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Maybe Shilling on eBay is Just the Norm and We Should All Get Used to it.

braddickbraddick Posts: 23,967 ✭✭✭✭✭
I had this colorful Morgan on my watch list and watched it end, two days ago on the 28th. (Notice how the "winner" bumped up the price with multiple bids):
Closed Auction

It now, magically turns up again, same seller, today:
Offered again! Same coin. Same seller


The Shiller did purchase this though:
Secrets to making money on eBay

I wonder what chapter Shilling is covered in? image

peacockcoins

Comments

  • 21Walker21Walker Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭
    My only response to this......If you are silly (stupid) enough to bid on scams like this.... enjoy your losses.............Rick
    If don't look like UNC, it probrably isn't UNC.....U.S. Coast Guard. Chief Petty Officer (Retired) (1970-1990)

    EBAY Items
    http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrlamir
  • Has anybody ever bought seller pondbottom's secrets to making money on eBay? I'd like to see what it says since the promo for it is specifically for selling coins on eBay. And I'd really be interested in the part of showing everybody where and how to obtain coins at rock bottom prices.


    Jerry
  • Well, Bradstang_99 is not going to make much money buying crap from aboncom and estates-by-weight. It appears to me that Bradstang is not a shill ---- perhaps he is a newbie with buyer's remorse and backed out of buying the toned Morgan. Maybe an e-mail to the seller of the toned Morgan would be worthwhile -- if you are still interested in the coin.
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    pondbottoms...what an appropriate ID...
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    The top bidder won the auction by only 49 cents which leads me to believe he wasn't a shill. More then likely he begged off and the seller let him off the hook. I have encounted this in other auctions. Send the seller a message if your interested but I believe $175.99 is on the high side for a ICG MS64.
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • I suspect shilling is more the norm than people think. This buyer may have just realized the guy was a slease selling PCI overgraded junk and backed out. I love the computer mailed book on how the be a millionaire selling coins on ebay. I wish someone would buy it and find out the real "secrets" of pondslimes trade!!
    morgannut2
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    braddick and to whomever else it may concern,

    Regarding that toned Morgan dollar......

    That was MY auction on Ebay, yes MY auction. About 9 hrs. after the auction ended, the buyer emailed me to tell me he would not be able to pay for the coin because one of his sales fell through (a likely story). He subsequently offered me about $25.00 via Paypal to cover my Ebay listing and sellers fees, which I accepted since there's not much else I could do in that instance, and didn't want some deadbeat bidder leaving me a retaliatory neg. I then simply re-listed the piece on Ebay.

    I have also filed a non paying bidder report with Ebay regarding that auction,,,,and believe it or not, that idiot buyer bradstang actually DID keep his word and Paypal'd my girlfriends Paypal acct. the funds he said he would plus an extra couple dollars to cover the Paypal fees.

    I really resent these 100% false insinuations that this auction involved shill bidding. I sell VERY few items on Ebay and have NEVER EVER shill bid on anything, nor would I ever even consider doing something like that under ANY circumstance or scenario.

    Incedentally, that guys real name is Bradley Byrd, and I would suggest that anyone here block him as a bidder based on my experience with him.

    dragon image
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    and to my fellow forum member 'manofcoins'..........

    Next time.........before you send accusatory and nasty emails to me via Ebay, have a couple facts under your belt first, it will make you appear to be less of a jackass that way image
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Real good Howard, but how about your shilling on this board?

    What, sour grapes? Yes, I don't like being ignored.
  • The simple fact is I didn't think that this was shilling at all, just buyers remorse. And said so. But ANYONE who reads these

    boards knows that auctioning any combination of nice rainbow toning on a Morgan PLUS a third world slab,

    sends off alarm bells here. There is no other combination I've seen that makes for more instant arguements. Why oh why

    not just send it to ANACS for quick, cheap turnaround, or sell it raw as-is with 3/5 day no questions return?
    morgannut2
  • MillertimeMillertime Posts: 2,048 ✭✭
    Is it considered shilling if you're unsure what your max bid would be and you lowball a bid then start increasing by a few dollars to get an idea of the ceiling? I've actually done that on quite a few auctions (but usually it's on auctions that are under $50). I'll place a bid a little bit over the current bid and then increase a little at a time until I'm high bidder or decide I really dont' want it. Sometimes if I get outbid I'll increase a little more or just quit while I'm losing. On items I really want I'll usually decide my max and then snipe it with 5 seconds left.

    So does that make me an unethical bidder? I have always honored any auctions I've won and usually before I receive an invoice. I have never bid on an item without expecting to follow through with payment if I won, I'm just not always decisive about how much I'm willing to pay. When I first started on eBay I'd place a bid as soon as I saw the item and if I was high bidder then chances were I'd win the item. Not anymore. It's not over until that final second is gone.
  • For what it's worth, I've placed nearly $30,000 in bids at this Heritage with only 4 figures in savings account. I "mark'the

    coins on the "my Bids" option that way so I don't have to scroll through a zillion coins; just watch the prices on

    those of possible interest. And I'm no shill; in fact I like to see if the my bids are getting bid up way over what you'd see

    normally 2 full weeks prior to auction with just 1 other bidder. Then I get a might suspicious that a owner or their dealer is

    running up bids.

    I just list those as POSSIBLE shill bids. When 6 or 7 are going at it though, then that tells you

    something also--it's a coin a lot of people want/need. There really are a lot of strategys in auctions, and shilling

    isn't the only explanation for oddball patterns.






    morgannut2
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    <<< But ANYONE who reads these

    boards knows that auctioning any combination of nice rainbow toning on a Morgan PLUS a third world slab,

    sends off alarm bells here. There is no other combination I've seen that makes for more instant arguements. Why oh why

    not just send it to ANACS for quick, cheap turnaround, or sell it raw as-is with 3/5 day no questions return? >>>



    morgannut2, Anyone who knows ANYTHING about toned dollars can CLEARLY and immediatly see that coin is nothing more or less than a 100% original bag toned, relatively low grade common date dollar. The coin is original, and it is what it is, regardless of whos plastic it's in.

    IMO, it is absolutely pointless to spend the time and money having a coin like that re-graded by anyone else, ESPECIALLY ANACS.

    But since you've been here on the CU forums for all of 3 months, and seem to be such an expert on Morgan dollars and grading services, I'm sure you already knew all this........right?


  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
    It seems that modern society is making cynics out of us all. When I see printed advertisements, I still feel it is a scam. We are all becoming so skeptical that the legitimate ones still look bad to us.

    Tom
    Tom

  • I am not too sure "bradstang_99" is a shill. It is the only (current) bid OR purchase from that particular seller. I am a big believer in HISTORY...and this bidders history does not deal with that seller.
  • Geezzz people face it, it wasn't a shill and you jumped to conclusions a little early. Mistakes happen. Now lets all have a group hug and get over it.
  • this and other things like this is what turns me off to this board.

  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295


    << <i>The simple fact is I didn't think that this was shilling at all, just buyers remorse. And said so. But ANYONE who reads these

    boards knows that auctioning any combination of nice rainbow toning on a Morgan PLUS a third world slab,

    sends off alarm bells here. There is no other combination I've seen that makes for more instant arguements. Why oh why

    not just send it to ANACS for quick, cheap turnaround, or sell it raw as-is with 3/5 day no questions return? >>



    ICG is not exactly a third tier slab. I've crossed many of them at PCGS with no downgrades or bodybags. The coin in question is NT.
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295


    << <i>Dragon how come NO accusatory or name calling on this one ? >>



    Because he knows better.
  • Skipping the auction in question which the owner has explained and going on to the broader question. There is no doubt that shill bidding exists on EBAY. What one must do to counter the occasional encounter with a shill bidder is very simple. Do not bid more than you first decide to bid. Do not up your bid. Let the shill bidder win his own stuff. That will stop them quicker than anything. Im not talking about not upping flagging bids. If you flag bid, you still have a maximum bid in mind. Do not up your maximum bid for any reason and forget about shill bidders. image
    In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    eagle7 good point. Happened to me on ebay a while back. I bid on some Morgans a guy had up for sale, a shill bidder bid them up too high and won them. Next week I won them for way less, works for me.image
    Becky


  • << <i>The simple fact is I didn't think that this was shilling at all, just buyers remorse. And said so. But ANYONE who reads these

    boards knows that auctioning any combination of nice rainbow toning on a Morgan PLUS a third world slab,

    sends off alarm bells here. There is no other combination I've seen that makes for more instant arguements. Why oh why

    not just send it to ANACS for quick, cheap turnaround, or sell it raw as-is with 3/5 day no questions return? >>



    Where are you getting this third world slab stuff from?? As K6 said, ICG is not exactly third world, and is considered part of the "Big 4" (albeit at the bottom of the Big 4). But certainly ICG should not be grouped with PCI, NTC, or ACG.

    Dragon, that's fine coin, and I hope your auction goes well. Ironically, that would have been "Bradstang's" smartest purchase to date, far better than the crap he bought from "aboncom" and "estates-by-weight".

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    Thanks Coinhusker1. It's Ebay item number: 3950012357.

    Incedentally, braddicks name is now mud in my book for starting this falsely accusatory thread.
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    No harm done either way here- shake hands and put it behind you. I am glad Pat started this thread because I like the coin and am going to place a bid on itimage. mike
  • Since I'm being requoted here let me at least state my MAIN POINT---When a NON big three service toner coin shows up on

    these boards/Ebay, there ALWAYS is some sort of arguement. The simple solution is a Full and FAIR refund policy, OR

    authentication by the big three. It doesn't matter if it's a darn ex: Wayne Miller Morgan plate coin--there's always

    some dispute, and there doesn't need to be one.
    morgannut2
  • The coin sold for $225. Congrats, Dragon --- you got $25 out of Bradstang and $50 more on the auction this time around!! image

  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭

    I walk up the prices with multiple small bids on Ebay all the time. When the dealers quit cancelling auctions with 1 minute to go, I'll stop walking bids.


  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe Shilling on eBay is Just the Norm and We Should All Get Used to it >>

    shill-bidding is w/out question THE BIGGEST PROBLEM w/ ebay. it's a bigger problem then coin doctors, it's a bigger problem then fraudulent pay-pal schemes it's a bigger problem then deadbeat bidders (or sellers).

    knowing that , if you bid on ebay, YOU as a bidder NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for accepting that shill-bidding exists, & it ain't going anywhere.

    so i can't really disagree w/ your premise. ebay used to allow shill- bidding, & they should have left it that way. at least then, EVERYONE would know what to expect.

    ebay will never, ever ever ever stop shill bidders.

    K S
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    oops, just read the rest of this thread regarding dragon. i don't know anything about that particular instance or whether or not he shill bid anything , nor do i care in the slightest. my previous post was addressed STRICTLY to the premise of the original post in this thread.

    K S
  • PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    I have to chime in here for two reasons:

    1. Regardless of the plastic the coin was in, I have to agree with the seller, that a common date Morgan dollar shouldn't have to be broken out of it or cross-graded. My guess is, if you know Morgans either you can detect the quality of the coin through decent pictures or you can send the coin back.

    2. ICG is NOT third rate. Period. I agree that they are perhaps a bit questionable in the high grade moderns but I've had amazing experience (as well as many of the dealers I've worked with) with them across the board (classic circ's, classic proofs, etc.). In fact, I've been disappointed with their grading in the opposite direction where I think they were harsher than they should have been.

    I do agree that the level of critical concern rises as the value of the coin rises and it happens to be in a bizarre holder (NTC, ACG, etc.). Then it looks like you might be trying to exaggerate the coin a bit. Wouldn't it be ironic if the coin crossed to a higher grade at PCGS or NGC? image

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