Morgan price variance stupid

hotpockets01

Where do they get the formula to set the price differance between grades on Morgan's or on any coin for that matter. I just got a 1890 P Morgan PCGS MS64 price guide $135.00. MS-62 $33, 63, $45 then all of a sudden it jumps to $2,500.00 for a MS65 now I don't care but that's ridiculous. One point on the scale and it goes up $2,365.00 between 64 and 65 now way.

kieferscoins

Then sell your 65's for just above 64 money and correct that mistake.

Seriously....some coins are much harder to find in that one jump grade and are worth the extra money. I agree with you and if I was collecting like that I'd stick to the cheaper MS-64 coin and use the money for another coin.

Cameron Kiefer

nwcs

Theoretically it's related to the demand and scarcity at the various conditions. A lot of people would agree that a huge jump for a number is silly.

techeff

Here's your answer:

MS64 Pop: 2,040
MS65 Pop: 179

Steve27

Coins are like wine, you have to spend exponentially more money to get a linear improvement in quality. That's why subjective grading sucks.

kranky

I would add that there is more to it than the price sheets. Taking your example of a 1890-P Morgan as $135 in 64 and $2500 in 65, remember that there will be plenty of 64's that sell for $1000. And there are 65's that will sell for $2000.

Grading is a continuum and so is pricing.

msch1man

<< <i>Coins are like wine, you have to spend exponentially more money to get a linear improvement in quality. That's why subjective grading sucks. >>



Very well put.

TommyType

Half the fun is finding the "right coin" in the grade you can afford. Start looking for an extremely nice MS-64, which the way the market works now-a-days probably won't cost you much more than a really bad 64. Let the "big money" people fight over the 65's!

hotpockets01

You know I guess your all right supply and demand. But sometimes you wonder if one point is worth trying for a regrade Heck if you go up one point you gain a lot if you go down one not much of a loss at all on this coin. Just wanted to vent.

DNADave

That is why we have the "break-out" game now.

MrEureka

Coins are like wine, you have to spend exponentially more money to get a linear improvement in quality. That's why subjective grading sucks.

First sentence is true. Second sentence is a complete non sequitur. Surely there is nothing wrong with paying extra for what you like.

MrEureka

BTW, I've probably seen 100 1890 dollars that I would grade 65. Of those, I haven't seen 10 that I'd want to own long term at $2500. Now, you could call the glass half empty or half full, but I prefer half full. In other words, the 10 I like at $2500 are probably a GREAT value.

CalGold

<< <i>the 10 I like at $2500 are probably a GREAT value >>



Interesting point.

CG

mr1931S

The following statement is made in this context: (a) I'm not a big dollar guy (b) I have difficulty discerning a really nice 64 from minimal 65 in the Morgan dollars and (c) I'm skeptical of the reason or reasons given for price guide "exponential dollar" increase for one point higher grade, regardless of the series.

Having said this, I would rather spend my $2500 on 40, or more, really nice MS64 1880-S's or one 1893-S, the finest that....scratch that...these are $4000 in VF20 according to my 2005 Red Book. Okay, a circulated Bust dollar, small or heraldic eagle reverse for my $2500.

hotpockets01

Thank you MR 1874 you said what I was trying to say but was having trouble finding the words. (Not unusual) What's the bid differance between a 64 and 65 I can see a 60 and a 67 but a 64 and a 65. Also when I grow up I hopw I can think just like Mr. Eureka good thoughts thanks.

CalGold

<< <i> I would rather spend my $2500 on 40, or more, really nice MS64 1880-S's >>



Why would anyone want 40 or more of those? 40 ho hum common dates?

I think most collectors would rather pay a premium over ms 64 greysheet for a very high end ms64 1890with excellent eye appeal than pay anythinng close to sheet for a lifeless 65. What Andy is saying is that if you are particular enough in buying, the MS65 you wind up with could be a hell of coin and could be a good deal at $2,500 if you could get it at that price. There is a thread here about whether nicely toned coins are really hard to come by. Bustman posted the beatiful toned bust quarter from the recent ANR sale. That coin sold for multiple of its grey sheet value.

CG

mr1931S

"Why would anyone want 40 or more of those? 40 ho hum common dates?"

The 1890 is a common date, too. But that's not the point.

"I think most collectors would rather pay a premium over ms 64 greysheet for a very high end ms64 1890with excellent eye appeal than pay anythinng close to sheet for a lifeless 65."

This is probably true for the collector who needs the common date 1890 Dollar for some reason. For a collector trying to assemble a complete set of MS64 or 65 dollars, I guess $2500 is chump change. After all, the '93-S is going to cost at least 100 times that much in 64. $2500 is not chump change to most collectors, though.

"What Andy is saying is that if you are particular enough in buying, the MS65 you wind up with could be a hell of coin and could be a good deal at $2,500 if you could get it at that price."

Knowing that to "most collectors" $2500 is not chump change, I'd rather take my chances to profit from my two plus rolls of nice 1880's or one small or heraldic eagle Bust dollar. As for, "could be a hell of a coin," if the label on the PCGS label identifies the $2500 1890 dollar as the "katie bar the door specimen" I might have to rethink my position.

hotpockets01

Keep going guys I'm learning a lot like the rest of the newbies are. I've only been in the coin businesss a short while compared to some of you. But I do agree about appeal My favorite coin is a toss up between a Standing Liberty Quarter and a Walking Liberty and eye appeal is so important to me on these coins. I have a 1941 S Walker that just shines MS64 and it does look better then two MS 65 I have one a 1946P the other a 1943P They don't have that snow white luster but because of the strike made 65 you know right thumb is visible and that stuff. But I like looking at the 41 S.

morganbarber

I was checking Ebay prices against the PCGS price guide and for the PL coin pictured, PCGS claimed that it would be worth more as a non-PL. Furthermore, a DMPL designation only added $5 to the value of the nonPL variety.

RAD

<< <i>Here's your answer:

MS64 Pop: 2,040
MS65 Pop: 179 >>




Wow.........the scary thing here is that those 179 MS65's represent almost a half million of 'market capitalization'. Something to consider.....

mr1931S

"Wow.........the scary thing here is that those 179 MS65's represent almost a half million of 'market capitalization'. Something to consider....."

Which would you rather have for your half million? 179 MS65 1890-P's, 10,000 MS64 1880-S's or one 1893-S in MS65? I'm assuming each of these three groups would be available for purchase.

This one's a no brainer for me. I'd like the '93-S, thank you very much.

xbob

I know quality rather than quantity is a collecting virtue for some, but I like to buy the grade just below the huge price gap so I can afford more coins. Basically, I'm just a "value" collector (or a cheapass). I'm happy with it though. They're still darn good quality.

When I buy a new computer, I do the same.

mr1931S

"I like to buy the grade just below the huge price gap so I can afford more coins. Basically, I'm just a "value" collector (or a cheapass)."

What do you think of that price gap between an MS64 and MS65 1893-S?

BTW, I don't think you're being a cheapass. You're being smart.

"Nothing wrong with being smart."-words of a dealer who paid me 28 times face for my junk silver coins in 1980.

PutTogether

<< <i>I know quality rather than quantity is a collecting virtue for some, but I like to buy the grade just below the huge price gap so I can afford more coins. Basically, I'm just a "value" collector (or a cheapass). I'm happy with it though. They're still darn good quality.

When I buy a new computer, I do the same. >>




My sentiments the same. Though not as BIG as an exponential jump, its why i bought my icon coin in a 64.

CalGold

<< <i>Knowing that to "most collectors" $2500 is not chump change, I'd rather take my chances to profit from my two plus rolls of nice 1880's or one small or heraldic eagle Bust dollar. As for, "could be a hell of a coin," if the label on the PCGS label identifies the $2500 1890 dollar as the "katie bar the door specimen" I might have to rethink my position >>




Buying rolls of mid grade MS common dates is a totally different play than buying a single coin for a set. Frankly I think there is little upside in MS64 common dates since they are and will continue to be a dime a dozen--common is common and anything available in bag quantities is not going to become rare any day soon. Even in gem grade I think that many, especially 79-s, 80-s, 81-s, are overpriced at current levels. Try selling them to a dealer at sheet unless they are exceptional eye ball poppers.

Owning a nice bust dollar would be neat, but those have seen a big run up in price and many people who know that series think they could suffer from a price correction. As for a $2,500 93-s--you are not going to get much coin for your money. Lower grade Morgans just do not appeal to me. I would rather have a hole in my set than fill it with a low grade specimen. But it has a big following so it might hold its value and have upside potential, but the big action in Morgans is in the better MS pieces.

Now owninng an ms65 Morgan that is a low pop coin may seem overpriced to you compared with the same coin in 64-- that is why a pq 64 even at premium over sheet can be a lot of coin for the money. But take an ms65 coin to the bourse floor or put it in an auction and if its a really nice piece, one of the 10% that Andy was talking about, and the $2,500 sheet price will be an opening bid not the hammer or sale price. There are a lot of knowledgeable Morgan junkies out there with plenty of $$$ to throw at top pieces at gem and super gem grade levels. They do not need the PCGS label to say anything about eye appeal--they will make their own determination if its undergraded or a top tier pq piece within the grade.

CG