"Ebay coin advertised as certified" is it legal?

Pherris

Hi,
I have a friend that recently purchased a coin on eBay (I had told him not to buy coins on eBay unless they are NGC or PCGS but he thought he was getting a deal) The coin arrived in a coin world holder with a label that stated the coin was MS65 Certified Genuine. Needless to say the coin he received did not seem to be a MS65. In the description the seller claimed that the coin seemed to be graded properly but indicated that the buyer should decide for himself and all sales were final. My friend has filed a complaint with Paypal and has not had an answer from them. I see many coins in these holders on eBay and stay away from them but I did wonder if the practice of grading and certifying coins in coin world holders is legal? I am of the opinion that is very unethical but I do not know about the legal part. Just curious. Thanks

AValde

Must be from centsles.

thebeav

Hello,
This one doesn't seem right. We have several attorneys on this board, perhaps one will weigh in. If they didn't state certified by whom, maybe it can slide. It may have been certified by the sellers mom.....I don't know.....
Sure would add this seller to my garbage list though......Hope it wasn't alot of money !!

Paul

klorineforbrains

Could we get the seller ebay id?

coinguy1

"Certified" doesn't really mean much of anything.

Based upon the information provided, it doesn't sound as if anything (even close to) illegal was done. The best possible out for the buyer would be if the coin were not genuine. Otherwise, it sounds as if the seller has the legalities in his favor.

Hopefully this will be an inexpensive lesson for your friend and a future warning about "all sales final".

RotatedRainbows

If he filed a complaint with PayPal and he stated he received a package then the case has already been closed, if you read PayPal's terms of service they do not cover receiving an item that is less then advertised. Their policy is to ONLY cover items that are not delivered, also sounds like the seller did not certify the grade as 65 but just certified that the coin is genuine.

291fifth

Grading, no matter what the holder, is just an opinion. As your friend has now learned, some people's grading opinions are much more liberal than others. In spite of all the talk, the coin hobby does not have a single grading standard in use...never has had one...and probably never will have one.

BillJones

One thing that I would point out to new collectors is that “certified” does not mean market acceptable. There have been hundreds of coin grades services over the years, and most of them pretty much useless and largely worthless when determining the market value of a coin.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Coin World is now marketing a holder that looks like a slab. It can be opened and closed manually and is not sealed like a real slab. But to the less educated, it resembles a certification holder. I’ve seen a number of these cropping up at coin shows down here in Florida. I would caution people. The Coin World “slab” is nothing but a holder. There is no real or implied “certification” connected with it.

mr1931S

I concur with coinguy1.

There is nothing illegal or unethical about using the word, "certified." If information is not given by seller in his auction about who is actually "certifying" the coin, the buyer should ask before bidding.

"MS65 certified genuine?" The seller, by conducting his ebay auction, in fact, has "certified" with ebay that his item is genuine and accurately described.

Seller "out," in case of a dispute, is to simply have a return policy in place. Don't agree with the assigned "certified" grade or don't think the item is authentic?

Just return item to seller in its original unopened, untampered-with-by-you holder as you received it and get your money back.

Keep it simple. Who wants to go to court and argue about who can and who cannot use the word, "certified," on ebay?

mr1931S

"One other thing to keep in mind is that Coin World is now marketing a holder that looks like a slab. It can be opened and closed manually and is not sealed like a real slab. But to the less educated, it resembles a certification holder. I’ve seen a number of these cropping up at coin shows down here in Florida. I would caution people. The Coin World “slab” is nothing but a holder. There is no real or implied “certification” connected with it."

Exactly. I would add these holders are inexpensive, excellently made and are of archive quality.

Learn how to grade for yourself. Buy some books about coins and actually read them. Look at a lot of coins before you buy.

Pherris

It would seem to me from the responses that apparently anyone can "certify" a coin and it is not illegal and definitely a buyer beware market. That is why I only purchase PCGS and NGC coins from sellers with return policies.

Russ

<< <i>Must be from centsles. >>



Wouldn't be centsles. He has a return policy and stands behind it.

Pherris,

Your friend is SOL.

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29

As long as they didn't lie about where the "certification" came from, there's no fraud.

Maybe the seller "certified" it themselves. It could have been "certified" by their three-year-old daughter. If they lied about *who* certified it, then it's blatant misrepresentation. But just saying "certified," while misleading and cheap sales tactic, is not illegal or against any eBay rules.

Intentional deception? Yes. Legal fraud? No. A reminder to caveat emptor? Definitely.

Maconlock

I was talking to a coin world rep at a coin show, that why coin world place there name on the holder so people know that it not a true Certified Business and anyone can buy the holders.

You may want to send coin world a Email, they may stop selling the holders to the person selling them on Ebay as Certified so it protects coin world,many get confused as they think there Certified by coin world.

Conder101

The holders aren't actually sold by Coin World, they are sold by their parent company Amos Press through another company, Amos Advantage. They aren't likely to stop selling them because they make money doing so. And if they did stop selling to this seller he would simply get them through another supplier.

There have been times on eBay when a seller has sold coins and made the claim that they were certified by Coin World. When Coin World was notified of this they contacted the seller and put a stop to it.

Sequitur

Mislabeled holders aren't Coin World's fault -- blame lies squarely with the fraudsters. The Coin World holders are a nice alternative for collectors and should be available to the public.

IrishMike

Don't want to come off sounding harsh, but didn't your friend ask himself "certified by who"? You don't need a license, a permit or anything else to say I certify. Sometimes the best lessons are those that cost us money. Good luck going after a seller base upon one's own lack of knowledge or stupidity. If this coin was sent in and came back graded 67 would his opinion of the seller's certification been different or would he had said to himself "what a rip".

TayTay

<< <i>(I had told him not to buy coins on eBay unless they are NGC or PCGS but he thought he was getting a deal) >>



These are usually the ones that require the most research (the ones that you think are a "deal"). Too bad your friend didn't listen to you. There are probably few here who have not learned the hard way, though, myself included.