Green Holder....crack out or submit as is for upgrade

placergold

I have an 1880 MS65 that is PQ and I think it will upgrade to 66. I just purchased it at the FUN Signature auction (lot 11022) with the specific intention of regrade. Should I submit the green holder or crack out? Thinking first to submit to PCGS and, if not sucessful, NGC.

kieferscoins

If you like risk crack it but if you are not a gambler I'd send it in the slab.

Cameron Kiefer

JrGMan2004

I would send it in, in the slab...

rhedden

It sure looks 66 in the photo, but a couple of "invisible" hairlines could easily knock it down to 65. You just can't grade BU coins from digital photos, as much as people would like to. Did you view it in person before buying?

Russ

With the value spread between MS65 and MS66 an upgrade shot is unlikely. If you're sure there's no way it'll come back bodybagged or lower than the current grade, crack it out.

Russ, NCNE

placergold

I did not view it in person but spent a long....long time comparing the digital to others of the same grade (65 and 66) and it has to be either the best 65 or a good 66. Do you think the grading services use the existing slab as a base to grade from? I really don't think it will bodybag or go down in grade so cracking out is an option....on the other hand, then it won't have the desired "green label"

Russ

Do you have the coin in-hand yet?

Russ, NCNE

mdwoods

I don't hold the green label in higher regard than the current blue label slabs. I've seen some rattlers and green label coins that just made the grade indicated on the holder. I'm with Russ. If you are sure it won't bodybag or grade lower than the current grade, crack it out.

placergold

Russ, no, not yet but I suspect I can make a better decision once it arrives. Does the price range difference warrent submission to the other tpg if it doesn't make pcgs or ngc?

IrishMike

A green label doesn't automatically mean the coin is an upgrade candidate or the cert. adds value. It could just as easily mean that other buyers believe the coin is maxed or overgraded and this is the reason it has remained in that holder, therefore no sense in resubmitting it.

Russ

placergold,

I think you should probably wait until you have the coin in-hand before deciding what to do.

Russ, NCNE

Sphinx357

from the recent "tightening" I wouldn't send it to either

Bikingnut

Submit it in the holder. Then at least you are guarenteed a 65.

bearcave

Every PCGS coin that I have sent to PCGS for regrade, I sent in the holder. So far all have upgraded from the green or rattler slabs but I had the coin in hand before making the decision to send. I have resold some that I did not send in.

Leave it in the slab if sending to PCGS, let them crack it and at least it will come back a 65.

BigGreek

<< <i>I have an 1880 MS65 that is PQ and I think it will upgrade to 66. I just purchased it at the FUN Signature auction (lot 11022) with the specific intention of regrade. Should I submit the green holder or crack out? Thinking first to submit to PCGS and, if not sucessful, NGC. >>



They crack it out of the holder anyway so the only downside to sending it in
with the holder is that you have to submit a separate order for a regrade
rather than combining it with a standard grading submission.

If you send it in with the holder, they are also responsible for the cracking
out and will guarrantee that it will grade at least what the original holder
indicated.

But, I agree with the suggestion that you wait until you get the coin before
making a decision. Pictures can hide lots of flaws which would make it unlikely
to upgrade. BTW, once you submit it (either cracked or uncracked) you will
get it back in a new holder, so you will lose any value you placed on having
an old holder.

kieferscoins

<< <i>placergold,

I think you should probably wait until you have the coin in-hand before deciding what to do.

Russ, NCNE >>



I agree with Russ. Wait till it comes. Not seeing the coin in person, no matter how long you looked at the digital image is tough. The experts can't tell a 65 from a 66 in a image half the time and thats why they go to lot viewing and see the coins in person.

Cameron Kiefer

grip

I agree with Russ........If you think the coin is a lock 65,than crack it,and pay the 50.00,so the
coin not sitting around for three months.
........
Al

wam98

placergold, David Lawrence Rare Coins currently has three 1880 Morgans in MS- 66 in NGC and PCGS holders. If you click on the small image it gives you a blow up of the coin that you can see most of anything to compare to yours after you get it in hand. I looked at these yesterday when you posted the other thread about your new 1880.

lava

Just enjoy your new pq dollar and leave it alone. If you are intent on submitting it, I'd look at it under a microscope first to see what you might be missing. Although the grade is assigned based on view in hand, if you detect marks under a scope you tend to look for those same marks as soon as you pull it away from the scope, and if you can see them in hand, it won't 66. PCGS graders have an aptitude to detect such things. You can't make a decision based on Heritage's image.

keets

too many mistakes made already. assuming a green label coin is a better than average shot at an upgrade----buying the hype----and then making that assumption by judging an online picture....................and then making a comparison of that online picture against other online pictures and/or coins in hand!!!!!!!!! WOWZER.

morgans are easy enough to grade, just wait till the coin arrives and if it still seems like it's an MS66 to you, send it still in the holder.

al h.

tmot99

If you send it, send it in the holder. I just sent in a crack out half dime that came back as file marks. I couldn't see them in the holder as they were hiden by the ring. Now I have a really nice half dime that can't get back into a holder (PCGS or NGC anyway). With yours at worst, you will not lose the plastic, only the green label.

morgannut2

Send it in the holder first. If it doesn't upgrade, at least PCGS looked at it twice for hidden problems (putty, file marks, etc.) and it will be safer to crackout the next try. If it came from an old collection that Legend or other Morgan dealer put together, it probably is OK and has a shot since a few people have looked at it already and thought it was nice.

CoastGuard

Whatever you do let us know what happens. This is too good a story to not hear the ending!

robertpr

I checked out the blown up pics on Heritage and it looks good. I'd give it a light dip first though, there seems to be just a touch of fugly toning starting on it. Looks quite nice for a 65 though

roadrunner

Unless you have intend to sell the coin immediately upon an upgrade there's no hurry to do anything with it. Morgans are still cold, especially this date in MS65. It would be better to wait to the time when you are closer to disposing of the coin. Who knows what the market will be like then and what's in vogue. I've already done what you are contemplating and regret losing the green tags on coins that didn't go up a grade. For now, that green tag is perceived as added value, why toss it away? If scarcer date Morgans eventually got hot, your coin may be better left as is.
PCGS is grading tight right now along with NGC. This probably wouldn't be the ideal time to send it either.

Leave all your options open until you are closer to disposition. For all we know, a major shakeout could make all PCGS coins suspect down the road.

roadrunner

placergold

I've had very good success with comparing digital photos that I can blowup with regard to upgrades. As I cannot make it to many shows, this is the only way I can play the game. I understand the market dictates the conservative nature of the tpg but that should be fine if you've got a real PQ. Seems the majority of people who have looked at the blowups of this coin on Heritage agree with the potential for a 66. What about the other grading companies? ANACS in particular if it cannot cross the other two.

IrishMike

If this hasn't been pointed out to you already, there is no way you can grade a coin accurately from the best of photos, let alone to discern a one point grade. Graders use a 5x or 10x loupe and the more you blow up a photo the more you will distort the coin. They also look at the coins using different lighting than photos are usually shot in.

MadMonk

There are lot's of 65's that people think will upgrade due to the fact that there are very few marks on the coin. You have to look at the luster and see if it has 66 luster.

placergold

Mike, I fully understand what you are saying...and have said. I am working with what I have and I certainly will take some licks (already have) but as long as I would be happy with the current grade....its worth a chance...all things being equal, a side by side digital comparison can be helpful.

IrishMike

<< <i>There are lot's of 65's that people think will upgrade due to the fact that there are very few marks on the coin. You have to look at the luster and see if it has 66 luster. >>



Good point and there are often marks, scratches and hairlines that magically appear when you have the coin in hand and tilt and rotate it. Obviously this something you can't do with a photo.

marcmoish

I totally agree with IrishMike - no way you can grade from the photo - not sure why you're just grabbing to have everyone say sure ship you'll get a 66 I personally have gotten burnt recently and I'm extremely conservative. The TPG's seems to be extra rough (read; tough) these days.


Marc

saintguru

Cracking is for the pros...they can afford the occasional "no holder" loss...average collectors are destroyed when a coin comes back bagged...at least I have been in the past. I would strongly advise that you NOT crack it.

The "edge" of the green tag is that it hasn't been submitted for a number of years and there's a shot that the "tougher" standards years ago (if you believe that) gives you a shot at the better grade. I have won a few and lost a few...I would always try, though. The tag is worthless, so big deal if it's got a new one?? Go for it...in the slab.

Shamika

I think 65 is about right. Leave it in the slab.

NoGvmnt

If the coin you purchased is the coin that Cameron posted pics of and you purchased it specifically expecting an upgrade, I think you are in for a disapointment.

The reverse looks Okay but the numerous marks on the cheek (main focal area), the area just in front of liberties nose and upper lip looks like she sneezed, and the area in front of the star at 3:00 looks strange (pitted?).

I seriously doubt that you have any chance of a 66. In any case I would not crack it out before submitting.

Jim

kieferscoins

<< <i>If the coin you purchased is the coin that Cameron posted pics of and you purchased it specifically expecting an upgrade, I think you are in for a disapointment. >>



It is the coin based upon the auction and lot # he provided.

Cameron Kiefer

placergold

Finally got the coin in hand. I've looked at it with a loupe and it definitely is very clean with regard to dings/scratchs for the grade of 65. However, it looks comparatively dull compared to my 66 1883 CC which has a tremendous amount of luster. I've seen other 66's with more dings/scratchs than this one. What if I sent the green label in for regrade but required a minimum grade of 66? If not upgraded, will the green holder come back?