Topps has lied about heritage

joestalin · February 15, 2005 9:49AM

I just wanted to point out some fallacies as far as heritage goes. The sale sheets were clear and the format has been about the
same the past 4 years. Sure the list may change but as a longtime heritage fan, I find this insulting.

1. Real one autos, auto odds have gone from 1:230 to 1:333 with no major improvment in the auto list...most likely they just made
more product, thus watering down boxes.

2. The dreaded topps team legends autos were on the sale sheets...there were 2 listed as TBD with one of those a secret star.....we
get the box and now there are 6 with one of them being Nolan Ryan...again watered down

3. Each hobby box will have one pennant box loader...again false

I just wanted everyone to have some facts before they go out and buy more. Topps has taken advantage of set builders by watering down
this product. This is what has been expected from topps over the past months. It looks like I might be streamlining my buying this year.

JS

softparade · February 15, 2005 9:55AM

yikes, my first reaction to the lack of autos being pulled was more production. This is my first leep into Heritage, I'm not so excited about the boxes i have coming my way anymore. Still a little, but I'm not sure about blowing off work to hit every Wal-mart and Target I can find. Any chance retail will be better?

joestalin · February 15, 2005 10:00AM

I didn't want to scare anyone off, but topps sells products all the time in the 80 dollar price range that deliver an autograph a box. They
have sold packs that cost 30-50 bucks a pop that include one autograph. This is unacceptable as far as value is concerned. Topps has
printed up a sales sheet that looked very nice but they did not deliver. I wouldn't pay more than 55 for a box of this stuff at the
current configuaration. It cost nothing to print up base cards, if that is what you are going to do then heritage needs to be a 1.99/pack
product.

I hate to kill this for people but cmon topps!

JS

NBAFan · February 15, 2005 10:09AM

Once again a card company shows it's true colors. Too bad collectors didn't form a group and start boycotting companies like Fleer and Topps until they clean up their acts. It's total BS what they do to the collectors who spend their hard earned money to come up empty after they lure the collectors in by their wrongful advertising practices. Topps really doesn't care just like Fleer, because they already have the money and people still keep buying their products.

softparade · February 15, 2005 10:15AM

joe...... I'm not getting spooked but it just sucks to see 2 months of high hopes become a letdown at first light. I only have 3 hobby boxes coming but I was planing on hitting retail as hard as I could. Not so sure now ....

Stone193 · February 15, 2005 10:16AM

Kevin and I worked on Heritage last year.
I have been a fan since 2001 and a supporter.

Autos are important and all the rest...but don't forget the fun is in the set...building a nicely centered master set is still my main goal - as it is for Kevin.

So, when the time comes, we will send a "present" to Topps...but let's not forget: People felt last year was one of the best years for collecting on this forum!

I say, we have the product, let's make some sets!!!

your friend
Mike

Basilone · February 15, 2005 10:18AM

I was going to buy a couple of boxes tomorrow to try and get the auto from the case the shop had...now I will probably just pass.

I'm dissappointed....no Pennants...long odds on autos compared to past years.

softparade · February 15, 2005 10:19AM

Leave it to Mike to spread a little good vibe!

Basilone · February 15, 2005 10:21AM

2005 Topps Heritage = Bowman Heritage?

I hope not...but it is looking that way.

$55 sounds about right for this product.....I expect boxes to go for $59 on eBay within a few weeks.

Allen · February 15, 2005 10:34AM

the hank aaron auto lisnt that nice, signed on the darkest spot...

Look at the autos on eBay 4 of the 5 are lower end stars

easttexascardsandgames · February 15, 2005 10:46AM

I still need my Heritage fix.. It sucks about the pennants, I will be questioning Topps about those once I get my box, that could actually end up causing a major class action suit if they are not careful.

kuhlmann · February 15, 2005 10:57AM

you guys know if anyone has put together the master set from one case? if that is happening then it is a bomb. bc then the sp's wont be worth what they were last year.

I am sure though if anyone pulls an auto of aaron or some of the other good auto's the relic and auto's #d /25. or a black refractor they will be all smiles and keep busting the retail for the next 2 months. god im praying the boxes i sent out and still mailing tomorow and thursday provide big hits. more complaining now means the nice auto's and black refractors are still out there.

Ps on the penats did my write up have them in the box? bc i check now and it doesnt. dont know if they switched or what?

Allen · February 15, 2005 11:00AM

quite a few master sets on ebay already.

joestalin · February 15, 2005 11:07AM

Im only 2 boxes into it but I have been very pleased with the coallation. I got only one double in two boxes (which were from the
same case). Im thinking that topps made it this way so a case would get you a set or at least very close. We can all remember the
nightmare last year, 8 of one guy and none of the others! That just hurt....maybe even more than the auto/pennant deal!

Im going to email topps tomorrow and see what is up, Im going to give them a chance to speak on this. Maybe they have an answer, I would
hate to think they would just screw good customers, but then again it has happened several times this year already.

Kevin

Buccaneer · February 15, 2005 11:10AM

<< Once again a card company shows it's true colors. Too bad collectors didn't form a group and start boycotting companies like Fleer and Topps until they clean up their acts. It's total BS what they do to the collectors who spend their hard earned money to come up empty after they lure the collectors in by their wrongful advertising practices. Topps really doesn't care just like Fleer, because they already have the money and people still keep buying their products. >>

I think there are a number of folks here who have done just that...not buy any moderns at all. If more felt that way, then changes would occur.

Stone193 · February 15, 2005 11:20AM

I agree that the auto situation and the Box Toppers have taken the wind out of our sails but this is not a product where the main purpose is to "find the insert" and trash the rest of the cards.

Heritage has been for set builders IMO. It bridges the gap between modern and vintage better than Fleer or UD could ever dream!

The collation looks good - a PLUS! But, I'll bet there is a Purple Uni Card waiting to bite me in the ass!

Kevin
I'm going to need ya buddy...plus where can ya get all that gum!

joestalin · February 15, 2005 11:25AM

I heard that Lothar is buying the gum for 100.00/lb

can anyone confirm??

JS

mudflap02 · February 15, 2005 11:26AM

Only one black refractor on the bay so far. Signs not looking good, but like Kuhlmann said, hopefully the later cases will be loaded.

joestalin · February 15, 2005 11:28AM

even with this stuff looking weak I would still take a chance on the early retail boxes...after a week I would say leave it unless they
are yielding multiple sp's

Kevin

softparade · February 15, 2005 11:31AM

joe, YES! Lets wait to see what retail yields. I'm just a rookie with modern and heritage but even after the early returns it still seems too early to call this a bomb. Just ask John Kerry

easttexascardsandgames · February 15, 2005 11:33AM

Last year the early cases were the hits even though many of the better hits came later. Could be just the opposite this year.

Knopfler · February 15, 2005 11:36AM

Question. I just looked at the 2005 Topps Heritage completed auctions singles and there are a bunch of base cards listed individually that sold for $2.00 each! What's up with that? They are very cleary labeled as base cards. I'll link one as an example.

Base Card on EBay

Basilone · February 15, 2005 11:58AM

I have 14 auctions up right now... 1 Day Auctions...(before the dump)

Basilone's 2005 Topps Heritage Auctions

Allen · February 15, 2005 12:01PM

Don't buy boxes...Just buy these !

And look you get a $3.00 Shipping Discount if you don't go through PayPal ! Geez I wonder Why?!?!?

Basilone · February 15, 2005 12:06PM

Not complaining..just stating fact. Topps duped us.

Basilone · February 15, 2005 12:14PM

My Bonds #61 had bids totaling $3.55 but I pulled the auction cause I had SP in the title. I think there are 2 variations and I did not want bidders to think I was selling the SP....cause nothing is official yet.

Lothar52 · February 15, 2005 12:21PM

heck yes...SEND ME ALL YOUR GUM!!!! I LOVE THAT STUFF!!!

Stone193 · February 15, 2005 12:25PM

<< I have 14 auctions up right now... 1 Day Auctions...(before the dump)

Basilone's 2005 Topps Heritage Auctions >>

Damn John
You pulled this from a Hobby box! Way to go!

Basilone · February 15, 2005 12:27PM

LOL....

the gum is much better this year IMO....none of that powder.

and its sugerless to boot!

Stone193 · February 15, 2005 12:31PM

<< LOL....

the gum is much better this year IMO....none of that powder.

and its sugerless to boot! >>

John
Surgarless? Darn, that means that Lothar's not goin to need a dentist afterall!

I still think we should put up a thread on what to do with all that gum - maybe a contest?

your friend
Mike

envoy98 · February 15, 2005 2:42PM

Yeah, the sugarless gum is not nearly as good as last years. plus, it's a bit smaller. I replied on the "official heritage thread" already, but I'll say this. I ripped an unopened case of hobby today ($520 out the door) I got no autos, 4 crappy game used (3 were stadium seats). I was VERY disappointed there were no box toppers, my sp's just about hit on the odds as did my inserts and chromes. I got 1 black refractor out of my case. I'm just trying to figure out why hobby is $130+/case more than retail? I got my retail cases for $400 and my hobby cases for 500 and 520. The odds are identical (sans the 1:93,000 chance of pulling a cut 1/1 auto) How...in 192 packs (entire unopened case) do I not hit 1 of the 1:163 autos? Topps is getting a call tomorrow, I can't back out of any of my cases (particularly my other hobby case) my retail case should still be worth it. I'm betting though that the booster boxes do not share the same good fortune with us that they did last year. It was widely rumored that many a hobby shop were voicing their displeasure with Topps over that one. I'll be the first in line at Target early next week if they start showing up though. Was very bummed Topps didn't release the retail cases the same day as hobby either, unless Chris at Blowout just gave me a line of bs. <shrugs>

Anyway, great looking cards, awesome collation on the sp's/chromes (inserts were ok on collation, missing 3 and have 7 or 8 dupes) Not a single dupe on my chromes, or high numbers which was awesome. I'm 11 cards away from a master set after a single case. To me, that's awesome. I should get somewhere in the 5-600 range for the master set and I'll still have my wonderful (rolls eyes) game used, plus all my chromes, refractors, and my black refractor, not to mention my extra inserts and 1500 singles. I've got at least 2 more full base sets in the box as well. So for $520 a case I'm happy in that respect, just bitter it's $130 more than retail and you get nothing extra... and I mean nothing. If anyone needs base, let me know. After my 10 box break tomorrow I'll be sitting with over 3000 "commons" for sale/trade.

Basilone · February 15, 2005 2:47PM

<< I got no autos, 4 crappy game used (3 were stadium seats). >>

man..that is horrible for a case...pretty much any product on the market will give you better results!

Stone193 · February 15, 2005 2:50PM

<< 

<< I got no autos, 4 crappy game used (3 were stadium seats). >>

man..that is horrible for a case...pretty much any product on the market will give you better results! >>

John
Can't argue with that! I believe they should have made sure that there was a "case auto card" guaranteed! I bought only two hobby last year and yielded one auto - albeit, Floyd!?!

Highend just pulled a Boog Powell - not too shabby.

your friend
Mike

Basilone · February 15, 2005 2:57PM

Best of Luck Mike with yours. Lets hope you get a loaded case !!!

goudeygold · February 15, 2005 3:56PM

I hate to say it, but... VINTAGE!! HEHEHE not looking to stir it up, but sounds like another modern let down, or maybe they are watering it down to try to maintain value. If everyone gets the SPs, then it can become a gimmick even sooner than it has become. We'll see where the value in these are in a couple years.

GG

easttexascardsandgames · February 15, 2005 7:59PM

GG- I'll say it again this set will hold its value even if there do seem to be some problems. It is still the most popularly consistent set produced right now and has become a set builders favorite. It has never been the lure of the high dollar that drives this set, but the fun in just building the set.

carew4me · February 15, 2005 9:08PM

Maybe this product is like John Kerry.

Lots of early hype, then a down period, then you build steam, but in the end you still lose.

GoBravesGo · February 15, 2005 10:14PM

<< Maybe this product is like John Kerry.

Lots of early hype, then a down period, then you build steam, but in the end you still lose. >>

AkbarClone · February 15, 2005 10:43PM

I guess the Heritage box topper pennants are like Bush's claim about the WMDs in Iraq.

Basilone · February 15, 2005 10:44PM

<< I hate to say it, but... VINTAGE!! HEHEHE not looking to stir it up, but sounds like another modern let down, or maybe they are watering it down to try to maintain value. If everyone gets the SPs, then it can become a gimmick even sooner than it has become. We'll see where the value in these are in a couple years. >>

GG-

Most of us who are on this thread and collect heritage are strictly vintage collectors to begin with. This is the one "modern" set that we collect each year.

Lothar52 · February 15, 2005 10:51PM

anyone got a link to topps sheet stating odds and pennant toppers???

id like to see this lie in person lol

loth

highend · February 15, 2005 11:00PM

i have to agree that this year is the worst as far as the autos go. the team topps cards have very little resale. last year i pulled i pulled 2 real one autos thorton kipper and joe borowski, i sold them both for over 25 a pop. i also sold a bunch of the box toppers for close to 100 bucks. it looks as though this year may yield the smallest return for me.
on the bright side, the cards are sharp looking , i pulled some nice cards and after almost a whole case i'm not even close to finishing the master set.the new age performers seem few and far between this year and the variations look to be tough.
overall, i'm sure auto collectors may be disappointed but the set builders should still have alot of fun putting this one together.

envoy98 · February 15, 2005 11:50PM

highend-I ripped my hobby case and am only 11 cards away from a master set. I need 3 inserts, 3 (as of the current list) variations and 5 or 6 High #'s. I was very happy with the collation. I don't know if I got any NAP dupes, but if I did you are welcome to make an offer on the ones you need. I expect after my case today to be very close to 2 master sets. One will go on ebay to pay for the first case, the other will stay with me for a while.

I did seem to get about 4-5 of every single base card too, so the base sets are very easy to complete.

envoy98 · February 15, 2005 11:52PM

oh, and lothar-I pulled down all the sells sheets from gcxonline, no mention of pennants anymore. I also looked at the product highlights on charmcitycards and blowoutcards, neither makes mention of the pennants anymore either. Auto odds are still listed as 1:163 though.

kingraider75 · February 16, 2005 12:05AM

how much, per box, are you folks paying?

easttexascardsandgames · February 16, 2005 12:17AM

I guess the Heritage box topper pennants are like Bush's claim about the WMDs in Iraq.

Well not excatly I believe that they may have been there at one time, many of the weapons used against us in the invasion were in violation of the UN agreement, but no WMDs. I think as soon as he realized what was up they all got sent to Syria.

I paid 68.00 for my first 2 boxes and 70 for the 2 I ordered this morning.. I still have not got to open a pack yet..

envoy98 · February 16, 2005 12:46AM

<< I paid 68.00 for my first 2 boxes and 70 for the 2 I ordered this morning.. I still have not got to open a pack yet.. >>

Ack! Maybe I should sell my boxes.

I paid
8 - retail boxes @ $50 (bought as a case) (wont ship til 2/24 bummer)
8 - Hobby boxes @ $62.50 (bought as a case) (Ripping today)
8 - Hobby boxes @ $65 (bought as a case) (Ripped yesterday)
2 - hobby boxes @ $55 (wouldn't let me buy any more) (Ripping today)

I will probably buy a few more today as well, those will cost me $63.74/box

Basilone · February 16, 2005 12:52AM

I paid $65 cash out the door for each box from a card store.

kingraider75 · February 16, 2005 12:54AM

cash is king

Basilone · February 16, 2005 12:55AM

Anyone think of Topps when they see this?

Buccaneer · February 16, 2005 1:04AM

<< 
Most of us who are on this thread and collect heritage are strictly vintage collectors to begin with. This is the one "modern" set that we collect each year. >>

Understood. But it appears that they treat their customers in the same manner as anyone else buying modern crap. Even though it does have appeal for the vintage collectors, the sets are produced and marketed no differently than any of the other stuff.

Topps has lied about heritage

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