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What would you do with this body bag situation...

tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
Let's just say you bought a nice coin that is graded by PCGS as AU58 in an old green holder but you are 100% confident that it should grade at least MS63 comparing it to others you have in your collection. So, you crack it out and send it in. However, you get it back in a body bag stating "filed rims". Sure enough it has a very small segment of the reverse rim that does appear to have file marks. When I say small segment, I am talking from 11 o'clock to maybe 1 o'clock.

When the coin is in a holder, you can't see the rim. It's hidden by the holder.

Do you send it in again hoping the next grader doesn't see it? Do you send it to NGC hoping they will grade it then have it crossed? Forget about it, no one will ever certify it.

Comments

  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What kind of value are you talking here?
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • 1957 quarter?



    image
  • tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    Somewhere between $75 to $125 depending on grade. Nothing big. The first submission was a freebie. I have freebies to NGC. I liked the coin for a registry set.
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Tough choice. I may risk one more time if I could do it cheap. Otherwise I'd be mad they didn't catch it the first time and bag it and just leave it raw.


  • << <i>Somewhere between $75 to $125 depending on grade. Nothing big. The first submission was a freebie. I have freebies to NGC. I liked the coin for a registry set. >>



    Too bad you didn't send it in for regrade instead of cracking it out. They
    would have paid for the coin.
    image
    Please check out my eBay auctions!
    My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not send the coin back to PCGS. If I had to have it in a slab I would try my luck with ANACS and, at worse, get it noted on the slab. I know that does no good if your trying to put it in a set.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • BladeBlade Posts: 1,744
    Tmot99,
    Go read the Q&A section from David Hall on this topic. Never crack a PCGS coin for an upgrade. There is no benefit to you. They will remove it from the holder and the graders never know it was previously graded. When the finalizer is done, if the grade is higher than perviously, it will stand. If the grade is lower, it will be reviewed and you will be compensated for the lower grade/body bag.

    Now cracking out coins in other company's holders is another matter. Just don't crack PCGS when sending to PCGS. Tough lesson learned.
    Tom

    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

    Type collector since 1981
    Current focus 1855 date type set
  • BladeBlade Posts: 1,744
    By the way, I wonder if PCGS had looser BB standards back then. This may have been a true MS63 coin that was net graded down to an AU58 due to the small filing.
    Tom

    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

    Type collector since 1981
    Current focus 1855 date type set


  • << <i>Just don't crack PCGS when sending to PCGS. Tough lesson learned. >>



    image

    Cameron Kiefer
  • tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    I have a tough time accepting that they will give the "current standard" higher grade if the coin is sitting in a lower PCGS holder. I know they say they crack it out and send it to the graders without a clue as to the first grade. Personally, I don't buy it.


  • << <i>I know they say they crack it out and send it to the graders without a clue as to the first grade. Personally, I don't buy it. >>



    Don't buy it, but it is true.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    Cammy, I am curious how you know this. Have you seen it or just taking their word?
  • I have been in the grading room before but have not personally seen them crack the slab and hand it to the graders......

    I go by:

    1. I have never had a PCGS slab returned with the same old scratched up slab and label. If it doesn't grade higher it comes back in a new slab @ the same grade.

    2. No dealer has ever complained about it. If they were getting screwed by PCGS with a fake policy you would know. Believe me!

    3. I know past graders and they say it is true.

    4. David Hall says it happens like this, and he would not lie to our face like that.

    If you don't buy it what makes you believe they won't switch your coins....etc.... What do you base your theory on? I've given mineimage

    Cameron Kiefer
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I just let it go. From what I can tell, there is no need to break out when sending to PCGS. I would send coins in their holders, and let them break them out.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    This isn't meant to be a bash PCGS thread.

    I don't doubt that they crack the coin out, but the original grade is kept somewhere and I would not be surprised that the grqaders don't have access to it if they wanted it.

    The purpose of the thread is to get advice from the forum on what to do with this coin now.


  • << <i>The purpose of the thread is to get advice from the forum on what to do with this coin now. >>



    Stick to the purpose then and don't ask why I think what I do. I just wondered why you thought your way. Believe what you want but it is wrong.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dems-da-breaks in the "crack-out" game...ya rolls da dice and ya takes da chance, yo may win or you just may crap out.


  • << <i>I have been in the grading room before but have not personally seen them crack the slab and hand it to the graders......

    I go by:

    1. I have never had a PCGS slab returned with the same old scratched up slab and label. If it doesn't grade higher it comes back in a new slab @ the same grade.

    2. No dealer has ever complained about it. If they were getting screwed by PCGS with a fake policy you would know. Believe me!

    3. I know past graders and they say it is true.

    4. David Hall says it happens like this, and he would not lie to our face like that.

    If you don't buy it what makes you believe they won't switch your coins....etc.... What do you base your theory on? I've given mineimage

    Cameron Kiefer >>




    To your knowledge is it this way at NGC as well?
  • OK. Now I'm scratching my head over this. image

    I have always heard that if you are going to re submit a PCGS coin you should crack it out first.

    Logic says only three things can happen if you send it back in the PSGS slab;

    1) They down grade it and have to pay you the difference in value. That's not good economically and an admission of an error.

    2) They upgrade it and that is also an admission of error.

    Neither of those things are good for PCGS, both financially and reputation-wise.

    3) You get it back in a new holder at the same grade and PCGS makes a few bucks and solidifies their reputation as being consistent graders.

    The first two possibilities seem unlikely for the reasons stated, the third seems most likely for the obvious reason stated.

    Now, over time, I've come to respect Cameron's opinions on things PCGS and slab concerned.

    So, I'm still scratching my head here. What to do regarding a PCGS resubmission..........crack it out...........don't crack it out...........image
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff


  • << <i>What to do regarding a PCGS resubmission..........crack it out...........don't crack it out........... >>



    Depends on the coin and your ability to grade and how sure you are what it will come back at. I'm not saying to send everything in the slab. Heck no.

    I have always gotten better grades cracking and sending them in raw myself! I'm just defending PCGS in the fact that they crack the slab prior to sending it in to the graders.

    Cameron Kiefer

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