MR AU58's Big Adventure, or this proof set stuff isn't easy!
MadMarty
Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
1st of all let me state, that you guys who this this hunting for proof sets if a cake walk.. Think again. Today started out at 7AM, off to Starbucks for coffee and on the road to Layfatte IN. 2 1/2 hour and 150 miles later, I hit the 1st shop. This is one of the dealers who is always at our local shows, but always says the proof sets are in the shop. He has about 10 brown envelope proof sets (nothing great but a toned 61 Lincoln) and 50 blue box sets. I did get him for a bunch of killer Jeffs and a very nice 1971 Kennedy, a bunch of double dollar Canadian sets and a Discovering Nature Canada set. Then it's off to Paxton IL, 60 miles west and another hour in the car. The shop is closed!
Up I-57 to Gilman, another 30 miles and the shop there is GONE! Another dealer bites the dust! So 40 miles north to Kankakee and a small shop there. Buy the 4 blue box sets (the 68 and the 70 Kennedy) and a nicely toned 67 Canada set. Then over to east 25 miles to B&L coins. Only to find out it's Bills shop and all I can pick up there is a couple of Canadian sets. So 9 hours killed and 350 miles Netted 19 Blue Box sets, 2 brown envelope sets, 1 1965 SMS set, 4 Canada Double Dollar sets, 2 PL sets and the set of Discovering nature set.
These pics are through the plastic and the scratches are on the plastic. Now out of the 20 Blue Box sets, I might submit 10 coins! I will say one thing (Hey Keets, listen up!) the 1969 Jefferson, is the most FROSTY DEEP CAMEO nickel I have ever seen!
So, for all you guys who think this proof set stuff is easy, think again! There is a lot of time and effort in it.
Up I-57 to Gilman, another 30 miles and the shop there is GONE! Another dealer bites the dust! So 40 miles north to Kankakee and a small shop there. Buy the 4 blue box sets (the 68 and the 70 Kennedy) and a nicely toned 67 Canada set. Then over to east 25 miles to B&L coins. Only to find out it's Bills shop and all I can pick up there is a couple of Canadian sets. So 9 hours killed and 350 miles Netted 19 Blue Box sets, 2 brown envelope sets, 1 1965 SMS set, 4 Canada Double Dollar sets, 2 PL sets and the set of Discovering nature set. These pics are through the plastic and the scratches are on the plastic. Now out of the 20 Blue Box sets, I might submit 10 coins! I will say one thing (Hey Keets, listen up!) the 1969 Jefferson, is the most FROSTY DEEP CAMEO nickel I have ever seen!
So, for all you guys who think this proof set stuff is easy, think again! There is a lot of time and effort in it.
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
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Comments
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
42/92
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
2. PR68DCAM.
3. PR69DCAM.
4. PR68CAM.
5. PR68DCAM.
6. PR69CAM.
Submit accordingly..................................
al h.
you must remember that i'm just grading the photos and of course will trust your judgement. i will say this much about the 1969 Jefferson, the ever-so-slight-friction prevents any dreamy 70DCAM hopefullness and with any hairlines it's a 68DCAM despite the thick frost. R&I Coins had an NGC that looked even better and priced at $650. my one day hesitation in pulling the trigger is the only reason it isn't in my collection.
al h.
That '69 Jeff IS an amazingly frosty coin. It is a virtual twin to the 5 1970 proof sets my old coin boss once showed me - and would not sell to me - no matter what. Every single coin as black and white as you could imagine.
So I have to wonder, being in the Chicago area too, where the heck I'm ever to find such sets. Those shops that I have access to, I do make an effort to look, but the proprietors I know are rather loathe to sell me anything at a "normal" rate that could possibly be worth such a premium - if I were ever able to turn up even one example.
I can still see those '70 sets my old boss had in my mind's eye.
<< <i>the ever-so-slight-friction prevents any dreamy 70DCAM hopefullness and with any hairlines it's a 68DCAM despite the thick frost. >>
It certainly has the kinda frost one sees on 70 DCAM pieces (at least, I had frost like that on a 70 DCAM quarter once, which I sold to Typetone- what ever happened to him?) But the slight disturbance to the frost on Tom's temple probably precludes a 70 grade. Still, it's a monster.
i can't speak for anyone else, but dealers will generally charge a slight premium if anything past sheet at all, they view these sets as a commodity. i've been out of the loop for about a year and a half since my local guy moved, but "your dealer" will generally set them aside for you, maybe even call when he gets bunches of sets for you to look through. it's a quick flip for them, and unless they submit to the majors they don't have the time or even care to search. hence, they generally have atrue feeling for what's tough and what the prices for the top grades are.
al h.
I guess it was just my bad luck, years ago, that my old boss didn't consider those '70 sets as "super nice" but OK to let me get one - the fact that ALL the coins were cherry, and the cases & boxes in perfect untouched shape, worked against me!
That Jefferson is a killer! I can't wait to see the grade (assuming you're sending it in). Awsome job Marty!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>I still do wonder though, MM, how much do you, Russ, or other aficionados pay up for these sets "in the raw"? Do the dealers have an inkling of the possible premiums? >>
I've sometimes paid a premuim. For example, I paid $50 for a 1964 proof set at a local shop a while back because the dealer recognized that the Kennedy was a cameo. Of course, it grade PF69UCAM at NGC and I did a quick flip for $550.
Most of the time though, it's like Keets said. Little or no premium. The 1967 SMS Jefferson I posted in this thread came from a set I picked up at a show today for $15.
Russ, NCNE
it's not as if these same dealers would let a raw, clearly MS piece go for AU money, or an AU go for VF price, "just because it's raw". so why do they let killer proof coins walk out the door, "just because they are in sets". does US mint plastic trump all subjective grading, nullifying it, the true anti-slab?
are they *that* busy they can't even be bothered to look? do they not have the skill to pick out a potential CAM/DCAM? why be a coin dealer at all then, have they lost passion, or was it never there? is it only "inventory to be moved quickly", or is it just "modern crap" to them?
it's obviously not!
Some of it is because they have the same attitude as some board members....that the proof/mint sets are "modern crap" for "fools".
Local dealer that pulled up stakes and close the shop about a month or two ago would only stock mint/proof sets when people sold to him for a loss....
He saw no reason to buy from the mint because "they all go down and are common anyway".
Read on the board and you will see some of that same mentality.
So, some dealers "specialize" on the older coins (morgans/peace/IHC/3c/barbers/etc) and anything that is "modern" is greysheet/bluesheet.
They don't send those "modern crap" coins in to get certified and they don't think they are worth more than what is on the sheets.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>marty you should have detoured to South Bend for the show, about 15 dealers set up. >>
Way too far out of the way. BTW there is a show in Indy today... But I'm going to Countryside...
what you're alluding to takes the dealers time, time not only to sort through the sets but time to educate themselves. and again, not just time to educate themselves about what the "money makers" in the sets are, but time learning how to properly grade. remember, to most of these dealers the sets are a commodity requiring time to profit from and time is money. most are of the attitude that it's better to make a small, quick profit instead of waiting for the bigger profit. also, it isn't as though there are legions of collectors who do what Marty described in his opening post. the "searchers" are a very finite group which would equate to dealers spending time---money---and then tying up more money for an indefinite period while they wait for the right person to come along and pay a possible premium.
it's much easier to the dealers to treat these sets as the commodity that they are and make the quick flip. the norm from my local guy is to buy them with a cursory glance to verify they are what they are----proper date with intact packaging and not damaged---and then to make a quick call to the guy in Erie who stocks them in his shop and wholesales to HSN. when he was only about three minutes from my home and i was a frequent visitor, he'd hold the stuff for a day or two till i'd stop in, let me look through them and then sell at GreySheet bid. he would sell to the dealer in Erie at 5% back of bid, so i actually made him money.
whether you believe it or not, many dealers won't even look at the 1979 and 1981 sets to check for the T1-T2 SBA's, even if they could tell the difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
al h.
Just my version of a "YOU SUCK"
Give them guys too many and their heads get too big for their hats !
BTW,get Tom a coat,dudes freezing !
<< <i>I generally only refer to "MODERN CRAP" for coins that belong to Russ and Marty >>
And, we are both honored.
Russ, NCNE
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
Russ, NCNE
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>So, for all you guys who think this proof set stuff is easy, think again! There is a lot of time and effort in it. /Q]
A 1 minute phone call to see if the shops were still there and when they are open would have saved you time and stops
Cameron Kiefer