Why does NGC allow PCGS coins in their registry sets?

Crazy4Coins

Why? Why don't they allow other third party grading companys' holders in?

It must have something to do with standards right? Are they saying that PCGS coins are graded accurately and meet NGCs' standards?

If so, then all PCGS coins should crossover. I know I'm beating an old bush, but seems like a double standard, when your coins don't cross,at least.

Randy

nwcs

I think they figure they will get more participants this way. It's a marketing gimmick that kind of works.

BillJones

Historically PCGS has slabbed far more coins than NGC. Therefore to get more people in their registry, NGC decided to allow PCGS coin owner in on their product. Since PCGS and NGC are the leading grading services, allowing both brands in the NGC registry does preserve the credibility of their survey.

Quite frankly I would never participate in the PCGS registry so long they allow only their products to be registered. PCGS is the better service when it comes to modern coins, but when it comes to coins that date from the colonial period to about 1950 or so, the two services are on an equal footing. I buy coins, not slabs for my collection. Therefore if I see coin in either holder that works for my collection or my business, I buy it. I don’t care if it’s in a PCGS or NGC holder.

I don’t care for the “PCGS coins only” attitude one bit. In my view it makes their registry less credible and less desirable.

RotatedRainbows

<< <i>Why? Why don't they allow other third party grading companys' holders in?

It must have something to do with standards right? Are they saying that PCGS coins are graded accurately and meet NGCs' standards?

If so, then all PCGS coins should crossover. I know I'm beating an old bush, but seems like a double standard, when your coins don't cross,at least.

Randy >>



Using your logic (since PCGS allows PCGS coins in its registry) EVERY PCGS coin you crack out and send in to be regraded will ALWAYS come back at the same grade never lower. I would not suggest doing it as you have zero chance of getting them all back in the same grade holder, ask anyone who has submitted a coin a few times and received two or even three different grades on the same coin (including a BB or two).

relayer

Because PCGS doesn't allow NGC coins. It's their way of saying

IrishMike

They have to verify the coin exists or in the grade you enter etc., you can't do that with other TPG's other than NGC and PCGS.

MadMonk

I dunno. Although I like the idea of two differant approaches.

Fairlaneman

<< <i>but when it comes to coins that date from the colonial period to about 1950 or so, the two services are on an equal footing. >>



This part of the statement could be true now. What newer collectors should remember is that the statement does not apply to the past NGC efforts within many different series.

Ken

Coinhusker1

<< <i>Because PCGS doesn't allow NGC coins. It's their way of saying >>



Also, keeping NGC coins out of the PCGS registry keeps the revenue flowing from NGC crossovers!

badger

It's really no skin off NGC 's back to allow PCGS into their registry. The have an extra grading designation with the "Star" rating which gets extra points for NGC coins. I believe the Star is for extra eye appeal. While a PCGS coin could have the same eye appeal within the same grade, the NGC coin will get higher points due to the star.

Therefore, the NGC registry gives extra consideration to those with brand loyalty to NGC. I doubt that you could maintain a top ranked NGC registry set without STAR coins. So, you can play in the registry with PCGS coins, but you will never sustain a top set. Good marketing though, because then you would start buying NGC coins or cracking yours out to go to NGC. Sound familiar?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>If so, then all PCGS coins should crossover. >>



A repeat I know but according to many here PCGS graded coins don't always "crossover" at PCGS.

commemguy

I attended an NGC Registry dinner while at the FUN show, and there was a brief discussion on this topic. NGC's position, as I understand it, is that they created their registry for the benefit of collectors. They determined that the vast majority of collectors of high quality certified coins buy both NGC and PCGS coins. Making an inclusive registry allows more collectors to participate, and it conforms to their perception of how collectors are actually building their sets, allowing them to buy the coin and not the holder.

tmot99

I posed a question for HRH in the Q&A forum on this topic. It allowed those with "other grading companies" to list in the registry but give them zero points towards their ranking. It seems strange that PCGS gives you free submissions so that you can crossover or upgrade your coins, but the set needs to be 90% complete before this kicks in. Why not allow the 10% to be shown but not given any weight in the ranking.

I was very surprised to see HRHs comments. It was basically they won't recognize that other holders have high grade coins in them. He felt this would dilute the efforts of strictly PCGS collectors. I don't know how that would happen if the other company's coins were gien zero weight towards ranking or set completion.

I'ld be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this option either in a new thread or by PM.

marcmoish

rating which gets extra points for NGC coins. I believe the Star is for extra eye appeal.

I think the star thingy is DUMB and glad PCGS did not follow. WHile I've gotten alot more sympathetic to NGC lately, I must admit I've seen more then enough NGC * coins that were totally underserving. Meaning, to go even further, I don't need someone to tell me said coin is PQ or not, its generally obvious to all concerned.




Marc

IrishMike

You might think the * was dumb but it was a brilliant marketing move by NGC along with allowing PCGS graded coins in their Registry. In a business where two companies are going head to head for leadership and the perceived advantage that one had over the other is dissipating the one company who outmarkets the other will win.

The * has caught on not only with new collectors but those assembling world class sets. Just look at the prices these coins are bringing in auction. Collectors like yourself who don't see this change and continue to criticize NGC will someday wonder what happened. Time to wake up and see what is happening.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Historically PCGS has slabbed far more coins than NGC. Therefore to get more people in their registry, NGC decided to allow PCGS coin owner in on their product. Since PCGS and NGC are the leading grading services, allowing both brands in the NGC registry does preserve the credibility of their survey.

Quite frankly I would never participate in the PCGS registry so long they allow only their products to be registered. PCGS is the better service when it comes to modern coins, but when it comes to coins that date from the colonial period to about 1950 or so, the two services are on an equal footing. I buy coins, not slabs for my collection. Therefore if I see coin in either holder that works for my collection or my business, I buy it. I don’t care if it’s in a PCGS or NGC holder.

I don’t care for the “PCGS coins only” attitude one bit. In my view it makes their registry less credible and less desirable. >>



As in the past, I totally (though respectfully) disagree with just about everything you've written here.

In my experience (which is considerable) and my research (which is extensive) I see no basis for the comment that the two services are on an equal footing and therefore no reason for PCGS to 'recognize' NGC grades in their registry.

If PCGS allowed NGC coins into the registry, they would, exactly as DH stated in his Q&A response, dilute the value of their standard.

marcmoish

MIke,

allowing PCGS coins in their registry was a great idea and I applaud the many good things about NGC. Now more than before, and am actually toying with the idea of listingf my sets@ NGC too etc. I hear what you're saying but I believe many feel the same about the star. I was not trying to knock NGC again per se - just that a coin stands on it's own merits. I really feel it useless and I guess dumb to have a star stating such. besides what is nice to one....yada yada, and the fact we both have probably seen more than enough star NGC that were undeserving.
Not to say PCGS is immune - that's not what the issue is here - buy the coin and not the holder - I was merely posting a comment about the star. I guess I may not know how well the "star" designation is or has done for them perhaps.

take care,

Marc

tmot99

I'm still not getting how allowing NGC graded coins to be listed in the registry with a zero weight/value would dilute the value of their standard. It's not stating that NGC grades are equal in any way to PCGS. That's a completely different debate. My idea allows users to show that their set is complete, post pictures, etc. You know, SHARE their love of this hobby we have in common and the great coins that they have acquired. If someone has a complete collection of a series all in NGC holders and puts it in the registry, they are ranked at the bottom because it would have 0% completion. Those at the top could see that they may have some serious competition for the best set when the NGC set gets crossed.

By the way, I also think ANACS shoud be included.

greymars

Personally, I am building my Registry set on both PCGS and NGC websites.

IrishMike

In the short term it is probably not a good idea for PCGS to open up their registry to NGC graded coins period, not at the same value or at no value. In the long run they might be forced to. If you are a coin dealer assisting collectors in building a set here there is a certain number of PCGS graded coins in all grades. You can play one buyer off of another on price and make more money. Of course there will be denial that this happens and the demand also drives prices up. This deman inflates the prices of their product over NGC's. If you allow NGC coins into the registry there are that many more coins for these same collectors. Price becomes more elastic. Secondly many registry collectors have invested big bucks in their coins and you run the risk of devaluing their collection. Imagine the howl you would get from your customers.

In the long run if NGC continues to holder more and more of the so called great collections and have them registered at their site it will inevitably bring more great coins into their registry slowly buy surely evening up the field, especially if the market sees less and less grading differences. This is why the * has become important to some collectors, coins with the grade and superior eye appeal are at the top giving serious registry collectors one more thing to go after and set their set apart from someone else's. Look at monstermans commen collection as an example.

Of course I have been wrong as many times as I have been right and since I no longer have sets in either registry, easier for me to speculate. I can only comment on what I am seeing.

Edited to add: NGC had noting to lose and everything to gain by allowing PCGS coins into their sets. The decision was a no brainer.

Outhaul

(Because they're smarter than PCGS?)

Oh...I'm sorry, did I just think out loud???



Cheers,

Bob

LucyBop

<< <i>(Because they're smarter than PCGS?)

Oh...I'm sorry, did I just think out loud???



Cheers,

Bob >>



BANN'D!

BAJJERFAN

One has to keep in mind that the registry system was started while PCGS was considered or thought to be the "cat's meow" among TPG's.
First off if NGC didn't allow PCGS graded coins into their registry sets; the NGC registry likely wouldn't be as large or popular as it is now. Take a look; many of the NGC sets are mixed and some exclusively PCGS slabbed coins.
Secondly there aren't many who would cross a coin from PCGS to NGC for the sole purpose of getting it into a NGC registry set tho the opposite is more likely. In Morgans where there are lots of nice coins it probably doesn't matter, but low pop coins will stay in PCGS plastic.

PCGS was first with the registry and its too hard for NGC to play catchup by allowing NGC holdered coins exclusively.

Fourthly its PCGS's registry and they can do what they want to. If they want to come across as arrogant effete snobs [thank you Spiro T.] thats their choice.
As long as you can have sets at either place why does it matter?

tmot99

<< <i>Secondly many registry collectors have invested big bucks in their coins and you run the risk of devaluing their collection. >>



Mike:

Many that participate in the registry spend crazy money for the pop top coins. The question becomes could they ever get their money back? In many cases, not. In some cases, sure without doubt. Let's just say someone buys a pop 1/0 penny 1959. Paid $2000 for it. (I have no clue what it would sell for.) Then carbon spots started to develop thus the grade drops a few points. Certainly devalues the collection.

I am still uncertain how allowing NGC or ANACS coins to be listed with no value can devalue others' collection. Anybody who wants to can see the pop reports at NGC and know that there are other PQ coins.

IrishMike

tmot99, of course it may not affect the value of every set. I can think off hand of two reasons, if someone is trying to finish a set and the last coin is going to cost them a bundle they might get into a bidding war to pay for it. However if they can pick up the same coin in an NGC it means there are more available and the same buyer would pay less and will have completed his set. If someone who has an identical coin in his PCGS holder decides to sell the prices realized prior to his sale will be less. Makes sense to me that this would affect his eventual price realized on his coin. Would you pay 69K for a pop 1 Franklin if you could find one in the same grade in and NGC slab and put it into your set?

If you are collecting a DCAM Proof Washington quarter set and fill your PCGS set with $65 NGC coins instead of $350 PCGS coins and they are scored the same it opens it up to more collectors but at the same time puts less demand on the PCGS quarters when the set is sold. Of course you have to believe that the PCGS price of $350 is propped up by the registry demand.