Here’s how the promoters of modern coins can solidify their credibility.
BillJones
Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has anyone else noted how when someone writes a negative comment about high priced, high grade modern coins, the modern coin hawks dive in for the attack? Not much of what they have written is very convincing IMO, but here’s two things they could do to silence their critics.
1. Write a book about the rarity of EACH modern coin issue to date in high grade. They don’t have to get EVERYTHING right. The classic books on everything from half cents to Civil War tokens came out in multiple editions as more information came to light and more collectors started making notes. All they would have to do would be to make the rarity estimates CREDITBLE. That means that they would have to differentiate between issues that were common, not so common, scarce, very scarce, rare and very rare. They couldn’t say that EVERY modern issue was rare in high grade because that would stretch their credulity. They would have to provide useful information as to what was common, scarce or rare. Even if they were wrong on some things, that would be OK. After all no researcher gets it right the first time. That’s what the subsequent editions are for, and that what brings in additional dollars to the publishers and authors.
2. Get listing in popular price guides like “Coin Values” (the Coin World magazine) or better still the Gray Sheet. If the high grade modern coin promoters could do that, they will have improved their credibility 100 fold. In the old days, dealers who sold error coins lobbied the Red Book publishers to include that variety in their book. If that happened the variety got immediate credibility. The same would be true for the high grade modern coin sells.
If you attack your problems these ways you could gain considerable credibility in the market. Otherwise it’s just your critics word against yours. Creditable presentations go a long way toward justifying high prices. Complaints and personal attacks upon your critics do not.
1. Write a book about the rarity of EACH modern coin issue to date in high grade. They don’t have to get EVERYTHING right. The classic books on everything from half cents to Civil War tokens came out in multiple editions as more information came to light and more collectors started making notes. All they would have to do would be to make the rarity estimates CREDITBLE. That means that they would have to differentiate between issues that were common, not so common, scarce, very scarce, rare and very rare. They couldn’t say that EVERY modern issue was rare in high grade because that would stretch their credulity. They would have to provide useful information as to what was common, scarce or rare. Even if they were wrong on some things, that would be OK. After all no researcher gets it right the first time. That’s what the subsequent editions are for, and that what brings in additional dollars to the publishers and authors.
2. Get listing in popular price guides like “Coin Values” (the Coin World magazine) or better still the Gray Sheet. If the high grade modern coin promoters could do that, they will have improved their credibility 100 fold. In the old days, dealers who sold error coins lobbied the Red Book publishers to include that variety in their book. If that happened the variety got immediate credibility. The same would be true for the high grade modern coin sells.
If you attack your problems these ways you could gain considerable credibility in the market. Otherwise it’s just your critics word against yours. Creditable presentations go a long way toward justifying high prices. Complaints and personal attacks upon your critics do not.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
0
Comments
i can't speak for others, but why would i want to do what you suggest?? turning the tables on you, i would suggest that you might want to get your facts right before you assail entire populations/series' of coins and their proponents with little or no knowledge about the assertions you make. my critics generally silence themselves with their own ignorance. besides, most of what you ask has already been done for the coins i collect.
al h.
My EBay Store/Auctions
In the past those who wanted to promote a certain series of coins wrote books or articles about them to publicize their business and/or interest. Is proposing that out of line? I guess for Keets it is.
Your #2 -Get Listings in the Greysheet.
Below are what coins are ALREADY Listed in the Greysheet, and have been for many, many Years.
The Greysheet Lists ( And has For YEARS) DEALER Bid and Ask for the following moderns:
All 50c Commems MS and PR.
All $1 Commems MS and PR.
All $5 and $10 Gold Commems, MS and PR.
All Silver Eagles, by date, MS and PR.
All $5, $10, $25 and $50 PR and MS Gold Eagles, by Date, from 1986 to 2003.
All MS and PR Plat coins, from 1997 to 2003, by denomination and date.
The Greysheet also lists all Modern Proof sets, Mint sets, Ike Dollars, Sac Dollars, Modern BU Rolls in MS, Pr Clad and PR Silver, as well as PR Clad and Silver State Quarter rolls.
I think this represents a significant portion of the Modern Coin Market. Just the "Facts".
Wondercoin
Coin values has been publishing prices for grades up to MS-67 for moderns since early
last year.
Krause and CDN haven't done this yet but it would seem to be a matter of time.
Promoters of Modern coins don't have a credibility issue.
CladKing; Wondercoin; Datentype, and others seem to be doing just fine.
I've witnessed more of the Modern Dealers willing to educate than the Classic Dealers. They're less snooty too.
peacockcoins
On the other hand, I have enjoyed Frank's series on Frankies, very much. The high quality color photographs really help make his points, but alas, they might make the book prohibitively expensive to publish. The modern collectors here have quite a bit of knowledge and would be readily accepted as experts if they published their findings. Examples:
Russ and Marty on Kennedy's or mint/proof sets
Keets and DHeath (I think) on Jeff nickels
Cladking on just about everything--maybe a comprehensive general book for the contemporary modern coin collector
Bow Tie Coins on Lincoln Memorials (maybe that one is a stretch
I would gladly buy, read, and learn from any of these books and more.
the books you propose have already been done, at least the ones that i reference. CDDaughtrey just had his first run on a fine book for the Lincoln Series, the Jefferson Nickel Analyst was just revised in 2002, Rick Tomaska just put out a second edition of Proof Coinage of the 1950-1970 Era, etc, etc.
proposing the idea isn't out of line, however, i would call into question your motivation for proposing the idea. you don't understand the market and instead of just making things simple and admitting that, you choose to find fault with what those who do know the market say. cladking is one of your favorite targets and he probably has forgotten more about Modern Coinage than you can hope to learn in the next 10 years!!!
They couldn’t say that EVERY modern issue was rare in high grade because that would stretch their credulity. They would have to provide useful information as to what was common, scarce or rare.
i don't think that many collectors say that, it's an inference of your own making. more often what is said goes along the lines of certain grades being the point where an issue becomes very difficult to find, and it varies by series. if you were paying attention to the discussion in these threads, you'd more than likely already know certain issues which were tough and at what grade they become really tough.
it's simple, really. the information you'd like us to prove to your satisfaction in a book are all available here for free, all you need to do is ask and await the answer. as far as prices being listed in publications, what those publications choose to print is their choice. i'm confident that they'll realize they need to print them soon enough. besides, some of that stuff is really a joke anyway and is often criticized by you and others as being outdated and incorrect even before it's published. shame on you for trying to hit us over the head with that club!!
al h.
<< <i>At one point I even purchased Rick Tomaska's book on Frankies, but I did not enjoy reading it, and I got rid of it. >>
You bought the wrong book.
Russ, NCNE
though there is some mention of these coins in Breen's encyclopedia, The Cherrypickers' Guide,
Wexler and Flynn's "The Best of the Washington Quarter Doubled Dies", and Feigenbaum's "The
Complete Guide to Washington Quarter. There is some basic information in Rapsus's "The US Clad
Coinage". There are also several highly esoteric pamphlets and essays written on the clads by
writers in the numismatic press and experts like Herbert Hicks.
None of these books is even close to be comprehensive and none cover clad coins in much detail.
The clad quarters definitely deserve far more coverage than they've gotten to date and this will
likely change as time goes on.