terrible porosity, '58 FE, unc. details? *pics added!*
ychange
Posts: 95
no pics yet, but some questions first.
is all over porosity common on early small cents, as i thought it was more prone to happen on older large cents?
also, is porosity a planchet defect, or poor storage/cleaning over the years, or some combination of both?
to the specific coin it's a small letter 1858 flying eagle, it "sort-of" has MS detail and probably was a good strike, no wear that i can see, even a wire rim around 40% of the obv. from being slightly off center. feather detail where i don't see feathers on EF-AU example i've looked at (pics on the web).
but,... it's horribly porous, the surface is rough and uneven, the fields are multi-layered as if they'd been in a battle with some corrosive and lost. no hope for luster, it is a clean(ed?) BN piece, but there is something oddly (sadly) pretty about the coin. it had an easy life for a while, as the detail will attest, but the end result is still an ugly duck.
no chance at a PCGS slab, but i'm wondering how badly would ANACS net-grade such a coin? would it be worth it? i picked it up for G-F money, and other than the ugly-ness, it's problem free, ha.
i'm very new to coins, and am starting small, with something i like, and figured i'd make my mistakes early, ha. (will try for some pic later.)
only other purchase was a 1957 FE from Rick Snow (thanks!), raw, VF-EF and fair for what i needed, was happy to find it in his discount bin.
now if he'd only come tell me this ugly/beautiful 1858 FE i have is a very unlucky PR, rather than a ruined and porous MS (net-VF?), ha!
thanks.
is all over porosity common on early small cents, as i thought it was more prone to happen on older large cents?
also, is porosity a planchet defect, or poor storage/cleaning over the years, or some combination of both?
to the specific coin it's a small letter 1858 flying eagle, it "sort-of" has MS detail and probably was a good strike, no wear that i can see, even a wire rim around 40% of the obv. from being slightly off center. feather detail where i don't see feathers on EF-AU example i've looked at (pics on the web).
but,... it's horribly porous, the surface is rough and uneven, the fields are multi-layered as if they'd been in a battle with some corrosive and lost. no hope for luster, it is a clean(ed?) BN piece, but there is something oddly (sadly) pretty about the coin. it had an easy life for a while, as the detail will attest, but the end result is still an ugly duck.
no chance at a PCGS slab, but i'm wondering how badly would ANACS net-grade such a coin? would it be worth it? i picked it up for G-F money, and other than the ugly-ness, it's problem free, ha.
i'm very new to coins, and am starting small, with something i like, and figured i'd make my mistakes early, ha. (will try for some pic later.)
only other purchase was a 1957 FE from Rick Snow (thanks!), raw, VF-EF and fair for what i needed, was happy to find it in his discount bin.
now if he'd only come tell me this ugly/beautiful 1858 FE i have is a very unlucky PR, rather than a ruined and porous MS (net-VF?), ha!thanks.
peace
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here goes an attachment. i might link to larger pics later, or better pics once i get some more camera time.
so, what would ANACS hit this, net-grade? i'm only looking for a couple VFs to start me out.
also wanted to know what causes this to happen to a copper coin? so i can avoid letting this happen to any other coppers.
unless this is something wrong with the alloy used in the planchet, then my question is, how soon after minting does this pitting and porosity begin to show itself?
thanks!
The small cents can corrode too, just like the large cents, but they are little less prone to do it because they are made of bronze (95% copper, 5% tin and zinc). The use of bronze improved the ability of the small cents to remain attractive while they were in circulation.
How do prevent this? Don’t store your coins in the ground. That’s how most of these coins ended up this way. They were lost and found as ground salvage.
Seriously, you need to keep copper dry, which especially important if you live in a humid climate, like my new home state of Florida. If you keep your coins under air conditioning, you should be OK. AND if you keep your coins at home in cold climate, avoid closets that have outside walls. The temperature can go up and down, which promotes the formation of toning and corrosion. I learned this the hard way with modern Proof sets back in the early 1970s.
coins like the one pictured. A good with honest wear and
surfaces would be a much better coin to have.
Smitty
in digging around the net i had thought this might be a corroded and cleaned up "ground score", it would explain the piece perfectly. nice to have this confirmed here.
**edit** my other thoughts were that it had been stored improperly in pvc for a long time, then cleaned. was thinking whoever did that would have been hurting, as it 'was' a nice piece, and pvc is only so old. leaning more to thinking it's a piece which probably hit the dirt in the late 1850s or early '60s, and didn't see the light of day for many decades.
of course in the future i'd stay away from corroded coins, but i'm not ready to spend the money for FEs in MS, i thought i'd work from the bottom up while still enjoying the pieces that i can pick up for pocket change.
only reason i asked about net-grade at all was regarding ANACS, as i know they are the most liberal of the "market acceptable" slabbers. not that anyone would buy this cent for more than a penny other than the sucker sitting at my computer right now (yes, me), but i'd still like any set of FEs i try to put together in plastic, even if not exceptional examples.
sad to think even a corroded/cleaned piece would get a body bag there, as i have seen worse, tooled, altered pieces in ANACS plastic, labeled as such.
anyways,...thanks all.
It doesn't look like the corroded stuff I dig. Ones I dig typically have fairly evenly distributed "pockmarks"across the surface. Generally, one side is always in better condition than the other, depending upon which side was facing up when buried.
Your coin looks more like a partially melted foil covered chocolate coin. It has odd slab-like globby surfaces.
Weak strike on defective planchet?
Post mint damage caused by coin being squished between cloth or other material?
Here is an image of a net graded fleagle that I own:
another reason i was thinking of going ANACS, is that i know any of the rarer pieces in the series i find i'd never buy in MS even if i could swing it, so i wouldn't mind ending up with a corroded, cleaned, slightly damaged, 'rarer' piece to fill a hole, kinda like that 58/7. (though it's way too cool for me with the clip 'n all.)
thanks for posting the cent, love it. after i took the pics of mine i was thinking MS detail *was* being generous and hopeful, would be happy with AU detail, net-,.. F? at that point, i surely can find better.
think i'll keep looking for a raw piece though, to fill the '58 slot.
enjoyed the input, especially the care for copper post, from billjones.
<< <i>My opinion (which doesn't mean much) is that you will not get an unc. details net grade with that coin from ANACS. It is way too corroded and way too harshly cleaned.
Here is an image of a net graded fleagle that I own:
This is a great example for beginning collectors. If a dealer offers you a raw Flying Eagle cent or copper-nickel Indian cent that has black or dark brown marks like this, be advised that the coin is corroded. As such it's worth a fraction of the amount that a coin with the same sharpness and NO CORROSION is worth.