Have Increased Fees Impacted Your Submission Decisions?

Sequitur

As you know, fees and minimums have increased at PCGS. Since we're almost one month into the new grading and shipping fee structure, has it impacted your modus operandi for submitting coins? If so, how -- sending in less, submitting to alternate services, or pulling coins you ordinarily would submit merely to see how it grades?

I'm not necessarily critical of the new fee structure -- if it lowers the number of PCGS-certified MS69 bullion SAEs, that's a good thing. But I don't think it will stop the boatloads of junk from getting slabbed, since the bulk submitters get a nice big break on fees. Thus it's the small, independent submitter who is most impacted by the new fees.

For me, it's made me think twice about taking borderline modern MS67-68 coins to the local dealer for submission, as I now question more whether it's worth it since a 66 grade = economic stupidity. And the other thought I have a lot of these days is, why not simply mail it from my house to ANACS and see what they think? I don't slab or crack out coins to sell or make a profit. I'm an accumulator of nice coins and rarely sell anything from my collection.

For those who do slab for profit, this has to make a dent on your returns, no? And your "mistakes," such as they are, have become more costly, yes?

CardsFan

Made me try a NGC submission but my grades still sucked, so the next batch will go back PCGS. I will be more careful with what I submit.

RYK

I am an infrequent submitter and plan to stay that way--fewer than ten coins per year to both services.

coinbuf

You've hit the nail dead on, the higher fees hurt the smaller submitter such as the collector. I put together two submissions before the end of 04 and those will be the only coins I plan to submitt to PCGS this year. It's ANACS and NGC for any other coins this yr.

Chris

K6AZ

Yeah, basically I am not renewing my membership in the collector's club, and after I get my last two coins back that have now been there nearly two months, I won't be sending any more in the forseeable future.

ms70

<< <i>Have Increased Fees Impacted Your Submission Decisions? >>



Yes- That coupled with the elimination of the 4 free gradings with the Silver Membership made me choose to not join the Collector's Club again.

Bochiman

Well, the new structure gave me the answer to whether I would renew my membership (which expired last April and I have been contemplating since then) or not.
The answer is NOT.

I think that CU marketing needs improvement and their marketing people are either slipping or not up to par.
They are getting beat (NGC getting the ANA bid), getting slammed for their actions (late on submissions and then jacking the prices), and losing memberships (it appears).

Wonder how good things would be for them if they had competent marketing?

zkcoins

All good comments. I personally will stick with them for now. I am planning a bigger submission of somewhere around 30 coins in a month or so. If I like what I see, I might stick with it. OW, I will head elsewhere.

Sequitur

That coupled with the elimination of the 4 free gradings with the Silver Membership made me choose to not join the Collector's Club again.

Forgot about that, thanks for reminding us.

Bochiman

See? I think that is a key (and, I have nothing against raised fees, as a business item...that's how they make money).
Those that make money from PCGS slabs may see less (due to fee increases) but it is a business call and many will stay.

For a collector, like myself, what are my reasons to slab anyway?

1) I like the protection
2) I like confirmation of the grade
3) I like confirmation on lack of cleaning
4) Easier to sell if I need/want to
5) Easier to catalog
6) Easier for my family to handle if something happens to me.


Approximately 1/2 my collection, but over 70% of the value, is in slabbed coins.
Does it matter to me what is PCGS vs NGC? Not really....just in the sets I put into the registry...and, I could just as easily do NGC registry sets.
(btw...I really don't like ANACS slabs...their grading is ok for what I do, I just don't like their slabs....and, I only have 1 PCI slab and won't do bottom dwelling other slabs (unless I liked the coin, got a great price, and then I would crack it out anyway))

So, what PCGS is doing is not likely to hurt their bottom line in the near future, but it is turning them more into a business concentrated on a smaller core group of people (dealers) and pushing actual collectors over to NGC more.

Now we see if NGC can continue to capitalize, or if they follow suit.

K6AZ

<< <i>Now we see if NGC can continue to capitalize, or if they follow suit. >>



If the past is any indication, expect NGC economy to increase to $18 in the near future.

FullStepJeffs

Yeap... I'm done. Unless I find a raw holy grail coin, after the remaining 4 free submissions I have left, it will be a long time before it happens again. At one point, I was submitting 50 to 100 coins at a time... now 4. I just wonder how it will affect the bottom line for PCGS? Isn't it a publicly traded stock?

Sequitur

Collector's Universe is indeed publicly traded on the NASDAQ. See investor workup.

Bochiman

Won't affect them much, initially, I don't think.
Decrease in collectors' submissions, but same, or more for dealers' submissions.

Potentially less getting graded PCGS could mean higher aftermarket prices. So, dealers have incentives to submit more.

If they didn't have a long backlog, I would think it would affect them earlier. They do have that backlog and until that is all but gone, I don't think it matters to them.

Wolf359

Not the fees. It's the time to get the grades. If something really needs grading that badly NOW, I'll use the $100 tier.

ElectricEye

I haven't renewed since the membership fee increase and probably won't until I have 8 coins to submit under the platinum level.

DrWho

No submissions for me, at least to PCGS. Maybe ANACS. Think I'll wait until the koin bubble pops, grading services LOWER fees to get biz, say in about 1-2 years for the bubble pop, 1-2 years before the lower costs. Am a collector, can little afford to carry all the folks that want a piece of the action, PCGS/feepay/USPS/paypal/buyers premium/sellers premium, et al.

nwcs

Not yet. My membership doesn't expire till mid next year. And I'm not a frequent submitter. But I'm already slowly transitioning from being a creator of slabs to being a buyer of them.

stev32k

I will not be renewing my gold membership, and have sent my last coin to PCGS. It's not just the increased fees - it's the slow turnaround, minimum submission number, and increased fees. I don't have very many graded in a year, and I don't want to wait until I have the five coin minimum and then have them take 4 or 5 calender weeks for a guaranteed "15" day turnaround.

seanq

I sent in two submissions just before the end of the year to beat the fee increase, and unless I happen to find a good coin for a quarterly free submission I think I'm done as well. It's not so much the grading fee increase as the way they've changed the Collector's Club tiers that sealed it. If I luck into anything worth submitting I'll just try to tag along with some of the bigger submitters here and pay the fees through them.

I got the distinct impression that with this round of increases PCGS was trying to position themselves as a dealer-only, bulk-only service. Why else would they make the Collectors' Club so prohibitively expensive, and increase fees on small-volume tiers like Error Coins so drastically? I think someone at CU realized they make more money on the big bulk orders, and now they're trying to eliminate smaller submissions that clog up the system for the big guys. If so, then congratulations are in order, as their plan is working to perfection.


Sean Reynolds

Barry

I submit just a few of coins per year. I've only submitted once to PCGS, as a result of the $25 special COllector's Club membership they had a year or two ago. I got my money's worth.

I'm expecting to receive two raw Draped Bust Dimes on approval within the next few days. If they're keepers, they'll go to NGC.

RYK

...and unless I happen to find a good coin for a quarterly free submission...

How much longer do you expect the quarterly free submission to be around? I am surprised this has not yet been axed.

Barry

The free submission is a good marketing idea. Like the Registry, it's an incentive to submit coins. Most folks won't just submit a freebie due to postage costs, so it stimulates additional submissions.

seanq

<< <i>...and unless I happen to find a good coin for a quarterly free submission...

How much longer do you expect the quarterly free submission to be around? I am surprised this has not yet been axed. >>



Heheh... good point. From my perspective, it only has to last until second quarter this year. Who knows, they might drive so many people out of the Collectors' Club it won't matter if they keep it or not.


Sean Reynolds