1982 topps "blackless" on the registry ?

speeder

hi all,

yes, there is at least one. does anyone else have one included in their registry ?? anyone even have one graded ??

psa does not recognize the "blackless" variation in their lable. but you will recognize the "blackless" variation in the scans below.



your friend, lee

mudflap02

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55928&item=5148144154&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

NickM

Looking at Bench's hair and eyebrows makes me think that "blackless" should be considered a printing defect (black ink not applied to the sheet) rather than a variation.

Nick

jimtb

Nick M,
In reality that's what it is, a print defect. However, the scarcity, and the obviousness of the missing autograph make them very collectible for us moron player collectors. I've been looking for a blackless Trammell for at least 10 years. I only know of one other person that has one.

WinPitcher

I would disagree calling these a "defect" actually since an autograph is missing I would think that they would be highly desirable. I understand where your coming from Nick but the lack of color should not be considered a defect.

NickM

Win - what is the difference between this and a 1993 Topps Stadium Club card with no gold foil stamping?. I have several that are that way, including a First Day Production card.

I don't think a card that missed one step in the production process should be deemed as a variation. Had the autograph been missing with the rest of the black ink still there, this would be a variation.

Nick

speeder

hi everyone,

is it a print defect ? the story i hear is that the black ink well went dry while printing was in effect. it was noticed quickly, the black ink
was resupplied and printing continued.

that is not a printing defect ,,,,, that was an error on someones (printing employee) part.

so if that story is true, it would be an error card.

none the less, the blackless cards are quite hard to find and for certain players, obtaining one can be quite expensive.
I see where the nolan ryan psa-7 card above, went for some $420 +

there is also a thin black line that is missing around the players pictures.

see ya, lee

WinPitcher

don't think a card that missed one step in the production process should be deemed as a variation. Had the autograph been missing with the rest of the black ink still there, this would be a variation.


Nick that is a good point


while it can also be said...a true variation or just a production fault

from the non sport checklist j allender

pandrews

has anybody seen a rickey henderson blackless?

onlychild

Any ideas about this one? I think it's the mega rare "redless" no position, no name on front error card. What's up with the printing problems on the 82 Topps?



Kevin

Ironmanfan

Thank God the Ripken was not part of this (82T Blackless variations).

A761506

I just acquired several of these extremely rare "blackless" cards and am offering them for sale to fellow board members. If you are interested in any of these cards, please PM me. Feel free to make an offer. Scans available on request. All are from the rare C sheet except where noted. Grades are conservative.

Name
Johnny Bench - NM
Eddie Murray - NM
Steve Carlton (in action) - NM
Rollie Fingers - NM
George Brett (all-star) - EX/MT
George Brett (in action) - NM
Jim Palmer (in action) - NM
Fernando Valenzuela (all-star) - EX/MT
Jim Clancy - NM

Detroit Tigers:
Lou Whitaker - NM/MT
Al Cowens - NM/MT
Milt Wilcox - NM
Milt Wilcox - EX/MT
George Cappuzzello - NM
Rich Hebner - NM/MT
Rich Hebner - NM
Dan Schatzeder - NM
Kevin Saucier - NM (Sheet A)

jimtb

A761506,
No Trammell? I know he was on sheet C. I may never see one of these in my lifetime...
Jim

A761506

I'd have bought Trammell in two seconds if he was available. If I find one, I'll buy it and then give you a shot at it. The guy may have more, although, don't hold your breath. Trammell will probably run me at least $200-250 if I ever find it - and SCD lists it at $6 (haha). How much would you be willing to spend on one?

BigtimeBowmanfan

Just curious, What are these? i never heard of them.

rbeaton

This was recently graded...



Robert

bobsbbcards

<< <i>Just curious, What are these? i never heard of them. >>


In 1982, half the cards in the Topps regular set were inadvertently printed without any black ink. Easiest way to tell is by the absence of a signature on the card and the lack of the thin black border around the picture. Also, the player's position will be missing on the card if it was printed in black. Cards will also appear slightly washed out.

Topps issued cards in 6 different sheets of 132 cards each in '82 (A through F). Only cards from A-C sheets are found missing the black ink. Blackless cards from sheets A and B were primarily sent to the east coast (NY) and C sheet cards were primarily sent to Michigan. That's why "C" sheet Tiger cards (Morris, Trammell, Whitaker, etc.) are the toughest to find and can bring righteous bucks.

Morris card seems to be the toughest to find. A few copies have light gray (ghosting) where the black is supposed to be.

Standard Catalog pricing doesn't begin to reflect the market prices for many of the cards. As Josh said, Trammell is listed at $6.00. It's tricky to actually put a price on these cards because the number of people working on the set is extremely low. You might see them listed on eBay for $9.99 or so (usually for A or B commons) and nobody will bid. I think if you stuck a Henderson, Trammell, Whitaker, Morris, either Palmer, or George Brett IA up, you'd see a flurry of activity.

Here's a list of the cards in the "set" along with which sheet they were from:

8 RICH DAUER B
9 RON GUIDRY A
10 RON GUIDRY IA B
11 GARY ALEXANDER C
12 MOOSE HAAS A
13 LAMAR JOHNSON B
14 STEVE HOWE A
17 DARRELL EVANS B
18 FERNANDO ARROYO B
20 GARRY MADDUX A
24 DAVE FROST C
26 JORGE ORTA C
28 JOHN URREA C
31 TOM SEAVER IA A
35 WILLIE AIKENS A
37 DAN GRAHAM C
38 CHARLIE LEA B
39 LOU WHITAKER C
40 DAVE PARKER A
42 RICK SOFIELD C
48 BOBBY CASTILLO C
49 ALVIN WOODS B
50 BUDDY BELL A
52 LARRY ANDERSON C
54 RON HASSEY A
55 RICK BURLESON A
60 TONY ARMAS A
64 LYNN JONES C
65 TERRY KENNEDY A
67 RICH GALE B
68 ROY HOWELL C
70 TIM RAINES B
71 ROY LEE JACKSON A
72 RICH AUERBACH C
73 BUDDY SOLOMON C
74 BOB CLARK C
77 MIGUEL DILONE B
78 GEORGE MEDICH B
80 JIM PALMER B
81 JIM PALMER IA C
84 RENNIE STENNETT A
87 MATT KEOUGH B
88 BIFF POCOROBA C
89 STEVE HENDERSON B
90 NOLAN RYAN B
91 CARNEY LANSFORD A
92 BRAD HAVENS B
94 ANDY HASSLER C
95 OZZIE SMITH A
98 TERRY BULLING C
99 BARRY BONNELL B
100 MIKE SCHMIDT A
101 MIKE SCHMIDT IA C
105 KIRK GIBSON A
107 WAYNE KRENCHICKI C
109 DAVE REVERING B
110 CARLTON FISK A
112 BILLY SAMPLE A
113 STEVE MCCATTY B
114 KEN LANDREAUX B
115 GAYLORD PERRY B
116 JIM WOHLFORD C
117 RAWLY EASTWICK C
119 JOE PITTMAN C
120 GARY LUCAS B
122 JAIMIE EASTERLEY C
123 DANNY GOODWIN B
125 DANNY AINGE B
127 LONNIE SMITH A
128 FRANK PASTORE C
130 JULIO CRUZ A
131 STAN BAHNSON B
132 LEE MAY C
134 DAN FORD C
135 ANDY RINCON B
136 LENN SAKATA B
137 GEORGE CAPPUZZELLO C
138 TONY PENA C
140 RON LEFLORE A
143 MOOKIE WILSON A
147 DENNY WALLING B
150 TED SIMMONS B
155 OTTO VELEZ A
157 STEVE CRAWFORD B
158 BRIAN DOWNING C
159 LARRY BIITTNER C
160 LUIS TIANT A
170 JIM BIBBY A
172 BILL GULLICKSON B
173 JAIME QUIRK B
174 DAVE FORD B
175 JERRY MUMPHREY B
177 JOHN ELLIS B
178 DYAR MILLER B
179 STEVE GARVEY A
181 SILVIO MARTINEZ B
183 MIKE PROLY B
185 PHIL NIEKRO B
189 GLENN HOFFMAN B
190 JR RICHARD A
192 BRODERICK PERKINS A
198 CHRIS SPIER B
200 GEORGE BRETT A
201 GEORGE BRETT IA C
204 GARY ROENICKE B
209 GARY LAVELLE A
210 KEITH HERNANDEZ B
211 DAN PETRY C
212 MARIO MENDOZA A
215 MIKE KRUKOW B
220 MANNY TRILLO B
221 JIM SLATON B
222 BUTCH WYNEGAR A
223 LLYOD MOSEBY A
224 BRUCE BOCHTE A
225 MIKE TOREZ C
228 SAM MEJIAS B
230 WILLIE WILSON A
232 TERRY CROWLEY B
233 DUANE KUIPER A
234 RON HODGES B
235 MIKE EASLER A
237 RUSTY KUNTZ B
238 KEVIN SAUCIER A
239 JON MATLACK B
240 BUCKY DENT A
241 BUCKY DENT IA B
245 KEN REITZ B
247 PEDRO GUERRERO A
251 FRED LYNN B
255 TONY PEREZ B
256 TONY PEREZ IA C
257 LARRY HARLOW B
258 BO DIAZ B
259 RODNEY SCOTT A
260 BRUCE SUTTER A
262 DOUG BAIR C
264 DAN QUISENBERRY B
265 AL BUMBRY B
267 KURT BEVACQUA C
270 RUSTY STAUB A
272 BUMP WILLS B
275 BOB WATSON C
278 JOHN LITTLEFIELD B
280 BEN OGLIVIE C
281 JOHN VERHOEVEN B
282 KEN MACHA C
283 BRIAN ALLARD C
285 SPARKY LYLE A
287 ALAN BANNISTER B
288 GARY TEMPLETON C
289 BOB STANLEY B
290 KEN SINGLETON A
297 CLINT HURDLE C
299 STEVE TROUT A
300 REGGIE JACKSON A
302 DOUG FLYNN C
305 DON SUTTON B
307 RANDY BASS C
308 CHARLIE MOORE A
310 MIKE HARGROVE B
312 LENNY RANDLE B
313 JOHN HARRIS C
315 BURT HOOTON A
317 DICK RUTHVEN A
323 BILL LEE B
324 STEVE DILLARD C
325 JOSE CRUZ B
328 ED FARMER A
329 UL WASHINGTON A
330 RICK WISE C
332 DON ROBINSON A
334 AUREILIO RODRIGUEZ B
335 JIM SUNBERG B
339 MIKE SCHMIDT ALL STAR A
340 DAVE CONCEPCION ALL STAR A
341 ANDRE DAWSON ALL STAR A
342 GEORGE FOSTER ALL STAR A
343 DAVE PARKER ALL STAR A
344 GARY CARTER ALL STAR C
345 FERNANDO VALENZUELA ALL STAR C
349 GEORGE FRAZIER C
352 DICK DAVIS C
354 ROBERTO RAMOS C
355 DWIGHT EVANS A
357 BUTCH HOBSON A
359 JIM DWYER B
360 LEN BARKER C
363 BOB MOLINARO C
365 BILL MADLOCK A
370 MIKE NORRIS A
380 DAVE STIEB A
382 JOE SIMPSON C
385 KEN FORSCH A
387 TOM VERYZER A
388 JOE RUDI A
390 EDDIE MURRAY C
397 KEN BRETT C
398 MIKE SQUIRES C
399 PAT ZACHRY A
400 JOHNNY BENCH C
406 AL HOLLAND C
409 DON COOPER B
412 LUIS LEAL A
413 DAN MEYER C
415 DON BAYLOR C
417 PAT KELLY B
419 STEVE STONE B
420 GEORGE HENDRICK A
421 MARK CLEAR C
422 CLIFF JOHNSON A
423 STAN PAPI C
424 BRUCE BENEDICT A
425 JOHN CANDELARIA B
430 VIDA BLUE B
440 JEFF BURROUGHS A
442 BRUCE KISON C
443 MARK WAGNER C
445 LARRY PARISH B
446 WAYNE GARLAND B
448 DARRELL PORTER IA C
450 JACK MORRIS C
451 ED MILLER C
459 BRUCE BERENYI B
460 JACK CLARK C
461 RICH DOTSON A
462 DAVE CHALK C
463 JIM KERN B
464 JAUN BONILLA B
465 LEE MAZZILLI A
467 MICKEY HATCHER C
468 FLOYD BANNISTER C
472 OSCAR GAMBLE A
475 ALAN TRAMMELL C
476 BRIAN KINGMAN A
477 STEVE YEAGER B
480 STEVE CARLTON B
481 STEVE CARLTON IA C
484 IVAN DEJESUS C
490 DENNIS ECKERSLEY B
492 JOE PRICE B
493 CHET LEMON A
494 HUBIE BROOKS A
495 DENNIS LEONARD A
496 JOHNNY GRUBB A
498 DAVE BERGMAN C
499 PAUL MIRABELLA A
500 ROD CAREW A
501 ROD CAREW IA B
503 JULIO GONZALEZ C
507 TERRY HARPER B
510 FERNANDO VALENZUELA A
511 RUPPERT JONES A
512 JERRY DYBZINSKI B
515 LARRY BOWA B
518 GARTH IORG A
519 GLENN ADAMS C
520 MIKE FLANAGAN C
521 BILL ALMON C
523 GARY GRAY C
524 TOM HAUSMAN C
532 TOBY HARRAH B
534 DAVE MCCAY B
536 RAFEAL RAMIREZ B
540 ANDRE DAWSON B
541 BARRY EVANS B
542 NED YOST C
543 BILL ROBINSON C
547 ROD CAREW ALL STAR A
548 WILLIE RANDOLPH ALL STAR C
549 GEORGE BRETT ALL STAR C
550 BUCKY DENT ALL STAR C
551 REGGIE JACKSON ALL STAR A
552 KEN SINGLETON ALL STAR A
553 DAVE WINFIELD ALL STAR A
554 CARLTON FISK ALL STAR A
555 SCOTT MCGREGOR ALL STAR C
556 JACK MORRIS ALL STAR A
557 RICH GOSSAGE ALL STAR A
560 DOUG CORBETT C
563 ROSS BAUMGARTEN A
564 DOUG DECINCES A
565 JACKSON TODD C
567 BOB BABCORK C
568 JOE PETTINI B
569 WILLIE RANDOLPH B
573 RICK WAITS C
574 MIKE RAMSEY B
575 AL COWENS C
579 RICK MAHLER C
580 BOBBY BONDS B
581 RON REED B
582 LUIS PUJOLS B
585 ROLLIE FINGERS C
588 DALE BERRA B
590 AL OLIVER B
594 RENIE MARTIN C
600 DAVE WINFIELD A
601 SID MONGE B
602 FREDDIE PATEK B
603 RICHIE HEBNER C
608 JERRY ROYSTER B
610 RICKEY HENDERSON C
611 JOE NIEKRO A
612 GARY WARD B
613 JIM GANTNER A
615 BOB BOONE A
616 BOB BOONE IA C
622 DENNIS LAMP C
624 FERGIE JENKINS A
625 HAL MCRAE A
626 RANDY JONES A
627 ENOS CABELL B
629 JOHNNY WOCKENFUSS A
630 JOE CHARBONEAU B
632 BRYAN CLARK C
635 RON DAVIS A
637 RICK CAMP C
640 CESAR CEDENO B
645 FRANK WHITE A
646 FRANK WHITE IA C
648 JOSE MORALES B
649 KEN CLAY C
654 JIM MORRISON A
655 JOEL YOUNGBLOOD A
656 EDDIE WHITSON B
661 DAVE CONCEPCION IA C
663 HECTOR CRUZ C
664 DAN SPILLNER A
665 JIM CLANCY C
668 DALE MURPHY B
669 LARRY MILBOURNE B
670 STEVE KEMP A
672 BOB KNEPPER A
675 CECIL COOPER A
677 ALFREDO GRIFFIN C
678 TOM PACIOREK B
684 HAROLD BAINES A
685 BERT BLYLEVEN C
686 GARY ALLENSON A
690 DAVE KINGMAN B
691 DAN SCHATZEDER C
694 DAVE WEHRMEISTER C
695 WARREN CROMARTIE C
700 GEORGE FOSTER B
702 STEVE RENKO C
704 MICKEY RIVERS C
705 MICKEY RIVERS IA C
706 BARRY FOOTE B
707 MARK BOMBACK A
708 GENE RICHARDS A
710 JERRY REUSS C
713 DEL UNSER B
715 WILLIE STARGELL C
716 WILLIE STARGELL IA C
718 CHARLIE HOUGH B
720 GREG LUZINSKI C
721 GREG LUZINSKI IA C
722 JERRY MARTIN B
724 DAVE ROSELLO B
725 AMOS OTIS A
730 GARY CARTER A
735 RUDY MAY C
737 REGGIE CLEVELAND B
738 DAVE ENGLE B
739 JOEY MCLAUGHLIN A
740 DAVE LOPES A
741 DAVE LOPES IA C
742 DICK DRAGO C
743 JOHN STEARNS B
745 BAKE MCBRIDE C
747 JOHN LOWENSTEIN B
748 MARC HILL B
751 RICK HONEYCUTT B
753 TOM BROOKENS A
754 JOE MORGAN A
757 TOM UNDERWOOD B
760 BILL BUCKNER C
761 DAVE SMITH B
764 STEVE SWISHER B
765 GORMAN THOMAS A
767 ROY SMALLEY C
768 JERRY GARVIN A
769 RICHIE ZISK A
771 RICH GOSSAGE IA C
775 BOB FORSCH A
776 MARK BELANGER C
777 TOM GRIFFIN B
778 KEVIN HICKEY A
780 PETE ROSE A
781 PETE ROSE IA A
782 FRANK TAVERAS A
784 MILT WILCOX C
788 WOODIE FRYMAN A
790 LARRY GURA A
792 FRANK TANANA C

bishop

Come on Bob....show us your Trammell and Henderson....and the Morris I covet as I sit here looking at my gray signature version of it.

jimtb

Bishop, post a pic of the gray Morris - I'd like to see it!
Jim

BigtimeBowmanfan

Ah i see, thats very interesting. Thanks for the list Bob. Now to go rumage through my 82 topps.

bishop

Jim

Bob and I both completed Blackless sets recently, working with some great collectors in Michigan and New York. If I was not so inept from a technological stand point, I could post all three. But, as Bob well knows, I am useless on that front, which is why I was trying to get him to post his Henderson and Trammell. Also, his Morris is a clean one, and probably the hardest in the set to get in pure Blackless form. I could fax or mail you color copies

bobsbbcards

Sorry for the delay. Very busy day. Here's a scan of the Morris:

bobsbbcards

Here's the other two:

helionaut

I've been looking for the Bake McBride blackless for a long time. I've never seen one offered for sale, but I know they're out there. IIRC, it was shown in an article in Baseball Cards magazine way back in 1982 when the variations were discovered. While they are a production error, I think they are of sufficient interest to be deemed variations.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>I've been looking for the Bake McBride blackless for a long time. >>


McBride is/was a very tough card to get. I'll post the picture when I get home. Good luck finding one. I'll have to search around for that issue of BBC Magazine and read the article.

jimtb

bobsbbcards,
Your pics didn't post, can you try again?
Bishop, both you and Bob have completed set? Holy Moly!! How difficult were the cards on sheet C??
Jim

bobsbbcards

<< <i>bobsbbcards,
Your pics didn't post, can you try again? >>


They posted but my website is currently down. I've got some computer geeks currently working on it.

bobsbbcards

Good old geeks. I'll buy them new pocket protectors to show my gratitude.

jimtb

Holy crap, there it is! The first Tram blackless Tram card that I've seen in at least 12 years. Thanks for posting the pic Bob, I'll take two.

bobsbbcards

Jim,
According to SCD, that should only cost you $12.
Bob

jimtb

SCD: on the cutting edge!

bishop

I think Bob would agree with me that the 82 Blackless set, with the exception possibly of the 88 Cloth, ( I still need 6 of those if anyone has any they want to sell), was the hardest Topps set of the 80s to complete. Harder than the 85 Minis and 84 Encased, although they are pretty tough as well ( Bob...I still think you need to do the 85 Minis in blank and regular back). Irronically ,Bob completed his Blackless set through my contacts, and I completed mine through his.

Now what about those 55 Topps Stamps......

bobsbbcards

Here's the McBride:



Bishop,
I AM NOT DOING THE 1985 MINIS IN BLANK BACK. ONLY A NUTCASE WOULD DO THEM IN STAT AND BLANK BACK!
Bob

andrewlaw

I had PSA grade a Bucky Dent Blackless and they didn't add anything to the label to reflect this...so I sent it back to them asking them to correct the label to reflect the "Blackless" which they did without any issues...

bobsbbcards

<< <i>I had PSA grade a Bucky Dent Blackless and they didn't add anything to the label to reflect this...so I sent it back to them asking them to correct the label to reflect the "Blackless" which they did without any issues... >>


Their official position when I've asked is that they don't grade them (as blackless). I'd love it if they'd grade them. Maybe I'll ask again (or have you ask for me).

andrewlaw

Here is the picture hopefully...

ajw

<< <i>I think Bob would agree with me that the 82 Blackless set, with the exception possibly of the 88 Cloth, ( I still need 6 of those if anyone has any they want to sell), was the hardest Topps set of the 80s to complete. Harder than the 85 Minis and 84 Encased, although they are pretty tough as well >>



Ummm...for those of us as ignorant as I am, can you give a little history behind the 88 cloth and 84 encased? I've never even heard of them, so I'd love to hear a bit about the sets and maybe even see a scan or two.

AJW.

bishop

The 84 Encased and 88 Cloth "sets" are listed in the SCD Standard Catalog.

The Encased Cards, which can be found in sheet form or as singles, were likley an early "proof" sheet. There are 66 of them and they are blank backed. They differ from the regular set, and from regular proof cards of that set , in that the little inset photo is totaly "encased" within the box, while in the regular issue the hat or head extends beyond the box. SCD ( 05) lists the sheet at $650 and the cards individually at $ 800. Like with the Blackless, it is obvious from Lemke's prices that he has never tried to build a set himslf.. The Ryan is the big card in the set, although there are two error cards involving Carlton and Gary Mathews in which their insert pictures are switched that are also tough.

The 88 Cloth seem to have been an experimental offering. The Catalog list 121 of them. They are the size of regular cards but in a heavy cloth texture format...more substantial the the 76 Prototypes of Apodaca and Dyer. They are blank backed and have the same fronts astheir 88 regular card counterparts.

Maybe Bob will be good enough tp provide an example of these as well. I could mail or fax you color copies

jimtb

andrewlaw,
I can't see your pic - can you repost it?
Thanks!
Jim

andrewlaw

apparently I have no clue what I'm doing with regards to putting a pic on the website...can someone quickly explain how I should go about getting this pic in my message

thanks in advance...

bobsbbcards

Here are two of the 1984 Topps Encased proofs. Don't have the regular cards handy to scan, but note as Bishop says that the cap doesn't extend out of the small box. Also note that Garry Maddox and Steve Carlton aren't really the same person.



Here's two examples of the 1988 Topps Cloth Experimental stickers. The letters on Benedict are part of the phrase "SAMPLE ONLY NOT FOR RESALE". This message always appears across the same cards on each sheet.



It's said that dipping one of the '88 Cloth cards in water will result in a baseball card sponge but I've been afraid to try.

andrewlaw

A third attempt

jimtb

Wow, that's the first PSA graded card that I've seen with that on the label. Sometimes PSA's inconsistencies in what they will or won't do drive me crazy.
jim

andrewlaw

like i said they didn't do it originally about 6 months ago when i had it graded...then a 2 weeks ago I included with an order and asked them to correct the label...5 days later i got it back with the Blackless label...

I wonder if they changed their policy?

bobsbbcards

<< <i>I wonder if they changed their policy? >>


Assuming that somebody from PSA reads these forums, I'd think they'd chime in soon about whether this was the result of a policy change or something else. Considering that 1982 Topps Blackless cards were not proofs, not sheet cut, and definitely were issued in wax packs, they should be gradeable by PSA.

bishop

Bob
If I were you, I would burn all my Blackless cards in protest.

jimtb

Burn 'em all except for the Tram card. Mail that one to me.

jimtb

Here are the 84 Trams side by side. Note that one of the head shots is completely in the box, the other is enclosed in the box:

jackstraw

On the head in the box cards, is the backs the same? I (because I have zero life) check most all PSA graded 82 Ryans just to see if I can score one cheap .

jimtb

The backs are blank. It is believed that these were proofs.
Jim

jimtb

I've never seen or even heard of the 88 Cloth before!