<< <i>thus the quality in ngc is better or pcgs quality is worse which ever way you want to look at it.. >>
Does this make sense then:
While at the FUN show I also attempted to upgrade 5 coins in the older style NGC holder. Since they all reholdered at the same grade and NGC is tightening up now that maybe if I would have tried to upgrade before the standards were raised they might have gotten a higher grade?Makes sense to me.New higher standards and I still got the same grade.Now understand the coins were strong for their grade.No doubt,they were upgrade candidates.
Now, since I read that Rick Montgomery formerly of PCGS has been influential in these higher standards and the fact that (4) of my PCGS slabbed coins that I submitted for crossover did not cross, doesn't this indicate that NGC's new standards are higher than those of PCGS'.
OK now, back to the 5 coins that did reholder in my upgrade attempt.If these coins did reholder at the new higher standards, higher than that of PCGS',obviously because my PCGS coins did not cross, then these coins should upgrade if I send them to PCGS for a crossover, right?
Any opinions on this theory?
Randy >>
Any so called theory about grading companies is worthless since they themselves do not know what they are doing half the time!! Take the experience of an unnamed board member who sent an NGC coin to PCGS for crossover but the coin was returned DNC so he cracked it out and sent it in again. Opps came back in a bodybag so he took it out of the bodybag and sent it in again and (music in the background) POP 1 none higher. I do not know the exact time frame but I believe it was only a couple month period for all three submissions and ALL three times a different opinion from PCGS. Now which opinion was correct first, second or the third?? I know which one the submitter thought was correct!!
<< <i>Take the experience of an unnamed board member who sent an NGC coin to PCGS for crossover but the coin was returned DNC so he cracked it out and sent it in again. Opps came back in a bodybag so he took it out of the bodybag and sent it in again and (music in the background) POP 1 none higher. >>
<< <i>Any so called theory about grading companies is worthless since they themselves do not know what they are doing half the time!! Take the experience of an unnamed board member who sent an NGC coin to PCGS for crossover but the coin was returned DNC so he cracked it out and sent it in again. Opps came back in a bodybag so he took it out of the bodybag and sent it in again and (music in the background) POP 1 none higher. I do not know the exact time frame but I believe it was only a couple month period for all three submissions and ALL three times a different opinion from PCGS. Now which opinion was correct first, second or the third?? I know which one the submitter thought was correct!! >>
I know... this is BULLs**t, standards are standards. Is anybody really following them?
In your example the grading company got paid 3 times, you start to wonder what the he** is going on.
Some NGC coins do cross. I had a 1952 25c Pr68Cam cross. Also a 1956 Jeff Pr67Dcam crossed. These were coins that sparkled with eye appeal in addition to technically being there. Since then, not much else. Although I have a few DNC in for Presidential Review. One 1958 Pr69Dcam Lincoln is in with hopes of Pr68Dcam. I can't figure if it has a frost break or some toning at very bottom of Lincs coat.. I guess toning could drop it a grade, but the DCAM is the key. I have hopes that one of ten will get through. I do agree that NGC Cameo standards are such that you need to see the coin. (for the coins I see 1950's proofs)
Collector of Modern Silver Proofs 1950-1964 -- PCGS Registry as Elite Cameo
I agree, in that PCGS is way at the other end of the spectrum. They are unreasonably tight on many cameos. There is a HUGE gap between the standards, and neither is even close in my opinion.
>>> as a corp exec, I've seen employees try this stunt plenty of times, and they always fail. They can't take the mojo with them. You don't have the experience to make these kind of statements. So cut your ego off where it can pretend to be enormous. >>>>
as the ceo of a company which operates on a global basis i always insist that my corp execs read the art of war by sun tzu....its was written thousands of years ago and its principals and theories about war are very similar to those used in business and in life in general....you should pick up a copy and impress you boss....you should read the part where it says "never under estimate another for if you do ....what you think is smart move ..in reality.... might be the dumbest thing you could of done" ( naturally this was written in chinese so i can only give you the gist of it )...oh btw..... if my execs dont read it...they just dont seem to be around too long...if you know what i mean
irish
" i would be your wingman anytime "
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
>>>>NGC is not going to be able to make their entire product (i.e. all the slabs on the market) consistently tight so that coin buyers will trust the slab as well as they trust the PCGS slab . . . and I'm not intending to open up that other can of worms called "trustworthiness of slabs.">>>>
trust....mmmm....i trust in my grading skills...and i dont care what holder the coin is in...pcgs...ngc...pci...anacs..icg....or segs...as far as the other slabs....i havnt yet seen one i would want ( not saying there arent any...but i havnt seen any )
if you want predictions...here is a few
1) the collector will get better and better at his/her grading skills....and more and more people will buy the coin not the holder
2) the gap in the 2 big services has closed to a point where as if you want to build a monster set you will have to own both
3) the best sets will move to the ngc registry because they allow both services
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
4) most collectors entering the market today weigh eye appeal higher than the old standard 20% which pcgs strictly adheres to....so if you want to get credit for said eye appeal you gotta go to ngc for the star where they appreciate it more
AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN MOST IMPORTANTLY
5) as per #4...you dont have to have big bigs to have eye appealing coins...i love the guys on limited budgets with their eyes gleaming with pride as i ou and ha when i look at their pretty coins...i love those 64 star* coins too....and appreciate their effort
6) another prediction....the first service to acknowledge the little guys collection takes a giant step forward on the one that doesnt......( wink...bet on ngc )
7) news flash...as per #2....does the hugon sale ring a bell....he$$ i bought several of his coins because they were sooooo monster...and i dont even collect barbers.....expect a big advertizing splash from ngc about it too
monsterman
ps ...here one for the board
1) we all know proofs are graded tuffer than ms coins because they were handled differently at and after manufacturing
2) pcgs does not recognize the isabella proof even though it is a class-1 proof...they say they cant tell the difference...mmmm
question....if i took my flawless ( less a minor hairline in the field ) monster toned ngc proof isabella to pcgs for grading...do you think they would ms 69 it???..i saw a ms 68 this weekend at fun and imho the proof is a grade and a half better!!
it will be interesting to hear comments
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
have 1,500 employees, many are execs, attorneys, cpa's and health care professionals.>>>>>
isnt life grand.....i should be so lucky...dont try having them speaking 5 different languages or you will end up like me....just waving your hand like the pope...as far as attorneys im in better shape as they are at least bi lingual and some tri lingual....but the cpa s....forget it...in the third world they never heard of gap and im darn tired of it too...as far as health care ...what is that :-)....unfortunately in the third world .....people are as disposable as a vcr.....all they care about is that armored car arriving at the plants on friday with their cash for the week
The english version of Art of War is a good read.>>>>
yes it is
I don't have a boss (except my wife and her three clones known to others as my daughters). >>>>
you got me there as i have only one female clone...but she has 3 different personalities though.....of which only two i like...last year she bought 500,000 worth of clothes...now i know what your thinking...yes i do..but....she ownes her own boutique and sometimes she forgets how she got there..if you know what i mean
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Comments
<< <i>monsterman stated:
<< <i>thus the quality in ngc is better or pcgs quality is worse which ever way you want to look at it.. >>
Does this make sense then:
While at the FUN show I also attempted to upgrade 5 coins in the older style NGC holder. Since they all reholdered at the same grade and NGC is tightening up now that maybe if I would have tried to upgrade before the standards were raised they might have gotten a higher grade?Makes sense to me.New higher standards and I still got the same grade.Now understand the coins were strong for their grade.No doubt,they were upgrade candidates.
Now, since I read that Rick Montgomery formerly of PCGS has been influential in these higher standards and the fact that (4) of my PCGS slabbed coins that I submitted for crossover did not cross, doesn't this indicate that NGC's new standards are higher than those of PCGS'.
OK now, back to the 5 coins that did reholder in my upgrade attempt.If these coins did reholder at the new higher standards, higher than that of PCGS',obviously because my PCGS coins did not cross, then these coins should upgrade if I send them to PCGS for a crossover, right?
Any opinions on this theory?
Randy >>
Any so called theory about grading companies is worthless since they themselves do not know what they are doing half the time!! Take the experience of an unnamed board member who sent an NGC coin to PCGS for crossover but the coin was returned DNC so he cracked it out and sent it in again. Opps came back in a bodybag so he took it out of the bodybag and sent it in again and (music in the background) POP 1 none higher. I do not know the exact time frame but I believe it was only a couple month period for all three submissions and ALL three times a different opinion from PCGS. Now which opinion was correct first, second or the third?? I know which one the submitter thought was correct!!
<< <i>Take the experience of an unnamed board member who sent an NGC coin to PCGS for crossover but the coin was returned DNC so he cracked it out and sent it in again. Opps came back in a bodybag so he took it out of the bodybag and sent it in again and (music in the background) POP 1 none higher. >>
Fascinating scenario.
Unnamed Board Member
<< <i>Any so called theory about grading companies is worthless since they themselves do not know what they are doing half the time!! Take the experience of an unnamed board member who sent an NGC coin to PCGS for crossover but the coin was returned DNC so he cracked it out and sent it in again. Opps came back in a bodybag so he took it out of the bodybag and sent it in again and (music in the background) POP 1 none higher. I do not know the exact time frame but I believe it was only a couple month period for all three submissions and ALL three times a different opinion from PCGS. Now which opinion was correct first, second or the third?? I know which one the submitter thought was correct!! >>
I know... this is BULLs**t, standards are standards. Is anybody really following them?
In your example the grading company got paid 3 times, you start to wonder what the he** is going on.
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
<< <i>In your example the grading company got paid 3 times, you start to wonder what the he** is going on. >>
Yep, and Unnamed Board Member was really pissed about it until he sold the coin for a tidy profit even after all the grading fees.
Russ, NCNE
I am going to crack a few out, send them in and see what happens.I'll post the results when I get them back.
Randy
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
Big stick ! no grease !
.01 pr67 cam
.05 68 cam
.10 68* cam
.25 68 cam
.50 68 cam
BUMMER
I should add that these were sent to cross at Minimum PR67 CAM
This Sucks !
<< <i>heres my .02
Big stick ! no grease !
.01 pr67 cam
.05 68 cam
.10 68* cam
.25 68 cam
.50 68 cam
BUMMER
I should add that these were sent to cross at Minimum PR67 CAM
This Sucks ! >>
Never bank on an NGC cam crossing. Regardless of the political game, NGC has absolutely no standard for cameo designation.
At this point,neither does PCGS !
Since then, not much else. Although I have a few DNC in for Presidential Review. One 1958 Pr69Dcam Lincoln is in with hopes of Pr68Dcam. I can't figure if it has a frost break or some toning at very bottom of Lincs coat.. I guess toning could drop it a grade, but the DCAM is the key. I have hopes that one of ten will get through.
I do agree that NGC Cameo standards are such that you need to see the coin. (for the coins I see 1950's proofs)
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
I agree, in that PCGS is way at the other end of the spectrum. They are unreasonably tight on many cameos. There is a HUGE gap between the standards, and neither is even close in my opinion.
>>> as a corp exec, I've seen employees try this stunt plenty of times, and they always fail. They can't take the mojo with them. You don't have the experience to make these kind of statements. So cut your ego off where it can pretend to be enormous. >>>>
as the ceo of a company which operates on a global basis i always insist that my corp execs read the art of war by sun tzu....its was written thousands of years ago and its principals and theories about war are very similar to those used in business and in life in general....you should pick up a copy and impress you boss....you should read the part where it says "never under estimate another for if you do ....what you think is smart move ..in reality.... might be the dumbest thing you could of done" ( naturally this was written in chinese so i can only give you the gist of it )...oh btw..... if my execs dont read it...they just dont seem to be around too long...if you know what i mean
irish
" i would be your wingman anytime "
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
MM, you state the exception as if it were the rule.
I have 1,500 employees, many are execs, attorneys, cpa's and health care professionals.
The english version of Art of War is a good read.
I don't have a boss (except my wife and her three clones known to others as my daughters).
>>>>NGC is not going to be able to make their entire product (i.e. all the slabs on the market) consistently tight so that coin buyers will trust the slab as well as they trust the PCGS slab . . . and I'm not intending to open up that other can of worms called "trustworthiness of slabs.">>>>
trust....mmmm....i trust in my grading skills...and i dont care what holder the coin is in...pcgs...ngc...pci...anacs..icg....or segs...as far as the other slabs....i havnt yet seen one i would want ( not saying there arent any...but i havnt seen any )
if you want predictions...here is a few
1) the collector will get better and better at his/her grading skills....and more and more people will buy the coin not the holder
2) the gap in the 2 big services has closed to a point where as if you want to build a monster set you will have to own both
3) the best sets will move to the ngc registry because they allow both services
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
4) most collectors entering the market today weigh eye appeal higher than the old standard 20% which pcgs strictly adheres to....so if you want to get credit for said eye appeal you gotta go to ngc for the star where they appreciate it more
AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN MOST IMPORTANTLY
5) as per #4...you dont have to have big bigs to have eye appealing coins...i love the guys on limited budgets with their eyes gleaming with pride as i ou and ha when i look at their pretty coins...i love those 64 star* coins too....and appreciate their effort
6) another prediction....the first service to acknowledge the little guys collection takes a giant step forward on the one that doesnt......( wink...bet on ngc )
7) news flash...as per #2....does the hugon sale ring a bell....he$$ i bought several of his coins because they were sooooo monster...and i dont even collect barbers.....expect a big advertizing splash from ngc about it too
monsterman
ps ...here one for the board
1) we all know proofs are graded tuffer than ms coins because they were handled differently at and after manufacturing
2) pcgs does not recognize the isabella proof even though it is a class-1 proof...they say they cant tell the difference...mmmm
question....if i took my flawless ( less a minor hairline in the field ) monster toned ngc proof isabella to pcgs for grading...do you think they would ms 69 it???..i saw a ms 68 this weekend at fun and imho the proof is a grade and a half better!!
it will be interesting to hear comments
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
have 1,500 employees, many are execs, attorneys, cpa's and health care professionals.>>>>>
isnt life grand.....i should be so lucky...dont try having them speaking 5 different languages or you will end up like me....just waving your hand like the pope...as far as attorneys im in better shape as they are at least bi lingual and some tri lingual....but the cpa s....forget it...in the third world they never heard of gap and im darn tired of it too...as far as health care ...what is that :-)....unfortunately in the third world .....people are as disposable as a vcr.....all they care about is that armored car arriving at the plants on friday with their cash for the week
The english version of Art of War is a good read.>>>>
yes it is
I don't have a boss (except my wife and her three clones known to others as my daughters). >>>>
you got me there as i have only one female clone...but she has 3 different personalities though.....of which only two i like...last year she bought 500,000 worth of clothes...now i know what your thinking...yes i do..but....she ownes her own boutique and sometimes she forgets how she got there..if you know what i mean
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
You're too much!!