The dealer thought he had a MAJOR rip!

Barry

I went to a local show today and brought a 1874-CC (ANACS AU) dime I'm trying to sell. I see a dealer there who specializes mostly in Seated and Bust, from whom I've bought before, so I go to his table.

Me: Buying?
Him: Watcha got?
(I hand him the coin)
Him: Nice. Whaddya want for it?
Me: Twenty Five
Him: That's not a bad price... (he examines the coin again, and points out a couple of rare 187X-CC halves and dollars in his case)
Him: I have a few guys looking for one of these... (he reaches into his pocket and takes out some bills)
Me: You realize that's twenty five with three zeros?
Him: Oh, no. I don't have that kind of money to spend.
Me: You couldn't buy a VG for twenty five hundred these days...
Him: I'll have to pass. (as the dollar signs fall from his eyes to the floor...)

MadMonk

tmot99

Purple73

Hmmmm that is an interesting story Barry. I wonder what made him think that it wasn't 25 clevelands.

jdimmick

I love it, always wanted to try and pull something like that to see who is honest? Everyone around here locally knows me, so it would be hard to do now.

When I was younger, I did manage to take a group of 4 barber quarters around to local shops to see who was honest. Three were just plain ol circ, and the 4th was a circ 96-s. You would have been surprised at the number of folks wanting to buy them at silver melt.

MadMonk

Thankfully, not too many dealers like that....I think
I was set up at a show once and saw one dealer give a little old lady 500.00 for a technicolor note...he flipped it within a 1/2 hour for 5,000.00...I felt like puking.

ms70

Barry, you're back already? How was it?

mrpaseo

On a MUCH smaller level this also happened to me. I went into this consignment/flea market shindig and was walking around the booths. I noticed this guy selling this polishing paste. Now I know enough not to "Shine" my coins up but I wanted to see what this guy was all about. So I went up and looked at his "Shinned up coins", I have to tell you, they were so shinny they looked fake, so the guy tells me to pull out a coin. I reached for my Pocket Piece of which was a Silver American Eagle at the time... After trying to polish up the bullion, they guy looks at me and says, "I'll trade you this one for this" Pointing at a shinned up Ike. I said, "I don't think so" and walked away with my unshinned SAE.

If I ran into a dealer like this, I think I would spread the word on how he tries to take advantage of the little people. This just chaps my ass. This is why I do not carry a gun.

Barry

<< <i>Barry, you're back already? How was it? >>


Yes, back already. Got there 10:15 and was home by 11:30 (it's only a 20 minute drive for me).
Disappointing turnout. Several empty tables. The inch of snow that fell last night must have scared people off.

Merc

Barry, your post once again reminds me of my strong dislike for almost all dealers. This dealer was not ignorant of the going price. he had other rare seated material in his case. You can't buy any seated dime in AU50 for $25. Then you bring him a rare date and he thinks he can buy it for $25!

rhedden

That is a disgusting story. Rest assured that if you had sold it to him for 25 bucks, he would have spent the next 5 years bragging about how he did it to you. Thankfully, not all dealers are that way. You just have to learn who they are and spread the word.

Barry

Just to make it clear, he presumed the price was $2500, not $25.

ksteelheader

<< <i>I went to a local show today and brought a 1874-CC (ANACS AU) dime I'm trying to sell. I see a dealer there who specializes mostly in Seated and Bust, from whom I've bought before, so I go to his table.

Me: Buying?
Him: Watcha got?
(I hand him the coin)
Him: Nice. Whaddya want for it?
Me: Twenty Five
Him: That's not a bad price... (he examines the coin again, and points out a couple of rare 187X-CC halves and dollars in his case)
Him: I have a few guys looking for one of these... (he reaches into his pocket and takes out some bills)
Me: You realize that's twenty five with three zeros?
Him: Oh, no. I don't have that kind of money to spend.
Me: You couldn't buy a VG for twenty five hundred these days...
Him: I'll have to pass. (as the dollar signs fall from his eyes to the floor...) >>




Do you feel that you did not contribute to this??? You did say Twenty five with no other clarification.

Just an observation.

ksteelheader

<< <i>Just to make it clear, he presumed the price was $2500, not $25. >>



Why was that not in the original post?? So the original post was innacurate!

pharmer

This story puts me in mind of coinguy1's thread the other day about dealer/collector relations. I am trying to think of another business with the potential for such an egregious and intentional rip. It reflects badly.

ksteelheader

<< <i>This story puts me in mind of coinguy1's thread the other day about dealer/collector relations. I am trying to think of another business with the potential for such an egregious and intentional rip. It reflects badly. >>



Would it have read so bad with accurate info from the get-go???

ARCO

That is a great story, but in all honesty the process of negotiation went down just the way it should for a dealer. He asked what you wanted for the coin, and you responded with a price. In your example the discrepancy was pretty far off, but the concept is still the same. Why shouldn't the dealer give you what you were asking (if it had been the hypothetical $2500.00 he thought it was) for?

Dealers lay out their coins with their listed price (offer) right on the coin. We as buyers make rips all the time buying undergraded coins, varieties, etc. using our specialized knowledge and experience VS their general knowledge about many series. Buyers brag all the time about getting a rip and in fact every few months there is a post on these threads about who has had the highest rip on a price or percentage basis.

That is the art of negotiation, but your story is a classic! LOL

topstuf

Just another game of "coin stinkfinger."

Major problem with people who can't seem to utter the words, "hundred" "thousand" "million" "jillion"

An absolute ....setup.

Called "passive-aggressive"

And it's ....oh, so funny.

coinfreak499

mrearlygold

Soon as you said 25 I would have passed and that would have been that.

Why is it in an anacs plastic by the way?


Tom

mrearlygold

<< <i>Just another game of "coin stinkfinger."

Major problem with people who can't seem to utter the words, "hundred" "thousand" "million" "jillion"
>>










Kind of like "just a sec"?

Tom

Myqqy

Would it have read so bad with accurate info from the get-go???

Yeah, it still reads very bad........

tmot99

<< <i>

<< <i>Just to make it clear, he presumed the price was $2500, not $25. >>



Why was that not in the original post?? So the original post was innacurate! >>





<< <i>
Me: Buying?
Him: Watcha got?
(I hand him the coin)
Him: Nice. Whaddya want for it?
Me: Twenty Five
Him: That's not a bad price... (he examines the coin again, and points out a couple of rare 187X-CC halves and dollars in his case)
Him: I have a few guys looking for one of these... (he reaches into his pocket and takes out some bills)
Me: You realize that's twenty five with three zeros?
Him: Oh, no. I don't have that kind of money to spend.
Me: You couldn't buy a VG for twenty five hundred these days...
Him: I'll have to pass. (as the dollar signs fall from his eyes to the floor...) >>



I agree it wasn't 100% clear to me but after thinking about what was going on, Barry's post is perfectly clear. An 1874-CC dime in Fine is well over $2500. In the realm of the coin, his post is crystal clear. Without that knowledge, his post is misleading. But, he did mention the $2500 price. That's when "the deal" went sour.

tjkillian

Generally folks should know the price of their coins within an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. Sure, we may be off 20% or 60% but we are never off by 1000%. Since the both knew it was not $25.00, their was no confusion. The confusion is the high-grade of the coin.

Tom

ksteelheader

<< <i>Generally folks should know the price of their coins within an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. Sure, we may be off 20% or 60% but we are never off by 1000%. Since the both knew it was not $25.00, their was no confusion. The confusion is the high-grade of the coin.

Tom >>



A deceptive statement here is no different than a deceptive statement in public. People need to learn the business of being truthful and not assume that everyone knows of what they are talking about! And, this thread started out with a deceptive statement. Outright lie, to be correct! No damn excuse in the world will change that.

Barry

<< <i>

<< <i>Just to make it clear, he presumed the price was $2500, not $25. >>



Why was that not in the original post?? So the original post was innacurate! >>


Ken,
Gimme a break!

This guy specializes in Seated material and he knows the ballpark figure for the coin. He did consult his CDN, as well.

Suppose I had an AU 09-S VDB for sale was asked how much. I respond "one." Would you assume one dollar or one thousand dollars?

relayer

I'll give you 25 for it

ksteelheader

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Just to make it clear, he presumed the price was $2500, not $25. >>



Why was that not in the original post?? So the original post was innacurate! >>


Ken,
Gimme a break!

This guy specializes in Seated material and he knows the ballpark figure for the coin. He did consult his CDN, as well.

Suppose I had an AU 09-S VDB for sale was asked how much. I respond "one." Would you assume one dollar or one thousand dollars? >>




Who is assuming anything? If you're going to do a thread tearing anyone up, at least state truthful facts and don't assume chit!!!

Don't make you look too good!

astrorat

For those of us Seated fans . . . who was the dealer?

The reason I ask is that most of the Seated specialists I know are hopelessly honest and this dealer's behavior seems somewhat uncharacteristic.

Lane

Barry

Is there that much of a difference trying to rip a $25000 for $2500, as opposed to ripping it for $25?

The information has to be taken in the context of the situation - here's the key date of a Seated series offered to a Seated specialist. It's no different than if I offered an AU 1799 Eagle to Mr. Earlygold for 15. Tom sure knows how many zeros go after the 15.

ksteelheader

<< <i>Is there that much of a difference trying to rip a $25000 for $2500, as opposed to ripping it for $25?

The information has to be taken in the context of the situation - here's the key date of a Seated series offered to a Seated specialist. It's no different than if I offered an AU 1799 Eagle to Mr. Earlygold for 15. Tom sure knows how many zeros go after the 15. >>



I also do. But, most of the new posters on here lately don't! Just look at all the posters that have counts in the low hundreds. Do you think they know the difference? Just put some thought into how your facts will be taken before hitting the enter button!

Barry

So now we need subtitles for the thinking-impaired?

When people talk about Morgans and talk numbers (without subtitles), I pull out my price guide to help it make sense, as I don't know the difference between an 1895 and a 1921 (well, almost...)

Here's some sage advice for the newbies reading this:
Buy the book before reading the thread

DNADave

<< <i>Why is it in an anacs plastic by the way?
Tom >>



What's wrong with ANACS?


and BTW....The number of posts in this forum has nothing to do with the experience level of the person in front of the keyboard.



<< <i>I also do. But, most of the new posters on here lately don't! Just look at all the posters that have counts in the low hundreds. Do you think they know the difference? Just put some thought into how your facts will be taken before hitting the enter button! >>

ldhair

<< <i>Outright lie, to be correct! No damn excuse in the world will change that. >>


Did I miss something?

RYK

Boy, was I wrong. I assumed that you were asking 25 Greek Drachmas.

Sequitur

Barry, great post, and you're right on the money, so-to-speak. If it's the key coin to the series, and the person at the other end of the bargaining table is a specialist in the series, sorry, the dealer knew exactly what was going on -- no way he made a five-figure "mistake."

I wish I had video of the transaction.

Barry

<< <i>Boy, was I wrong. I assumed that you were asking 25 Greek Drachmas.

>>




A real collector would know Greece uses Euros now. You wannabe collector!

(edited for funnier response)

mrearlygold

<< <i>

<< <i>Why is it in an anacs plastic by the way?
Tom >>



What's wrong with ANACS?


and BTW....The number of posts in this forum has nothing to do with the experience level of the person in front of the keyboard.







No, what's wrong with the coin is the correct question.

And obviously is the correct answer to the second part.


Tom

topstuf

I still think it is a courtesy to state the price fully, exactly as you wish it to be understood.

RAW coins especially. You see a gorgeous commem and the guy says "three." It isn't in a slab and it could be a New Rochelle that ....might....go 68 ...but it's raw. And the guy can just as easily (though not as "cool") say "three hundred" or "three thousand."

No one has any idea of the dealer's knowledge. He MAY just mean "three hundred" and you get a rip.

We're each as greedy as the other, but why not simplify it?

It was much easier in the early '80s when the weight of the dealer's gold neck chains gave you the clue.
(sometimes the thinness of the perm)

RYK

A real collector would know Greece uses Euros now. You wannabe collector!

Actually, I am a wannabe world traveller.

mrearlygold

DNADave

<< <i>
No, what's wrong with the coin is the correct question.

And obviously is the correct answer to the second part.


Tom >>




Do you mean ANACS only grades problem coins?

mrearlygold

<< <i>

<< <i>
No, what's wrong with the coin is the correct question.

And obviously is the correct answer to the second part.


Tom >>




Do you mean ANACS only grades problem coins? >>








No and if you think you are getting in the back door you are mistaken.

DNADave

I'm new to forums, not new to coins. I have no idea what you are talking about.

ksteelheader

<< <i>So now we need subtitles for the thinking-impaired?

When people talk about Morgans and talk numbers (without subtitles), I pull out my price guide to help it make sense, as I don't know the difference between an 1895 and a 1921 (well, almost...)

Here's some sage advice for the newbies reading this:
Buy the book before reading the thread >>



Hell yes, thats the answer. Go buy a book so I can understand something that should be stated in the first place. Some of you people will go to any length to defend your deceptive ways! How damn sad!

Sequitur

Some of you people will go to any length to defend your deceptive ways! How damn sad!

Why are you carrying this crooked dealer's water?

If you go to buy a new car, and you tell the car dealer "twenty-eight," is that deceptive? Give me a break. No car dealer would think you meant $28 -- just as the coin dealer/specialist knew or should have known "twenty-five" really was $25K.

sadysta1

can we see the pic????

ksteelheader

<< <i>Some of you people will go to any length to defend your deceptive ways! How damn sad!

Why are you carrying this crooked dealer's water?

If you go to buy a new car, and you tell the car dealer "twenty-eight," is that deceptive? Give me a break. No car dealer would think you meant $28 -- just as the coin dealer/specialist knew or should have known "twenty-five" really was $25K. >>



How sad! We keep changing comoddities. I thought this was about a coin!

And I'm not carrying any dealers water. We don't even know who it is. Another item that was not divulged.

Anyone who knows me knows that I don't play word games. If I have something to say about someone, I'll say it and you'll know who it is that I'm talking about!

Why was the dealers name not mentioned? I can't tell you that!

Barry

Ken - I think you've been hit with the recoil of one of your rifles one too many times. You just don't get it.

If I ID'ed the dealer earlier, someone would have said I shouldn't have done that, so I didn't. However, given the requests, it was Ira Meltzer of Seaford, NY.

Also, per request, here's a pic. I've posted it before in some other threads:

UncleWiggly

Barry didn't do anything deceptive. However, the only way to prove it is to ask the dealer involved this question and flat out to his face. "When you were quoted a price of 25 did you honestly think that meant $2500 and did you know that the coin demanded a much higher price of $25K." The dealer just might not know anything about the series. However, the way Barry described the dealer's actions and words when he heard 25 tells me different.



Jerry

joeyuk

Sounds to me like the no cents racketeer nickel. It is gold plated and you
put on the counter to pay for goods. If the shop keeper gives you change
for $5 I guess it's shame on him. You never said it was $5.


I guess I'm in the middel of the road. Of course the two people concerned
understood completely but those of us that collect modern pocket change
need to think twice.