Dealers have to make money, so if you don't want to utilize the level playing field of ebay, then you can expect to build them up with some profit margins. Peoples time is worth money, and some choose to just sell to a dealer and be done with it. this is the beauty of ebay. You don't have to sell it for half to a dealer, thus your not down 50% on your investment the moment you buy it. In a way, i'm actually surprised the card show attendance hasn't dropped off and all the dealers just open up ebay stores or websites. I also have brought in a few graded older cards worth a few hundred dollars and essentially the theme is "I'm not looking to buy I'm here to sell... I'm not looking to trade, i'm looking to sell" "gotta pay for traveling and the table first" And this is fine, its all a business.
This car sales analogy is pretty good, since it is a parallel. Also like the car dealers that automatically add all the crap to inflate the price, some dealers do this as well (not naming names). I asked a car salesman (after I bought the car) why they do this ignorant marking up and he told me "For 95% of the cars we sell, we will knock it right off the top so its free if you negotiate, but... you would be amazed at the stupid money that comes in here" He reiterated that many people simply don't negotiate, so the dealer is smart to simply inflate the price. Still a touch unethical, but what about money is ethical?!
re: "i'm actually surprised the card show attendance hasn't dropped off and all the dealers just open up ebay stores or websites."
That is exactly what has happened, card show attendance has dropped off, but the dealers still love the shows, so they can buy cards from the unwary, and then put them on ebay stores and websites.
I find it so amazing that people still just bring in old cards worth a bunch of money to the shows. You would think that if they take the time to drive to a show, pay for parking, pay to get in, that they would take the time to do a simple search and find out what its worth. all the shows i've been to I rarely if ever see anyone selling anything. In chicago I do see Mr. Mint at every show front row center. He just sits there, never seems to have anything, or buying anything. Just sits there at an empty table looking all smug and bored. Does this guy sell on ebay? Does he have a store? Anybody have any details on how he gets the hook up on his "finds"? Or is it indeed all from the shows?
I can only speak from the Pittsburgh Roebert Morris Sewell Center show that Mr. Mint attends every time. I've got to know him and chat with him and he — to me — is friendly. As soon as I see him, I say, "Well show me the good stuff you ripped off today." He smiles and says he didn't get much, but then, again, he pulls a few albums, or boxes of vintage cards from under his table. Now, I'm not going to defend him, but one show, we were standing there and a guy brings in a full thick album of 1955 Topps, he flipped through the album, offered the guy $5000 and the guy took it. Without hesitation, Mr. Mint walked over to another dealer two aisles away, and said I paid $5000 for this, go through it and tell me what you want, and leave me the rest. He tossed the binder down and walked away, never giving a care as to what would happen to his $5000 investment. I've seen him buy a lot of stuff, and he (everytime) gives an offer and says it will stand. The people walk off with their stuff and usually they come back to him to sell, because all the other dealers offered less. I had a box of Wheaties cards trimmed off the back of the boxes and he offered the highest price in the show. When I sold them to him, he said, "They will be gone tomorrow." I think he sells a lot of stuff as soon as he buys it.
However, heh, heh, I bet he wishes he had all those '52 Topps Mantles back that he bought and sold . . . before PSA became popular!!!!! He would have made ten times the money.
Hi Guys Billa, Koby, Goudey - I agree with all the statements - I am sensitive to the fact that a business has to make a just and fair profit and that there are good guys out there. But as we all know, if Bill Goodwin, e.g., says to someone: how much you want? And the guy asks low, he's not going to give you more.
I don't go to shows anymore - I posted before that I went to the tristar show in Houston - in general, everything was over priced - autos, pics, graded cards, quality raw etc. I found a lot of people to be very friendly but overall, I don't need to go. You can find everything at your "fingertips" and at a better price.
I would imagine if you shopped with the same guys year after year, when they see you at a show, they will give you a better price - the shame is that the people to people contact at the show is fun.
The people that are discussing stuff here in this forum have been really knowledgable and fair minded - this and some of the other discussions have really been good!
and that's a great point. Shows are a fun place to be. Now, I've joined most everyone in beating up on dealers, but when you mentioned talking to them, I have to admit that I am the best in beating up on them too. Many years ago, I started my set of '33 Sport Kings. One (poor) dealer had five of them and by the time I got done with him, I had all five of them in my possession, and I didn't spend a penny, I traded for a handful of Puckett and Gwynn rookies. But, you know what, after I convinced him he had a good deal because all the kids wanted the Pucketts and Gwynns, he said, "I couldn't sell those (meaning the '33 Sport Kings) anwyay."
Point is: shows provide a fun day out to enjoy the hobby, and, I guess, God Bless the dealers for providing the opportunity for us to do it!
I agree, I go everytime its in chicago. And always get SOMETHING and i'm a vintage collector only. It is nice to see and hold these cards in your hand. Grab a overpriced hot dog stand and just feel the buzz. You also get glimpses of the players signing as well.
If its a major show, it is pretty sweet. I'm hoping the national is good. Never been to one before.
People still bring stuff to shows - it's incredible what you see. At a recent show, a dealer showed me what "just walked in". A beautiful near set of 1968 Topps baseball (missing all the big stars of course, I'm sure he pulled them). I had to buy the set from him, I haven't seen anything that nice in a long, long time - but I know he creamed the poor guy that he bought it from.
Comments
This car sales analogy is pretty good, since it is a parallel. Also like the car dealers that automatically add all the crap to inflate the price, some dealers do this as well (not naming names). I asked a car salesman (after I bought the car) why they do this ignorant marking up and he told me "For 95% of the cars we sell, we will knock it right off the top so its free if you negotiate, but... you would be amazed at the stupid money that comes in here" He reiterated that many people simply don't negotiate, so the dealer is smart to simply inflate the price. Still a touch unethical, but what about money is ethical?!
good topic guys,
GG
re: "i'm actually surprised the card show attendance hasn't dropped off and all the dealers just open up ebay stores or websites."
That is exactly what has happened, card show attendance has dropped off, but the dealers still love the shows, so they can buy cards from the unwary, and then put them on ebay stores and websites.
You got it,
Bill
GG
However, heh, heh, I bet he wishes he had all those '52 Topps Mantles back that he bought and sold . . . before PSA became popular!!!!! He would have made ten times the money.
Billa, Koby, Goudey - I agree with all the statements - I am sensitive to the fact that a business has to make a just and fair profit and that there are good guys out there. But as we all know, if Bill Goodwin, e.g., says to someone: how much you want? And the guy asks low, he's not going to give you more.
I don't go to shows anymore - I posted before that I went to the tristar show in Houston - in general, everything was over priced - autos, pics, graded cards, quality raw etc. I found a lot of people to be very friendly but overall, I don't need to go. You can find everything at your "fingertips" and at a better price.
I would imagine if you shopped with the same guys year after year, when they see you at a show, they will give you a better price - the shame is that the people to people contact at the show is fun.
The people that are discussing stuff here in this forum have been really knowledgable and fair minded - this and some of the other discussions have really been good!
thanx
your friend
Mike
and that's a great point. Shows are a fun place to be. Now, I've joined most everyone in beating up on dealers, but when you mentioned talking to them, I have to admit that I am the best in beating up on them too. Many years ago, I started my set of '33 Sport Kings. One (poor) dealer had five of them and by the time I got done with him, I had all five of them in my possession, and I didn't spend a penny, I traded for a handful of Puckett and Gwynn rookies. But, you know what, after I convinced him he had a good deal because all the kids wanted the Pucketts and Gwynns, he said, "I couldn't sell those (meaning the '33 Sport Kings) anwyay."
Point is: shows provide a fun day out to enjoy the hobby, and, I guess, God Bless the dealers for providing the opportunity for us to do it!
Your friend,
Bill
If its a major show, it is pretty sweet. I'm hoping the national is good. Never been to one before.
GG