion seemed to be PCGS suckups.I was going to put PCGS suckups shouldn't post but what I wrote seemed funnier to myself.

Please note I do have a warped sense of humor.If you ever saw me watching the news you would know that.Now on to others matters in that post.Some of the information I quoted was meant to make some points.Such as the quote on ICG grading was meant to imply that in my OPINION maybe they grade correctly but bump coin up due to eye appeal.

Including the thing about the no grade coins was meant as a way to say this is something very intresting and maybe PCGS and NGC should think about doing something like it.

Now then let us all start this post again and get it going on opinions on ICG's grading.PLease don't bring up the modern coins though because that has been argued all ready and I believe every body has the same opinion on it.

In closing again I sincerely apooqize to anyone I've offended as I really didn't mean to offen anyone.Now i'm done writing this post and writing the word now.

ER · February 22, 2005 2:59AM

Prethen · February 22, 2005 3:03AM

I've wrote this a number of times in this forum, I like ICG. Yep, forget about the modern crap discussion. Their coin grading is very conservative and they won't hesitate to bodybag a coin or downgrade (net grade) it due to a cleaning instead of always bodybagging it. I have several coins in their slabs and the dealers I've shown them to generally have agreed and liked the coins. I will be trying to sell some of them at local coin shows starting next month, so I'll see first hand how the collector community responds to these slabs in my cases.

midwestcoin13 · February 22, 2005 3:09AM

<< I've wrote this a number of times in this forum, I like ICG. Yep, forget about the modern crap discussion. Their coin grading is very conservative and they won't hesitate to bodybag a coin or downgrade (net grade) it due to a cleaning instead of always bodybagging it. I have several coins in their slabs and the dealers I've shown them to generally have agreed and liked the coins. I will be trying to sell some of them at local coin shows starting next month, so I'll see first hand how the collector community responds to these slabs in my cases. >>

You are the type of person i'm looking for to post.Someone with an opinion and a person who gives a fari shakedown to everyone.

midwestcoin13 · February 22, 2005 3:11AM

You are the type of person i'm looking for to post.Someone with an opinion and a person who gives a fari shakedown to everyone. >>

I meant to write a fair shakedown not a fari shakedown.

coinmickey · February 22, 2005 3:14AM

When ICG disengages from doing the grading for HSN and the like I'll consider them....

Amazing how there are so many MS69's and 70's out there in ICG holders being hawked on these horrible shows.

Smittys · February 22, 2005 3:14AM

fari

opps welcome, maybe now you get some of the responses
you were looking for.

Russ · February 22, 2005 3:15AM

<< I like ICG....I will be trying to sell some of them at local coin shows starting next month >>

Good luck.

<< so I'll see first hand how the collector community responds to these slabs in my cases. >>

Try selling some to dealers and see what happens.

Russ, NCNE

midwestcoin13 · February 22, 2005 3:20AM

<< When ICG disengages from doing the grading for HSN and the like I'll consider them....

Amazing how there are so many MS69's and 70's out there in ICG holders being hawked on these horrible shows. >>

You must not be a fan of NGC I assume because they do almost all the grading for the Coin Vault.Also I believe everyone has the same opinion on the modern ICG grading.

vega1 · February 22, 2005 3:26AM

I think if you use the search function as I suggested you will find enough opinions on ICG to keep you busy for some time rather than re-hashing it in this thread. You did get opinions here in this thread, just apparently not the ones you want to hear. If you only want to hear from people who like ICG, once again, you are posting in the wrong place.

If you want to hear it, moderns aside, I do not own any ICG coins, I would not submit to them, and I would not buy sight unseen ICG coins. This is because in my own experience they have not been as consistent, reliable, or respected as PCGS, NGC, or ANACS. My opinon only.

itsnotjustme · February 22, 2005 3:27AM

<< PLease don't bring up the modern coins though because that has been argued all ready and I believe every body has the same opinion on it. >>

If everyone has the same opinion, who was their to argue?

flaminio · February 22, 2005 3:27AM

<< When ICG disengages from doing the grading for HSN and the like I'll consider them....

Amazing how there are so many MS69's and 70's out there in ICG holders being hawked on these horrible shows. >>

Do you also not consider NGC because of their close relationship with Shop At Home/Coin Vault?

ICG is excellent in circulated grades, and many uncirculated grades. They're a little too quick with the 70s in moderns -- or maybe it is PCGS that is too tight with them? As far as their operation, they are certainly above board, and do not deserve to be lumped into the bottom-feeder dreck that so many on this site tend to do.

midwestcoin13 · February 22, 2005 3:33AM

<< I think if you use the search function as I suggested you will find enough opinions on ICG to keep you busy for some time rather than re-hashing it in this thread. You did get opinions here in this thread, just apparently not the ones you want to hear. If you only want to hear from people who like ICG, once again, you are posting in the wrong place.{/q}

I have read all the old threads on ICG wich if you have read some of my comments you will see why I started this one.Also I only got one opinion before the rest were about myself.I am looking for true honest opinions.Although now biased ones and I believe you know what I believe is biased.

boyhowdy · February 24, 2005 1:42AM

I had the same general result from ICG as I did with PCI. Buy low, sell low.

Early good, later bad.

I bought ICG slabs for my MS Barber dime set when that service made their debut. Early purchases (and resale) included --
1907-S dime ICG MS63 blast white paid $260 (eBay) , sold $300 (Teletrade) IMHO correctly graded
1910 " " MS66 satiny, no marks paid $400 private sale sold $400 (Teletrade) IMHO PCGS MS65, NGC MS66
1910-D " " MS63 BLAST paid $240 private sale sold $210 (eBay) IMHO solid for grade
1911 " " MS65 " paid $180 (eBay) sold $240 (Teletrade) IMHO 64ish

Lesson learned -- Buyers were leery of ICG grades and the low prices reflect that. In the future I will not be so tenative about cracking out
higher value uncs. I, like most buyers, respected the slab more than our own eye.

If I can find more ICG Barber dimes at 50% or so of bid I will give them a long hard look.

Steve

dthigpen · March 17, 2005 12:53AM

how is icg on grading and authntication

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