If you see a Heritage auction coin in an old PCGS holder, can you assume...

RYK

that it is not an upgrade candidate?

Heritage prides itself for its ability to maximize bidding for its consigners and one way it does this is by maximizing the grades. Logic would suggest that if you see a PCGS coin (or any slabbed coin) in an older style holder, it was deemed by at least one expert NOT to be an upgrade candidate.

Example:
The Cincinnati Collection offered at FUN is a terrific group of better date and branch mint gold coins, most of which appear circulated an original. (I am salivating on my keyboard as I type!) The coins are primarily housed in old green PCGS holders and new generation NGC holders. My assumption: the new NGC holdered coins were previously in PCGS holders and have upgraded. What remains in old PCGS holders are the coins that did not or would not upgrade (in some expert's opinion). Is there anything to this?

kieferscoins

Just looking at those 2 preview pages you linked I do not see any newer NGC slabs. They are all 3 years or older NGC slabs and some are even the old fat boy slabs from the early to mid 1990's.

Cameron Kiefer

morgannut2

You can make no such assumptions that they won't upgrade. Many wise sellers know their material is undergraded and wish to sell it that way, together with some items that are not. The Dr. Huffnagle Morgan Dollar Collection is an example at the Heritage Fun Auction where much of the collection is in older green PCGS holders and fat NGC slabs. The upgrade potential creates a "buzz" about all the coins.

foodude

Who knows.

If I'm bidding serious money, I look at the coin in person, have someone I know (that knows what they are doing) look at the coin forme, or in some cases, will call the auction house and have one of the catalogers with coin in hand, answer questions about the coin. I prefer the first two options- Doesn't matter if it is in an old holder or new holder, it's the coin that matters

Dahlonega

For many reasons it was elected to leave the Gold Rush collection (Platinum night) in their original holders... well over half the collection is in first generation PCGS holders, many in green label holders, few older NGC holders and most of the rest 10 -15%? blue PCGS holders. Some of the coins will bring double upgrades plus a DCAM designation(IMHO) but, rather than 'max' them out main reason was to let the coins speak for themselves. To the best of my knowledge none of the coins have been regraded or reholdered. Of course the quality and originality of the coins are unbelievable. Therefor, I think there are many potential upgrades in the other parts of the FUN auction.

KentuckyJ

> The upgrade potential creates a "buzz" about all the coins

I agree. The original assumption is false. Coins in old holders speak for themselves, as does any slabbed coin. Not everyone plays the upgrade game. My personal .02¢ is that a collector gets just as far leaving a nice coin in an old holder. Then, you can say PCGS hasn't seen the coin in X number of years. Most buyers will already be thinking of the possible upgrade potential, even if the coin is in fact correctly graded by today's standards.

KJ

TUMUSS

The safe assumption would be that "most" first generation PCGS coins for sale on Heritage either would not upgrade, or no significant profit could be made from a successful attempt to upgrade.

MrEureka

Logic would suggest that if you see a PCGS coin (or any slabbed coin) in an older style holder, it was deemed by at least one expert NOT to be an upgrade candidate.

Even if this were true, which I doubt, I can't imagine how bidders could benefit. Bidders still have to outbid dozens of experts on every coin.

RELLA

<< <i>Logic would suggest that if you see a PCGS coin (or any slabbed coin) in an older style holder, it was deemed by at least one expert NOT to be an upgrade candidate. >>



I think it takes more than one expert to properly assess whether or not some coins are, in fact, "upgrade candidates". I would try to explain my reasoning behind this but past experience has taught me that this just leads to pain and frustration for all involved.

RELLA

edited for spelling

edited a second time to change "a coin is" to "some coins are"

stman

No intent of of sarcasm here but all this emphasis on this board of which holder, old holder new holder is just ridiculous.
I was explaining these things to my 13 year old Granddaughter and she just gave me the deer in the headlights look.

And she did understand what I was saying. Her comment was... "But Grandpa, what is the big deal about the holder? It's actually in the way of seeing the coin anyway." Ah, she hasn't been exposed to all the commercial aspects of coins. Thank Gawd!!!!!

roadrunner

A resounding NO. Heritage is not perfect and even they have trouble upgrading coins at times. Besides, if it doesn't upgrade, it improves their chances of buying it out of the auction and trying again later. Some coins may take multiple trips and up to a year to exhaust the upgrade potential.

First gen holders are just a beacon indicating a coin or group of coins could be seriously undergraded. And typically, a fresh deal from the 1980's nearly always is.

roadrunner

RYK

A follow-up question:
Who ultimately decides whether a consignment to Heritage makes the regrading rounds: Heritage or the consigner? Or does it depend on the deal? I can see advantages and disadvantages to regrading a collection in older holders.

If I'm bidding serious money, I look at the coin in person, have someone I know (that knows what they are doing) look at the coin for me...

Obviously. I am not asking about whether to bid on the coin based on what the holder is. I am curious about the consignment process, Heritage's grading processes, etc. On any coin of significance, I never bid on a coin unless it has been viewed by a trusted representative. I am experienced enough to know that I am NOT to be trusted.