Advice for you -- Divorce and Your collectibles

Billa

Well, speaking of my ex, it has been 19 months since our separation. She wants to take me to the cleaners. Like the biggest dummy on the face of the earth, when she threw me out, something told me to grab my PSA graded cards and a few autographed baseballs (Mantle, DiMaggio, Williams, etc.). Thinking I had nothing to worry, I left an entire room of the neatest stuff you could lay your eyes on . . . a lifelong dedication to my hobby . . . scores of 60s bobbleheads, Clemente and Mantle bats, Connie Mack and Chief Bender autographed balls (to name a few), 200 SGA bobbleheads, displays of '60 Topps cards, matted and framed Holhouser baseball cartoon drawings, Stanford pottery baseball banks, binders and binders of ungraded cards, pennants, and stuff I can't even remember having . . . it's been so long. I could just cry.

Point is and best advice: Never leave home without it!!

P.S. If you meet her, and marry her, can I at least have some of my stuff back?

jrdolan

<< <i>If you meet her, and marry her, can I at least have some of my stuff back? >>


I'm not so sure that taking it with you (meaning anybody) gets you off the hook. Even if her lawyer can't get an exact value of the collection because you aren't cooperative with an inventory, the lawyer can probably still get the court to set a figure that you have to pay for her share. Depending on your other resources, you might have to sell all those treasures to settle up.

Vargha

Another good reason to hide your collection from your wife and to completely low-ball what you spent on it . . .

Billa

thanks, JR Dolan, fortunately assets are not the issue. You and I and some of the guys could easily sit around and put a value on each item (I have no problem cooperating with inventory), but she simply won't accept any value. She wants a $100 item to be worth $400. And if there are 2500 items, it will be a mess. My attorney has requested numerous times for me to get access to get inventory. She has denied those requests. We are headed to court in March. I, at least, savor the moment to sit in front of a judge for several hours and talk PSA, value, and baseball history. What is a shame, I purchased items for $10 that are now worth a $1000.

Hey, now that you mention it, I will get a court order to get access to get inventory! Good thinking, jrdolan!!!

WinPitcher

tell her you want half of what she spent on shoes

Billa

I'd take half of what she spent on Beany Babies!!!

jaxxr

Items bought / found / given to you / Etc. BEFORE you married, are subject only to their increase in fair market value as for an amount to be split upon divorce. If they went down, like an 89 Ken Griffey Jr., for example, you can keep it, along with your shoes. At least in Illinois, in 1984.

My own divorce was quite fair, we split most property in HALF, like the house: she got the inside, I got the outside.

Love is grand,
Divorce is 50 grand. Much more in many cases.

JTB

My wife told me that if I ever left her, she would take half of my cards. She'll let me pick if I want the top half or bottom half of each card!!

Al

koby

<< <i> I, at least, savor the moment to sit in front of a judge for several hours and talk PSA, value, and baseball history. What is a shame, I purchased items for $10 that are now worth a $1000. >>



I don't think you will like the results if you tell this to the judge.

UnAmuzd1

<< <i>Items bought / found / given to you / Etc. BEFORE you married, are subject only to their increase in fair market value as for an amount to be split upon divorce. If they went down, like an 89 Ken Griffey Jr., for example, you can keep it, along with your shoes. At least in Illinois, in 1984. >>


That's the key. Different states have different laws on that issue. An attorney can tell you what your state's laws are.

I was lucky, I guess. When my first wife and I split, we only had debt to divide...

Billa

Geez, how many of you guys are divorced? I thought I was the only one who is treading for water. Funny thing about all of this, I just want my stuff, she can every thing else. And there in lies the problem, she knows I love my stuff and therefore is making my life miserable. We went to court last October. I had a court order to get the items (those I could remember having) before being married 23 years ago. Her attorney made me document every item. Luckily, for the major items I listed, I had the documentation and sure showed her ass. They weren't expecting that. Here is where I am screwed though: I made a lot of good trades through the years, for example, a coiin collection prior to marriage for vintage cards. I guess I'll have to eat those deals. Also, and here is the big question: Who will appraise this stuff and then make their appraisal stand up in court? I had (had being the key word) a friend who was knowledgeable and I think my wife had him come in and do an appraisal. However, i could tear his appraisal apart in court.

koby

If the increase in the value of separate property is also separate property I think you are in good shape.

Lothar52

soooooooo sad

Brian48

It may already be too late, but draw up an itemized bill of sales and sell EVERYTHING to your father, brother, trusted friend, or whatever, for $1. Get it notorized and reviewed by your attorney. Unless formal proceeding have already begun and she's got claim to it, you can generally get away with this.

koby

<< <i>It may already be too late, but draw up an itemized bill of sales and sell EVERYTHING to your father, brother, trusted friend, or whatever, for $1. Get it notorized and reviewed by your attorney. Unless formal proceeding have already begun and she's got claim to it, you can generally get away with this. >>



If this was done a few years ago...maybe. Not today though. Too obviously fraudulent. The wife already knows the items have value and had them appraised. She won't let him get away with this.

Billa

Thanks Koby, Lothar 52 and Brian 48 and all you guys,

This is pretty sad, and it is too late to hide anything, but I wouldn't do that anyway. And I do have a sharp attorney. She draws a line in the dust and dares anyone to cross it. I think the strategy will be this: I put $X dollars on my collection, and stick to it. My wife can have it for that. If she puts $X plus, then she'll have to prove it or take the collection on her side. I may be mistaken, but I think the burden is on her. She filed for the divorce, I am the defendent. One cannot walk into a courtroom and say this is worth a gazillion dollars without proving it, without having an appraisal, and without talking to me to get an appraisal. What scares me the most is, we all know that what we have is only worth what another is willing to pay for it. The stuff Koby has, for example, may not get the top price from me. The stuff I have, won't bring the top price from Lother 52. If she took the inventory and list of items and got top dollar prices, we all know that would not be correct. You guys want to come to court with me?

stormsurge

I feel your pain!

Billa

Yes, I do have pain. But you ought to see all the great stuff I bought since the separation. Nothing like a fresh start.

You know what else is cool! I pay the ex a fortune each month in alimony and child support and her family rubs in it my face. Heh, heh! She used to get all the money! Now I have bunches to buy Mantles, Koufaxes, Clementes . . . and she is not around to nag at me for spending the money! Hmmmm . . . isn't this why she filed for divorce to begin with?

boggs301012

I went thru the Big D 2 years ago. New it was gonna happen. I placed all my collectibles in storage. And never mentioned it to her and told her I sold them. End of story never heard a word about it again.

James

Vargha

You also might want to check into the murder laws in your state. With time off for good behavior on a plea bargain for second-degree murder in the "heat of the passion", you could be out in 5-7 years without any further entanglements. Now, I'm not recommending this and certainly would advise you to consult with a legal expert before pursuing such a course of action.

ctsoxfan

heh, I mean -

A761506

Why don't you just put her on the defensive... you should change your entire attitude towards the way you are looking it this. You've moved on... you have started fresh... anything you wind up with at this point sounds like it would be gravy. Nevermind when you bought the stuff, how much you paid or how much it appreciated... let her have someone appraise it, let her name the price, and then tell her that since she clearly wants it, you would like her to cash out your half and that would be the end of it. That would give you a solid position because it sounds pretty obvious that she has absolutely no interest in the stuff. I think your options that could arise from an attitude like that would be much more in your favor when all is said and done.

Billa

Thanks A761506,

My friends, attorney, seems everybody says what you have just said, i.e., act like you've walked away. This would put her over the end knowing that all that stuff to me now means nothing. Funny, how through all the years she would say everyday, "You blow all that money on that worthless junk in your baseball room, and we could have had a (pick one: new couch, new carpeting, new car, new addition to house, etc.)" She got all that and much more anyway. And, now, when it is over, finally (I mean go tell your wives to read this right now) finally! . . . she sees how smart I was and what a good investment this stuff is!

Cubfan

Im taking some good notes.

NickM

You could also seek a court order that all or part of the collection be sold during the divorce proceedings via consigned collectibles auction. In the final tally, our cards are worth only what someone is actually willing to pay for them, not a price guide value. If you have Mastro- or Leland's-quality items, this may even net you considerably higher than the appraised value. It also eliminates the downside risk of you having to give her half the amount of an appraisal for significantly over what the items would sell for.

Nick

NewJerseyMeatHook

Are you fellas honest with your spouses regarding the amount of cash you spend on cards? I often find myself sprinting to the mailbox to fetch my personal "business" credit card bills. If she only knew.

Vargha

Of course we are.

murcerfan

It seems your little princess could be liable for your extreme emotional distress from a loss she clearly is deliberately causing.

stevek

Prenup!!!

Vargha

Are we allowed to say "bitch" on this thread? I think that is the appropriate term here.

koby

C'mon now. The woman was married to Billa for twenty-three years.

Vargha

Good point.

RobBobGolf

No kids to smuggle it out for you? For 500 bucks you can hire a "moving company" that needs no keys to the house.

Here's another related strategy I saw used. Sensing the impending split, the Husband withdrew $50,000 over a couple of weeks at 10K increments. When asked what happened to the money, he stated he had a gambling problem and it was gone. This only works if used before a legal seperation.

Billa, my condolences. I see this happen all the time to my friends. 23 years... the kids are grown....you married young...she wants a second chance at being 25 again...the internet predators get to her....etc. etc.

RobBob

stevek

<<< C'mon now. The woman was married to Billa for twenty-three years >>>

Yea, that's nice that the marriage happened to last that long. Young married couples starting out each having nothing don't need a prenup. But if having something going into a marriage, get a prenup or suffer the possible consequences - it's that simple.

Knuckles

YeeeAACK! Feel sick to my stomach after reading this thread. Been married for a year and a few months..

A761506

It is scary getting married today with the divorce rate upwards of 50%, and hearing stories of people turning into sadistic animals during settlement... I am nearly 29, and I've broken off a couple serious relationships because it was getting too far along and I didn't want to get married, and I knew that they did, so I was essentially just wasting their time. I have no plans of even considering getting married any time soon... perhaps I'll rethink in mid-30's.

dude

This is a sad story. I don't recall reading what state Billa lives in. In Texas, everything owned before marriage is separate property and everything obtained during marriage is community property. As far as I know, separate property obtained before the marriage belongs to that person regardless if it appreciates in value and can't be taken away in a divorce suit. Community property is split down the middle in value. My advice is to get all the sports stuff and let her have the rest of the stuff (i.e. furniture and house). The reason is that when you meet another woman down the road, she will want to replace or change the house and furniture that you shared with your prior wife. Women for some reason don't want anything that had to do with a prior woman in your life and you'll end up getting rid of it eventually. I wish you well and I hope you come out OK.

One other thing, in Texas, any gift received during the marriage is separate property. If those sports items were birthday or Christmas gifts, then they are yours. One other loophole is if you inherited any items while you were married. Those would be yours too.

JonB

Dan, what part of Texas do you live in? I'm in Fort Worth.

Billa, you wouldn't happen to live in the great state of Texas too would you?

koby

If the increase in the value of separate property is also separate property I think you are in good shape.

dude

JonB -- Howdy fellow Texan! I live about 30 miles south of Houston.

Billa

Hi, Guys,
I'm back, had to go to Mass this a.m. and then stopped at Walmart to buy some of those sterilite boxes to store cards in that were talked about in aother thread. They work great . . . can flip through the cards, fit in safe, pretty nice.

"Dude", your outline of property is the same in my state. If it was mine before marriage, inherited, gifts, etc. . . . it is mine. Also, you guys have to understand . . . I'll give her the house, give her the contents, giver her half of my retirement, etc . etc. but . . . she wants all my stuff, too!

You know how bad this is?: I mentioned when I first introduced myself a couple weeks ago on this forum that I went through a serious illness, almost died (Feb. 28). I recovered — for the moment — but the ex and her attorney actually said, "If we wait long enough, you'll die and we'll get everything."

Now if that doesn't make you stand up and fight, nothing will!

Stone193

<< <i>Now if that doesn't make you stand up and fight, nothing will! >>


Billa
That would be enough to give me the desire!
Good luck to you and hope 2005 is a better year! I have found that keeping focused, don't lose my cool, don't be argumentative or combative goes a long way in resolving situations. And of course, as you have so humbly alluded to in your situation: life is short!
I look forward to hearing a positive outcome!

And of course there is always the:





your friend
Mike

stevek

Scumbag attorneys who say stuff like that are only trying to get you mad so that you'll retaliate by hiring your own scumbag attorney. Then you and your ex-wife fall right into their trap of running up the costly attorney fees. Scumbag attorneys like this have no interest in quickly settling - only in dragging things out until you are both broke. Only when these attorneys can no longer squeeze any money out of either one of you...then they'll talk you both into settling. You'll have to somehow communicate with your wife to make sure this doesn't happen. It's also in her best interest to stop the nonsense and quickly settle because she'll also windup broke.

JordanB

<< <i>Another good reason to hide your collection from your wife and to completely low-ball what you spent on it . . . >>

and just like you do for the irs, remind the lawyers that you always, repeat always, lost money on every single card or memoribilia transaction you ever did.

JordanB

"Ah, yes, divorce...from the Latin word meaning to rip out a man's genitals through his wallet."
-- Robin Williams

Billa

I hope all the collectors are reading this "best advice divorce site." Most all the responses to date are true. If you see your marriage is failing and you know the inevitable, plan ahead with your collectibles.

I was at a get-together the other day and someone asked, what is your best advice, my response was, "Don't ever get divorced."

One of the married women quickly responded, "No, never get married!" Needless to say, she and her husband didn't get along too well the rest of the evening.

Penn State Steve, what year did you graduate?

stevek

Class of 1976

Billa

Class of 72, Chi Phi.

Vargha

and just like you do for the irs, remind the lawyers that you always, repeat always, lost money on every single card or memoribilia transaction you ever did.

I actually might have broken even on one. But I doubt it.

stevek

Kappa Sigma

PS: Good to hear that you recovered from that serious illness and best of luck with those divorce procedings. If you and your ex-wife listen to my post about attorneys, you'll come through this financially fine - both of you. Remember that you are hiring the attorney not the other way around. The attorney is working for you so don't allow these people to intimidate you or your ex-wife. If you don't like the attorneys - fire them and get somebody else who can settle this quickly without great expense. Again...Good Luck!

Stone193

Idea: create a forum for "mediation" of the equitable distribution of a person's collection. The Collection Mediation Board.
I nominate Vargha to be Chairman of the Board since his diminutive height seems to have given him a special perspective on life.