I believe that the only way it pays to sell the set as a unit is when the ultimate fish needs most of the coins. Otherwise, I'd just auction the coins individually and reserve the keys to the max. No reason to insist on selling the set intact and forcing the ultimate fish to buy the things he doesn't want. He'll probably figure them for less than they would bring at auction.
BTW, my strategy won't work if I don't know how far I can push the fish on the keys. But if that's the case, I wouldn't know how to price the complete set. Which would bring me back to the auction plan, with lower reserves.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't know if its a mistake, but it seems a SHAME that it has to be possibly broken up. The best of the best deserves to be maintained INTACT IMO whether it be coins or any other collectible. What sorta befuddles me in a way is why folks who seemingly have the financial means to put together such a set would want/need to sell it. Surely they can't be hard up for $$$.
re bajjerfans comments...I am to feel "SHAME" because i want to sell something i purchased? let me try to un befuddle you..I bought em and now after about 10 yrs of putting em together i feel the sets have went about as far as they can go..so i am selling em..this seems to be my decision to make...As far as the money part..your comment how could someone be hard up for the money?? well all 8 of these sets are great, but a lot of money is tied up there...not that i have to respond to you but i dont have a special need for the money but some folks have sold sets because they do really need the money..glad thats not my situation..but i can sure understand how that might happen...I am looking forward to a new challenge..i bought most of the 200 or so coins in auction 1 coin at a time..i need a new area where i have a long trek...that trek for the best is my purpose..how and if i dispose of the coins is up to selfish (sorta old) me.. bruce scher
Mr Scher I wouldn't suggest that anyone feel shame for selling what they rightfully own; only that its too bad the set which is so unique can't or more likely won't be sold intact to someone who would maintain it for what it represents; kind of the best of the best. Now if it was a junky old set like mine with no hope of moving to the top level even tho the coins are out there it would be a much easier decision. You gotta do what works for you. Thanks for your thoughts and comments tho. BAJJER!
private treaty if you got the connections or know the buyers is the best way to sell or if you do not know the buyers then working with a dealer you trust and have a realtionship with who specializes in such is again the best way to go
Catalog just arrived with pink insert addendum - looks like someone will have the chance to buy the whole set after all.....opens at 225K or the higher of the bids plus 5%. Nice going TDN, Stewart, etc.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Tradedollarnut said>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this set worth more as a set than the individual pieces? Isn't it a mistake to sell the set individually at auction and give up the set premium?
Granted, most sets are only worth what the individual coins are worth, but I think there are exceptions. This is one of those exceptions. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What about the other #1 Registry sets that Bruce Sher has in this same auction ???????? I believe there are 5 or 6 more irreplaceable sets being auctioned. His Proof Barber halves, for instance, have a set score of 68.47. The finest possible set that could be put together is 68.59.
How come only the 3 cent nickels can now be bought as a complete set??
What if I wanted to buy the complete Proof Barber Half set ??
I think any All Time Finest Sets should have the option of being bid on as a whole. It does not mean all of these sets would sell as a whole, but I would like to see that option in place.
Dealers, in general, would probably not like this idea, as they would generally not bid on a complete set. They would not have the option of bidding on individual coins for their inventory.
The consignors of Finest known Sets would realize more money for the successful bid on a complete set and of course more money for the auction company.
Sets that are equal to or close to the highest known set grade are not that expensive to a lot of collectors. In fact, we are talking complete 3 cent nickel set or complete proof barber half sets being auctioned in two weeks, that just cannot be surpassed, as they grade so high, and as a complete set they average about $300,000.
We all know that some collectors on this forum buy 1 coin for more than that.
I just think it is a shame that more finest known sets do not have the option of being auctioned as a complete set. I mean, WHY NOT ? Why some sets and not all sets ??
<<<<<<<<<<When Tradedollarnut speaks, people listen! >>>>>>>>>
Hey!!!!! I suggested it first!!!!!!!!!!!
Take a look:
Thursday January 27, 2005 12:42 AM
May I ask the one series of questions that no one has asked yet in this thread? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Ok thanks, now I can ask. Weren't there a few auctions back in the mid 1990's including the Norweb auctions in which some sets were sold by the coin with a final lot representing the entire group of coins that serves as a overriding and superseding winning bid only if the group price was greater than the sum of the individual coins winning lot prices? Whatever happened to this auctioning approach?
Bruce: Does that mean Heritage will give me a commission and/or you will give me one of your prized circulated wheaties from your first collection?????
Too bad I am now essentially a type collector and/or just plain strange in my habits or I would have made a run at your entire collection.
I was very surprised that Heritage put a pink insert in there catelog saying the Whole Set could be bid at 5% more than individual coins (which I suggested earlier in this thread). However I don't quite understand the reason for a $225,000 minimum bid also. I guess some coins have reserves? Regarless it will be interesting to see if the complete set gets a premium as a set (it IS one of the PCGS' "all time finest" afterall)
Even if you were to figure the "key"-the 1884 at $50,000.00 (which I doubt many people do) and figure the other coins at moon money, I don't arrive at $250,000.00 for the set. So how could you say people are turned off? Obviously they have set a reserve that values the set at more than if it were sold seperatly.
In my opinion, any #1 all time finest set of coins, especially the sets containing 24 coins or less, of which there are many, should have the option of being bid on as a whole.
Bruce did it with the 3 cent nickels, and probably set a reserve on the whole set. I think he will realize more money, when the complete set is bid on and won by Tradedollrnut. I always thought the auction companys should have this option in place.
It is the same way they have been doing for years with proof gold sets. I bid on a gold coin once, that was part of a four piece matte gold set and won the individual coin, only to have someone a short time later bid on the whole four coin set and win that set. I was unhappy I lost the individual coin, but also happy that the whole set remained intact.
I don't see how Bruce Sher can lose here. His reserve for the whole set is most likely set at a profit and there is a possibility that anybody bidding on the whole set will bring that total higher.
Having the set auctioned as a whole would not change anything in my bidding practices on a single or even multiple coins in that set.
I think it is the dealers who might not like this "whole set auction", as they could not win auctions on individual coins for their inventory.
It would be a big plus if this 3 cent nickel set auctioned as a set at about $275,000. You can speculate all you want as to how much each coin would auction individually without the "whole set option", but at $275,000, I think Bruce Sher and Heritage would be very satisfied.
I wish the three Barber sets had this 'whole set option' in place, as they are also "irreplaceabl sets", but this option with the 3 cent nickels will be the "TEST" and if it proves to be a money maker, then I think more people will demand that auction companys have the "whole set option" in place, but of course only the irreplaceable #1 sets should be done this way.
One huge benefit to the consignor, who has reserves on the coins in a #1 PCGS or NGC registry set, is that when a bidder bids on the whole set, all coins are sold. How many times have registry sets been auctioned and some of the coins in that set did not sell ? If you have to pay whatever the buyback is ( 7% ? ) , it is a pain because you now have individual coins to sell and on just one $25,000 coin at 7% buyback, that equals $1750.
Comments
BTW, my strategy won't work if I don't know how far I can push the fish on the keys. But if that's the case, I wouldn't know how to price the complete set. Which would bring me back to the auction plan, with lower reserves.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
For some, the excitement is in the building of a set. Once it's done, the logical thing to do is sell and move on to the next set [ie: challenge].
bruce scher
I wouldn't suggest that anyone feel shame for selling what they rightfully own; only that its too bad the set which is so unique can't or more likely won't be sold intact to someone who would maintain it for what it represents; kind of the best of the best. Now if it was a junky old set like mine with no hope of moving to the top level even tho the coins are out there it would be a much easier decision. You gotta do what works for you. Thanks for your thoughts and comments tho.
BAJJER!
There was a sighting of Mr. Scher over in the quarter dollar OK-Corral!!!
Has anyone even thought that Mr. Scher's eyesight might be no longer 20-15 and could have regressed to 20-25?
that would require stepping up to a larger denomination?
YES..............................
private treaty if you got the connections or know the buyers is the best way to sell or if you do not know the buyers then working with a dealer you trust and have a realtionship with who specializes in such is again the best way to go
michael
Tradedollarnut said>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Isn't this set worth more as a set than the individual pieces? Isn't it a mistake to sell the set individually at auction and give up the set premium?
Granted, most sets are only worth what the individual coins are worth, but I think there are exceptions. This is one of those exceptions. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What about the other #1 Registry sets that Bruce Sher has in this same auction ????????
I believe there are 5 or 6 more irreplaceable sets being auctioned.
His Proof Barber halves, for instance, have a set score of 68.47. The finest possible set that could be put together is 68.59.
How come only the 3 cent nickels can now be bought as a complete set??
What if I wanted to buy the complete Proof Barber Half set ??
I think any All Time Finest Sets should have the option of being bid on as a whole. It does not mean all of these sets would sell as a whole, but I would like to see that option in place.
Dealers, in general, would probably not like this idea, as they would generally not bid on a complete set. They would not have the option of bidding on individual coins for their inventory.
The consignors of Finest known Sets would realize more money for the successful bid on a complete set and of course more money for the auction company.
Sets that are equal to or close to the highest known set grade are not that expensive to a lot of collectors. In fact, we are talking complete 3 cent nickel set or complete proof barber half sets being auctioned in two weeks, that just cannot be surpassed, as they grade so high, and as a complete set they average about $300,000.
We all know that some collectors on this forum buy 1 coin for more than that.
I just think it is a shame that more finest known sets do not have the option of being auctioned as a complete set. I mean, WHY NOT ? Why some sets and not all sets ??
Hey!!!!! I suggested it first!!!!!!!!!!!
Take a look:
Thursday January 27, 2005 12:42 AM
May I ask the one series of questions that no one has asked yet in this thread?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ok thanks, now I can ask.
Weren't there a few auctions back in the mid 1990's including the Norweb auctions in which some sets were sold by the coin with a final lot representing the entire group of coins that serves as a overriding and superseding winning bid only if the group price was greater than the sum of the individual coins winning lot prices?
Whatever happened to this auctioning approach?
Bruce: Does that mean Heritage will give me a commission and/or you will give me one of your prized circulated wheaties from your first collection?????
Too bad I am now essentially a type collector and/or just plain strange in my habits or I would have made a run at your entire collection.
Even if you were to figure the "key"-the 1884 at $50,000.00 (which I doubt many people do) and figure the other coins at moon money, I don't arrive at $250,000.00 for the set. So how could you say people are turned off? Obviously they have set a reserve that values the set at more than if it were sold seperatly.
I am positive people are bidding on the final price of the whole set....
Bruce did it with the 3 cent nickels, and probably set a reserve on the whole set. I think he will realize more money, when the complete set is bid on and won by Tradedollrnut.
It is the same way they have been doing for years with proof gold sets.
I bid on a gold coin once, that was part of a four piece matte gold set and won the individual coin, only to have someone a short time later bid on the whole four coin set and win that set. I was unhappy I lost the individual coin, but also happy that the whole set
remained intact.
I don't see how Bruce Sher can lose here. His reserve for the whole set is most likely set at a profit and there is a possibility that anybody bidding on the whole set will bring that total higher.
Having the set auctioned as a whole would not change anything in my bidding practices on a single or even multiple coins in that set.
I think it is the dealers who might not like this "whole set auction", as they could not win auctions on individual coins for their inventory.
It would be a big plus if this 3 cent nickel set auctioned as a set at about $275,000. You can speculate all you want as to how much each coin would auction individually without the "whole set option", but at $275,000, I think Bruce Sher and Heritage would be very satisfied.
I wish the three Barber sets had this 'whole set option' in place, as they are also "irreplaceabl sets", but this option with the 3 cent nickels will be the "TEST" and if it proves to be a money maker, then I think more people will demand that auction companys have the "whole set option" in place, but of course only the irreplaceable #1 sets should be done this way.
One huge benefit to the consignor, who has reserves on the coins in a #1 PCGS or NGC registry set, is that when a bidder bids on the whole set, all coins are sold. How many times have registry sets been auctioned and some of the coins in that set did not sell ? If you have to pay whatever the buyback is ( 7% ? ) , it is a pain because you now have individual coins to sell and on just one $25,000 coin at 7% buyback, that equals $1750.