Question about GSA Morgans

mtnman

Were there any 1879-CC or 1889-CC Morgans put in the GSA holders? A guy brought a bag
full of GSA dollars into my local coin shop this morning and we started talking about some of the
dates that show up, but nobody was sure about '79 or '89.

BillJones

There were a very few 1879-CC dollars in the GSA hoard. These coins are worth a premium if they are in the GSA holders. There were no 1889-CC dollars in the hoard.

Tassa

I thought that there was one 1889-CC.

nwcs

Digging around I found this statement by gsaguy. Maybe he'll make an appearance and answer in more detail:

"The gsa sold a total of 27,980 non-CC dollars in the gsa hardpacks for a minimum bid of $5.00 each. Unfortunately, no formal records were kept as to the actual dates and mintmarks sold.

Published data by Van Allen and Mallis lists a number of dates/mintmarks they believed to be in the sale. To some extent, their data is accurate but is by no means complete.

I remain in close contact with a number of dedicated collectors of these coins and the more advanced collections tend to have about 16 different dates and mintmarks. My personal collection consists of 26 different dates and mintmarks....but then, I've been collecting them for almost 20 years.

The 1887-P is one of the more commonly encountered non-CC gsa dollars along with the 83-O, 84-O, 85-O and a few early S-mints."

nwcs

And I think in addition that all the CCs were in there somewhere. Also a seated dollar as I recall.

Louis

Here's an interesting article by GSAGuy

slothman2000

Here is the thread in question....I had the same exact thought but was told otherwise from the gsaguy
GSA Thread

PTVETTER

There were 1879 cc dollars in GSA holders and I think I did hear of one in a GSA holder

TONEDDOLLARS

There were three dates that had only one coin in the sale. This infomation comes from Bryan Sonnier, during a conversation I had with him at FUN 2003. 89-cc, 92-cc and the 93-cc.

TD

DUIGUY

List of non cc gsa,
p mint 78,79,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,96,97.
s mint 78s,79s,80s,81s,82s,90s
o mint 81o, 82o, 83o,84o,85o,98o,99o,1900o,02o,03o,04o.
and 1878-7/8 1879s r1? 1880/9-s
THis list can be found if you search under non cc.
hope this helps

gsaguy

According to a Treasury Audit, 4,123 examples of the 1879-CC were found to exist in the Treasury hoard after public sales were halted. I don't recall offhand if that figure also represents the number that were ultimately sold by the GSA in the hard plastic holders. Only those deemed to meet GSA standards for 'uncirculated' were housed in the hard packs. 'Circulated' coins were sold in the soft packs.

Toneddollars is correct in that one each of the dates 1889, 1892, and 1893-CC were offered for sale by the GSA. If my memory serves me, I believe these were sold in one of the last auctions held (1980) and were placed in GSA 'Silver Dollar' holders as opposed to those that say 'uncirculated'.

DUIGUY, your information on the non-cc dollars is not totally accurate nor complete, but represents a pretty good approximation of the dates that have been identified to date.

GSAGUY

DUIGUY

Thanks GSAguy, do you happen to have a complete list hanging around ?

Conder101

I'm pretty sure the 89 92 and 93-CC dollars were sold in the earlier group of auctions. They were gone before the 1980 sales.

bruma

My VAM Encyclopedia (4th ed.) has an entire chapter with a wealth of interesting information about the GSA sales. Apparently the one each 89,92 and 93-cc went in the 2nd sale (Jun-Jul 1973) as part of the sale of "mixed CC". How would you like these prices? -- $16.55 for 1878-CC, $58.22 for 1890-CC, $53.85 for 1891-CC. The book says the mixed uncirculated went for $5.55 which would include the three rarities, but I have to question if that price is accurate.

I have spoken with a colorful dealer who claims to have had a table next to one where the dealer was offering the 89-CC "Many years ago." I was disappointed that he couldn't recall how much was being asked for it or its condition, but he remembered it was "a lot" and there was a sign proclaiming its availability, so the likelihood is that it was bought by a collector and it could still be in the GSA holder.

Edited to answer the question (duh!): 3,608 1879-CC's were sold at the average bid ($300 min. bid) that would sell them all: $478.39 in the 4th sale (Feb 1974). The remaining 512 Unc. 79-CC were sold in the "tarnished, scratched, errors" (read "toned, baggy, & mistrikes) in 1973-74. Note that these are the holders which say only "Silver Dollar" instead of "Uncirculated Silver Dollar"

Bruce

gsaguy

You could be right Conder on those 3 dates as I don't have my reference material with me. I'll try to find something on file in my computer to confirm that. For some reason, I keep thinking they were held until that early 1980 sale.....but I've been wrong many times before.

Bruma, I think you're mistaken about the precise category for those 3 rarities, and thus their final price. But rest assured, they didn't go for much more than that, especially if they sold in the early 1970's. They'd have likely sold for $15.00 each! It's my understanding that the 1889-CC GSA hardpack found a home somewhere in the $50K range. I had a dealer chasing that coin when it first surfaced a number of years ago, but alas, no luck.

The categories for the GSA coins consisted of the following:

Uncirculated - Hard Pack: These were CC dollars placed in GSA holders and labeled as such.."uncirculated". Minimum bids were set by the GSA for each date, near then-current market prices.

Mixed CC - Hard Pack: These were CC dollars that did not meet the GSA's minimum standards to be called unc, but were acknowledged by the GSA to likely be uncirculated. They say, "silver dollar" on the holder. In the early sales, they went for a minimum bid of $15.00. I believe in the later sale (1980), they went for $45.00. The three rarities were in this category.

Mixed Uncirculated - Hard Pack: These were coins from mints other than the Carson City Mint. Minimum bid was set at $5.00 and the 27,000+ sold out when first offered. They read "United States" at the top of the holder, as opposed to Carson City on the other two categories.

Mixed Circulated - Soft Pack: These included dollars from all mints (CC as well) that were deemed circulated by the GSA staff. Many were circulated, many not....especially the 1878-CC's. That's another story! Minimum bid was set at $3.00 each.

And yes, there was at least one circulated Seated Liberty Dollar in that last category.....1864 P is I recall, and it's part of my collection. I'll try to find a pic to post.

Finally DUIGUY, yes, I do have an updated list with all the dates KNOWN to exist in the Non-CC GSA Hardpacks. Many of us who are avid collectors of these coins have suspicions about the accuracy of the date data in the Blue Sheet. My personal collection includes 26 different dates/mintmarks of Non-CC Hardpacks.

GSAGUY

gsaguy

Found that Seated Liberty Dollar and am trying to link the pic.

GSAGUY

nwcs

I guess no question of original on that seated dollar.

bruma

gsaguy,
Of course you're right. The $5.55 price applied to NON CC dollars. The "mixed CC" category did not sell out in the 2nd auction. More "Mixed CC's" were sold in the 5th sale (April-Jun74). The largest number of "Mixed CC's" were sold in the 6th sale in Feb 1980 ($45). We know that the three single date representatives were sold in the Mixed CC category because they did not warrant their own and did not fit any other (typical gov't thinking), but unless someone can definitively say they saw one before the 1980 sale, I'm not sure how we could determine which sale included them............Bruce

IwantNonCCs

My list

16 dates verified (in NGC census)

1879,1883,1885,1886,1887
1881-o,1883-o,1884-o,1885-o,1902-o,1903-o
1879-s,1880-s,1881-s,1882-s,1890-s

2 other dates seen on ebay
1882-p,1901-o
1901-o up to $1225, not closed yet

1 date mentioned by GSA guy
1898-o


Questionable dates (15 maybes)
(Dates I have seen on other collector list, buy ad in coin world, and ccdn)
18787/8, 1881,1884,1888,1889,1896,1897,1898
1880-o,1882-o,1890-o,1899-o,1900-o,1904-o
1878-S

Also
1880/79-S (in NGC census)
1879 r78 (ccdn)



My worksheet for Non-CCs

Observation
Both 1903-o that NGC certified have hit ebay this year
One with Buy it now at $2300
Other went unsold, starting at $1700

Other then those 2, nothing went above $500, except MS66.

Seems like all the tough ones are hidden away. I have seen 16 diff on ebay. all
the dates NGC has certified, except 1890-S and 1902-o
plus the two dates mentioned above (1882,1901-o)

I have been collecting for 1 year. Have 12 diff. Don't know when i will find number 13.
Goal for this year is to hit 15 diff, after that I think I will be lucky to get one a year for the
next 10 years

Dave

gsaguy

IwantNon-CCs:

You can remove the following dates from your 'questionable' list as I have them in my collection:

1884-P, 1880-O, 1882-O, 1899-O, 1900-O, 1904-O, and 1878-S. I also have multiple examples of the 1898-O and 1901-O and at least one 1882-P, possibly two.

You've done very well in only a year's time to have reached 12 different dates/mintmarks. The average 'advanced' collection that I've encontered has about 16 different date/mintmarks.

The 1903-O is scarce, but not rare by any means. I'm not surprised those two you mentioned failed to sell at that price.

GSAGUY

RGL

Here's GSA's Seated ...



Great thread!

gsaguy

Thanks RGL, one of these days I'll figure out how to do all those linky things.

Oh, earlier in the thread I was asked if I was confident of the 'orginality' of that Seated Lib in the GSA softpack. I am, most definitely.

Along with the coin came a number of documents......hand-typed letters, post-mark-stamped enevlopes, etc all dated in 1973, if I remember correctly. In these documents, the original purchaser of the coin from the GSA had written to Numismatic News about the piece. They ran an article on the coin (a copy of the article was included with the purchase) including a photograph of the piece in the article.

GSAGUY

BTW, I've gone back and verified that the typewritten letters were not done in NewTimesRoman. Can't be too safe.

Mitchell

re: 1889CC GSA

Back around the 1993-94, Larry Abbot and George Eggleman(sp?) sold the only 1889CC in the GSA black package for some $32,500 or so.

I used to have photos (jpg) of it somewhere, unfortunately they seem to have been lost in the various computer migrations since then. I'll poke around and see if I can find the pics.

I've seen the coin. Since I was poor (just finished grad school), there was no way I could even touch it.

SIGH.

Mitchell

gsaguy

Mitchell,

I've got a photograph of it as well, but not on my computer. As for the timing on the sale of that piece, I think it was more like 1998 or 1999.

GSAGUY

IwantNonCCs

Thanks for the help, GSAguy.

Now I have a better idea what I am getting myself into.

That 1901-o closed on ebay at about $2500. Hope thats not the average price of the
last ten I find. Might have to rethink collecting.

But, I guess that premium is not outragous, compared to the going premium on 1890cc and 1891cc.

If/when they become popular, when the list becomes common knowledge, I don't think prices will be
coming down. After all, with the 1884cc having about 900,000 out there and the price at $180.00.


Thanks again for your help.

David

7over8

I am new to this forum, but I have read many of the posts over the year or so.

This one thread caught my attention because I know of a 1889-CC GSA holdered coin that was offered about 7 years ago by a Seattle , WA dealer on his website (the actual scan of the coin was shown, it was a 62PL, possibly 63PL in my opinion). Apparently, the coin was aquired by a well connected family in the 70's (what I was told) and was being offered at $45K . I know because I was offered the coin. I did not bite and the coin did get sold. Don't know who acquired it.

gsaguy

7over8,

If authentic, that would be the same coin. It came out of the NW, and the timing matches my recollection.

David, while I'm a bit surprised that the 1901-O traded that high, I'm not totally shocked. For most of the top 10 dates, there are far more buyers than there are sellers and they will therefore likely to continue to bring strong money as even more collectors join the field. JMHO.

GSAGUY

7over8

GSA GUY -

I bought many PL and DMPL CC's off that very same dealer in Seattle, he would ship me 10-15 at a time. I also dealt with a very nice dealer in Northern California, who apparently helped coax the 89-CC out of hiding. At 45K, it was very overpriced then.

I understand that there is a 92-CC and 93-CC as well, hopefully they will appear.

Rgds -
7 over 8

gsaguy

One has.

7over8

GSA GUY -

Are you aware of any of the 78CC NGC65PL GSA's (POP TOP with 4 coins extant) trading - and at what level? I personally own 1.

Rgds-

7over8

7over8

GSA GUY -

I also acquired a very nice original GSA dollar mint bag, marked as such and from the original treasury hoard bags, from the same dealer.

Rgds -

7over8

gsaguy

Nice snags all 7over8. I think that through the years I've accumulated something on the order of 30+ of those original CC bags.

I'm not aware of current pricing on the 78CC MS65PL. That's a powerful piece! Congrats. Where are they trading these days?

GSAGUY

7over8

GSA GUY -

The bag is real nice, but I paid a decent price for it 10 years ago. It completes a nice display that I have, of course only gsa related items (coins excluded).

Never heard of a NGC65PL 78-CC trading. I own 1. I bought the coin for $75 in the case.......of course, ungraded.

Rgds -

7over8