Counterfeit Ancient in ICG Slab

CIVITAS

Another reason to buy ancients from a reputable and KNOWLEDGEABLE dealer. I don't think the seller had any intention to deceive and cancelled the auction upon learning of the authenticity problem, but it could have been costly for a newbie who believes in the almightly plastic.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3365&item=3954614669&rd=1

Here's what the real deal should look like:







Notice the stylistic differences, particularly in the overall relief of the design and Pompey's hair. Flan shape and fabric appear to be unusual as well, but since it's surrounded by plasic, that important diagnostic cannot be viewed.

python

Josh, nice job. Good to see the seller wasn't out to cheat anyone.

Askari

How'd that ever get past ICG??? It's really a crude copy. I wonder if maybe it's a fake coin in a fake slab. That's been done before. There's even been carefully opened slabs with the original removed, a fake inserted, and resealed.

CIVITAS

Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but I suppose it's possible. As to how it got past ICG, they don't have any qualified ancient coin experts on staff. This has happened before, and will likely happen again unless they employ someone knowledgeable or give up slabbed ancients altogether.

Philip

This sucks

Thanks for bringing this up.

AboutRareCoins

Well, how it got through the ICG system is certainly a troubling question. But the comment that ICG does not have a qualified ancient coin man on premise might be a matter of opinion.
I know JP Martin, and I know him to be an expert on ancients as do many others in the indusrty. As a matter of fact it is his main area of numismatic interest and one of the reasons why they started encapsulating ancients, he knows the field and the competition wasn't servicing this area of the market.
Seems to me this one may just be pilot error. Happens all the time, even with the other major services.

This is my perspective on the subject,

Mike Billings

ajaan

<< <i>they don't have any qualified ancient coin experts on staff. This has happened before, and will likely happen again unless they employ someone knowledgeable or give up slabbed ancients altogether >>


They employ Allen Berman as a consultant. So the above statement is not totally accurate.

kieferscoins

Dang. Too bad the auction was ended. I'd bid on it!

Cameron Kiefer

CIVITAS

<< <i>Well, how it got through the ICG system is certainly a troubling question. But the comment that ICG does not have a qualified ancient coin man on premise might be a matter of opinion.
I know JP Martin, and I know him to be an expert on ancients as do many others in the indusrty. As a matter of fact it is his main area of numismatic interest and one of the reasons why they started encapsulating ancients, he knows the field and the competition wasn't servicing this area of the market.
Seems to me this one may just be pilot error. Happens all the time, even with the other major services.

This is my perspective on the subject,

Mike Billings >>



JP Martin's knowledge of U.S. coins is likely unsurpassed. It's unfortunate his service doesn't get more credit in the U.S. coin grading market (probably that rash of MS/PF-70s a few years back). I don't know that he is considered an "expert" by many in the field of ancient numismatics, but he certainly is not ignorant of the field. Mistakes will certainly happen when in business long enough, regardless of level of expertise. It is an unfortunate near certainty in the field. CNG pulled a number of Baktrian(?) silver pieces from their latest Triton sale because they were identified as transfer die forgeries after the catalog was published. I suppose the thing I was most trying to stress is that people have no more reason to believe a slab regarding authenticity than they do a knowledgeable dealer. Any reputable dealer should be willing to refund purchase price of a counterfeit ancient that they sell. I hope the same holds true for ICG regarding coins sold in their slabs that are not authentic.