PCGS delays. What are you doing to protest?
RVDavis
Posts: 1,137 ✭
I am very distressed that I have not yet received my grades from PCGS. I submitted for regular service; they are now late. When I call customer service the CSR tells me the coins are in verification and it will be a few more days. The CSR apologizes and tells me I will receive certificates for free grading.
I am so frustrated with this organizaiton that on my most recent call, I asked the CSR to provide me with certificates for grading at NGC. He was offended. What sort of organization treats its customers this way and expects to remain in business? I think it is shameful and could not care less that they are overworked, understaffed etc. The website does say 'Guarantee' does it not? Throw out the silly certificates and refund the full charges. Until PCGS institutes such a policy, they are not really incented to improve operations.
What are the rest ofyou folks going to do? I am going across the street.
Rick
I am so frustrated with this organizaiton that on my most recent call, I asked the CSR to provide me with certificates for grading at NGC. He was offended. What sort of organization treats its customers this way and expects to remain in business? I think it is shameful and could not care less that they are overworked, understaffed etc. The website does say 'Guarantee' does it not? Throw out the silly certificates and refund the full charges. Until PCGS institutes such a policy, they are not really incented to improve operations.
What are the rest ofyou folks going to do? I am going across the street.
Rick
Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
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<< <i>What are the rest ofyou folks going to do? >>
I think I'll post a thread complaining about it.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>What are the rest ofyou folks going to do? >>
I AM GOING TO POST TO THIS THREAD IN ALL CAPITALS!
I've decided to excercise patience.
<< <i>What are you doing to protest?
>>
I am going to send more coins to PCGS!
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<< <i>I do not understand the sarcasm or poor attempts at humor. >>
Not sure, but perhaps it's because this dead horse has been beaten in to a quivering puddle over the last couple years.
Russ, NCNE
My protest, just sitting and waiting.
Ken
I paid for 15 day services and have not received that. Are you suggesting that since I am not in the business of coins, rather a collector for the love of the art, I should be treated as less worthy than a dealer? That is not an acceptable situation in my opinion. I paid my money with an expectation of a turnaround time. That has not been met.
Humor me please in answering this question: Why do people continue to tolerate missed dates and bad service? This is my first and my last submission to PCGS; I wonder how they stay in business.
I'm protesting by not submitting any more coins (actually I'm doing that to protest the price increase, but it works for any complaint)
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I'm going to send in more coins to PCGS! (Actually preparing a 43 coin crossover from NGC and ANACS to fill out my PCGS Registry Type Set a bit more at this very moment)
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>I paid my money with an expectation of a turnaround time. >>
No, you paid your money with an expectation that if the started turnaround time was not met you would be compensated in the form of free gradings. That's what the guarantee says. If they have refused to honor that, then you have a complaint. Otherwise, they have fulfilled their obligation under the stated policy.
Russ, NCNE
Yes, I am angry. Any time a vendor to whom I am paying money fails to meet a promise, it upsets me. What is strange is that this delay is quite common, yet everyone continues to submit coins and pay the fees. That is truly strange behavior. It happened to me once and I will not repeat the behavior, why do you and everyone else continue to send your money and permit the company to fail to meet the promise made?
<< <i>why do you and everyone else continue to send your money and permit the company to fail to meet the promise made? >>
Because a PCGS slabed coin sells well and makes the dealer or collector money if it grades high. It would be dumb to not take the delay and not submit in some cases.
Cameron Kiefer
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
"2 days guaranteed"
"7 days guaranteed"
"15 days guaranteed"
I am not a lawyer; I have paid for two sons to go to law school but I do not have to be an attorney to understand that the free grade certificate is a compensation for PCGS's failure to meet the guarantee.
I will send no more coins to PCGS. I guess those who choose to delude themselves that free grades in return for poor execution is acceptable will continue to keep PCGS in business.
Keep lining up folks, PCGS will continue to operate in this manner until market forces (YOU!) force them to change.
By the way, I would not mind if I was told the true amount of time it would take for grades. I am not angry about the delay, I am angry that the company makes a guarantee and fails to meet it. That is, in my opinion and experience, unprofessional business practice. I paid extra money for fast service and have not received that service.
<< <i>Any time a vendor to whom I am paying money fails to meet a promise, it upsets me. >>
They promised that if the coins were not graded in a specified period you would receive compensation in the form of free gradings. They have fulfilled that promise.
Hell, I WANT them to be late when I submit at the Regular level. I'll take all the freebies I can get.
Russ, NCNE
Ken
The delay is aggrevating. I usually avoid it unless the coin "needs" to go to PCGS, but I like their holders just fine. I assume you're aware that NGC doesn't offer vouchers, and simply states their turnaround time as an estimate. ANACS does pretty well, and guarantees certain tiers , but I don't recall what the remedy is if they're late. Frankly, I don't want vouchers or free grading from the services, but I think PCGS somethimes overstates their capability to turn submissions. Since it's possible to submit to NGC with just an ANA membership, and to submit to ANACS without any affiliation, I'd expect the PCGS membership fee covers the refund. Personally, I'd as soon it went away for all but the most expensive tiers. JMO
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Russ, you actually are totally incorrect. Read the website, the submission form.
"2 days guaranteed"
"7 days guaranteed"
"15 days guaranteed" >>
Actually, you are incorrect. All guarantees specify specific remedies in the event of performance failure. NO guarantee says or specifies that performance failure will never happen, only that in the event it does the specified remedy will be forthcoming. As long as it is, the obligation has been fulfilled.
Is this concept really that difficult for you to grasp?
Russ, NCNE
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Perhaps, us long-time submittors are use to late deliveries, we're not as sensitive as you.......or we just see a bigger picture.....
The way I see it RVDavis, there's nothing you can do about the lateness - you can decide to longer submit but you have some freebies - do you not want to use them? Other services MIGHT be quicker but there's always a value determination to make. Assuming the coin grades MS67 at either service, you may find its value is enhanced in the PCGS holder (or it may not be the same). You always have the right to do what you please with you coins and with whatever 3rd party grader you feel best meets your needs....be that timeliness, value or whatever.
Whatever you decide to do, I do wish you best of luck and hope your expectations are fully met!
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
<< <i>Russ, I have grasped it >>
No, you haven't. And, sadly, you're the only one here who doesn't realize it.
Russ, NCNE
I buy a muffler from Midas. The muffler is installed according to the guarantee. The muffler develops a hole five years later, I return to Midas and request a new muffler. I am provided the new muffler not under the guarantee of service but under the warranty.
I operate outsourcing data centers for a living. I guarantee to my customers that their systems will be availalbe 99.999% of the time. That is the guarantee. If I fail to meet that measure of performance, the client has recourse through the warranty to certain compensation.
PCGS guarantees performance in certain timeframes. If the company fails to deliver, the compensation is the free grade. That does not remove or obviate the simple fact that PCGS failed to meet the advertised guarantee for which PCGS charges a premium fee.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The muffler develops a hole five years later, I return to Midas and request a new muffler. I am provided the new muffler not under the guarantee of service but under the warranty. >>
That's a distinction without a difference. Warranty, guarantee, for all practical purposes - and particularly in the specific example of grading turnaround time - they are the same.
<< <i>If I fail to meet that measure of performance, the client has recourse through the warranty to certain compensation. >>
Which is precisely what PCGS has done. Duh.
Russ, NCNE
15 days is Business days, not calender days...
On the Collectors Club Submission Form...find the following at the bottom of the invoice:
12. "Note all terms and conditions are subject to change. Turnaround times do not include mailing time & reflect business days."
13. "Days during which PCGS is performing on-site grading are not considered business days. Please call customer service or visit
www.pcgs.cm for the latest show schedule."
On the reverse of the CC Submission Form...find the following, under "PCGS Grading Terms and Procedures"
1. "PCGS will endeavor to grade coins within the time frame, if any offered as part of a PCGS grading service. However PCGS will have no
liability whatsoever to the customer for incidental or consequential damages due to PCGS's failure to grade any coin within any
time frame. All days are business days."
good luck
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
2. I am aware of the FUN show blackout.
3. I am not claiming compensation; I am inquiring as to how other individuals handle this situation.
It is obvious that I have touched a nerve.
<< <i>try calling and/or e-mailing... >>
He did call, and when he was told he'd be getting free grading certificates he asked if they could be for grading at NGC. Obviously, he attended Dale Carnegie.
Russ, NCNE
Mr. Davis I understand completely what you are saying about guarantees, warrantie, etc.. PCGS time turnaround is based on the above mentioned items and those submitting coins for any length of time have come to understand that the guarantee should not be taken to seriously. It has nothing to do with law or anything else but the reality of the situation there at PCGS. In a humorous way and sometimes in a non-humorous way folks have tried to point this out.
I've quit submitting coins period so I have no dog in the fight. If you have the expectations of submitting coins and having them returned every time within the so called guarantee then I have to tell you that the reality is you will be disappointed. For those of who you who want to continue to gang up on a new member who was not aware of the reality or just want to argue its obviously not going to serve a purpose. Information seems more to the point than confrontation in this thread.
Thank you so much for the reasoned and logical response. I had not intent of starting a catfight but I guess on the internet, one takes what one gets.
I am a more educated person now and I will move forward with what I have learned. The title of this thread is "PCGS delays. What are you doing to protest?" That was a sincere desire to discover what others do in this situation; some have chosen to ridicule my complaint. Some have chosen to point out that I am threatened with banishment for even registering my particular complaint. A few have offered rational responses to the questions I posed.
PCGS dominates this market. PCGS choses to offer delivery dates that are repeatedly unmet. What an unusual way to grow a business, but grow it does. Fascinating to me.
Thank you for the rational discourse.
Rick Davis
As has been said, you are beating a dead horse. Most everyone knows that the times aren't being kept.
To protest it, people post threads about it (and get flip replies from people that have already been talking about it for months/years).
To protest it, never submit again. Sell your free submissions to someone else or just toss them away, but you are not bound to submit to them.
Submitting to PCGS tells me that you aren't a "newbie" into the collecting field with slabs. If that is the case, I would be VERY surprised if you didn't know they were slow and not meeting many people's expectations and times.
So, you are bitter.
However, to take out your bitterness on the support person who took your call, by telling them you wanted them to give you free submissions to their major competitor, was very childish. You win no sympathy votes there. That person is NOT the one holding up your submission (though, they probably do wish they could delay it for a few months now).
To whine about a "guarantee" and the remedy if not met is also childish. Why don't you start a certifying/slabbing company and get it into one of the top 3 and then figure out what needs to be done. Some will meet it (NGC) and some will not (PCGS). However, I don't think you have a grasp at the volumes involved or the issues around everything.
You have sour grapes. You are acting childish. Protest it by never submitting to them again. Never buy another coin in a PCGS slab. And, never having anything to do with them again.
Or, try being polite when you call them and not trying to be a d*ck on the phone. I've been customer service before. People that threatened me with a competitor or plain yelled at me seemed to fair worse than those that complained but were polite....hmmm..imagine that.
btw....if you feel they are so screwed up about the word "guarantee" maybe you should just sue them? I am sure they hadn't had their attorneys make sure that the wording was ok, right? Good thing you aren't an attorney but 2 of your kids are....you can probably get them to do it pro bono for you, right? I am sure they see that it is an open and shut case, right?
You do realize there are a lot more things in life to worry about and get steamed over, right?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>To meet those guarantees either submissions will have to be reduced or more graders hired. >>
Despite David Hall's claims, I don't think the problem is a lack of graders. I think it's organizational failure. One indication is the utterly random time frames for completion of orders. They've repeatedly claimed they use a FIFO system, but anybody who pays any attention knows that's crap. Orders that arrive at the same time in the same tier complete weeks apart; orders that arrived weeks after others are completed first.
NGC is doing at least the same volume and I'm getting less than a month or less door-to-door service. More importantly - and an indication that they have the necessary systems in place - their service is consistent. If I have orders that arrive a week apart, they get done a week apart.
Russ, NCNE
When appropriate, I will send to PCGS... when appropriate, I will send to NGC... and when appropriate, I will send to ANACS or SEGS...
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