Grade Revealed: MS-62 PL -- 1890-CC Morgan Dollar -- Photos

Stuart

This 1890-CC Morgan Dollar is one of the third-tier certified coins that I originally purchased about a year ago on E-Bay which I am going to send in to PCGS to attempt to have certified.

This coin has appreciated significantly in value over the past year, so it will be interesting to see how it does. I'd like to poll the forum to see what grade you'd like to assign to it... (the small line at top of the reverse is not a scratch on the coin -- it's a bit of filament looking thread that was holdered with the coin -- before I cracked it out )

What grade would you give it??

Coinhusker1

I guess 63. Looks like some slide marks on the obverse.

ziggy29

I said 63, assuming the slide marks are as prominent on the coin as the pictures make them look. Even then it could make 64 on a good day but given the huge gap in market value from 63 to 64, I doubt if the TPGs would stretch it that far. An 1884-CC of this quality might make 64, but I don't know about an 1890-CC.

mtnman

Are the marks on the coin or the plastic? If they are on the plastic, I think it could be a 65.

kieferscoins

MS-64.

Cameron Kiefer

coinbuf

Looks like a shot 65, very pretty and original looking.

Chris

wam98

anablep

MS64 PL

Shamika

I can't believe that coin could be PL. My guess is MS63.

morgannut2

I would say it's a 64, but I have a PCGS63PL that is almost a twin so the graders might just be hard in this particular date. On the other hand, my 90CC NGC63*DPL crossed this week at PCGS, and it has more marks on the lower check so 64 is not a streach for your example IMHO. My entire opinion assumes that the cheek has a lot of very tiny, hard to see luster breaks, which I presume are not photograhic/old holder marks type artifacts. Of course luster is also important on this date--some are quite dead looking, high luster/frosty pieces will do better.

Stuart

<< Of course luster is also important on this date--some are quite dead looking, high luster/frosty pieces will do better. >>

MorganNut2 and others: The luster on this coin is far superior to what is shown in my photo posted earlier in this thread (also below).
Since you cannot possibly tell from the photo, I'll tell you that the fields of this morgan, athough certainly not DMPL, have a legitimate shot at PL.

If the coin falls short of the PL designation, if it an upper quartile grade coin, it may get a bump to the next highest grade due to the significant eye appeal "pop" due to the contrasting fields and devices.

K6AZ

Stuart, you left out the body bag option.

Stuart

<< Stuart, you left out the body bag option. >>

Eric: You are correct, that's always a possibility. However, I'll take the optimistic path with this one, because I think that she's a solid MS-63 with a 50/50 shot at MS-64, and about a 20% shot at 64-PL.

fountainheadgold

nice coin, i think ms63

K6AZ

Stuart, have you sent in anything that even remotely resembles a PL Morgan to PCGS lately? If you haven't, you're in for a shock. I'll put it this way - anything I have that is even close to PL goes to NGC.

Stuart

Eric: The first grouping of PL/DMPL Morgans that I submitted to PCGS was in April, and the second batch was in August fo this year. I did very well on both of those submissions.

Have PCGS' PL/DMPL designation standards changed much in the past 4 months??

K6AZ

It could be they changed after my last submission Stuart. Starting in 2002 and continuing into early 2003, I submitted seven PLs and DMPLs to them - two were broke out of ANACS DMPL holders, four out of NGC PL holders, and one out of a NGC DPL holder. They bagged all seven of them as altered surfaces. One of the ANACS DMPLs was sent back to ANACS who again graded the coin as a DMPL, the other six went to NGC who again graded all with their original PL/DMPL designations.

RYK

I guessed 64PL. Please let us know what grade PCGS assigns. Thanks, Robert

Stuart

Eric: Thanks for the heads-up on your recent PL/DMPL submissions to PCGS. Sorry to hear that PCGS was so tough on your coins.

I'm going to send these in for economy grade service level, and if I hit 1 or 2 of the key dates it'll still be well worth the cost of the multiple coin submission.

I do appreciate your cautionary advice, and your consideration for passing it on to me for guidance on my next submission!

K6AZ

Stuart, here is one of the coins they bagged as altered surfaces. The coin was submitted raw, broke out of an ANACS MS64DMPL holder. I sent the coin back to ANACS raw, who once again graded it 64DMPL.

morgannut2

I just want to support what K6AZ is saying. At the economy level I've had several PL NGC Morgans come back recently without the PL designation, but upgraded to MS 64's. I even had a PL with a DMPL reverse (3" refl. obv., 8" rev.) that I bought raw from an ex: PCGS grader as an MS 61+ come back no PL (again in 64!!!!). My only explanation is that there are a group of new employees at PCGS grading the economy submissions. There was zero problem crossing a 90CCDPL at the higher fee level, so perhaps the concept of all PL's having "clear watery fields" (PCGS submission explanation on website) is being carried a bit too literally by new graders unless anyone has another idea. I appreciate the handsome $ profits for the higher numbers, but this isn't helping me one bit with my PL Registry set!!

MORGANHUNTER2

Just a little food for thought folks. A few moons ago I didi my 'newbie' submission of an 84cc that by any other day and TPG would have slabbed at a 64, but this lady came back as a 62! I took the issue up with Mr. DH, and the response that came back has me reeling in a fit of anger- quote- We grade them like we see them! well I'm not whining- but if the fact is that they have separate graders for economy vs express vs walkthrough, and the level of expertise is in the same fashion? then I will never submit another coin here to be graded again, in fact I was so pissed at DH's comment- I told him how I felt about his 'proffesional' standards and requested he pull my modern submission and send it back with a refund- I'll send it 'across the street' and have it accurately graded by those who take their profession a little more serious. Apparently the attitude of one person can help bring down the house. I intend on taking this one a step or 2 further.

Stuart don't send it econo- you may not be happy.

lava

Word on the street has long been that PCGS is stricter now with its pl and dmpl designations. That's ok, as long as it remains consistent. I am currently approaching the situation from the opposite perspective. I have 2 coins in pcgs holders that ARE graded pl, and I have sent them in under the guaranty because I do not believe under today's PCGS standard that they would grade pl, and I don't feel comfortable selling them as such. At this point, I feel:

1. puzzled that I'd have to pay a submission fee to essentially make a claim on an insurance policy I purchased as part of the initial submission.

2. somewhat frustrated that the submission, at the regular service level, is very late, and no results as of yet.

Stuart

<< Stuart don't send it econo- you may not be happy. >>

First of all, thanks very much to all of the forum members who have been kind and generous enough to share your recent PCGS grading experiences with me and provide me with your advice via your thread posts for my upcoming Morgan Dollar grading submission.

MorganHunter2: Thanks for the above advice. I happen to have 2 service upgrade certificates which I could use to submit this group of 8 Morgans, under the standard $30 Grading Service Level, allowing me to use the $16 Economy Grading Fee.

Based upon your comments perhaps that would be a good approach, which would only cost me one additional postage & handling fee of approx $15, since I will have to write them up on 2 seperate invoices (4 coin per invoice limit when using the 4 coin upgrade certificates).

This information is very timely and very much appreciated, as I plan to ship these off prior to this weekend! Thanks again!!

MORGANHUNTER2

Has everyone received the letter from PCGS- rates are going up for submissions on 1/01/05. I glanced at it yesterday(it's dated 12/01) found it amusing that in this world of tough economics- dave wants to take more $$ to grade slowly and somewhat inconsistently. it may only be a 2 dollar increase, but the turnaround time did not go down- 65 days and will go up again according to a youngster I spoke wioth yesterday- they think it will go to 90 days after the 1st.

Good luck Stuart- I like the 99 you have also looks very good. bought a few goodies this weekend- whenb the come home to daddy- I'll post a pic- I have my setup- now it's time to shoot and shoot steady....

JRocco

Hi Stuart. First off- another beautifil coin you have there. Second- I agree 100% with Eric on this one. I recently sent in this 90CC I cracked out of an ANACS DMPL slab and PCGS BB'd it for altered surfaces ??????? I know this pic isn't that great, but you can get the idea--This coin DOES NOT have altered surfaces.

Stuart

JRocco, Eric and others: So, based on your recent grading experiences with PCGS, what's going on? Why do you think that they are BB'ing coins which you feel are not altered?

Could there be some faint hairline scratches resulting from a previous light wiping, either on the cheek or in the fields, which may be causing PCGS to BB them?

I know that PCGS is very tough and unforgiving on coins with any minute evidence of what they perceive to be hairlines from an old gentle wiping to remove fingerprints, etc.

Thanks in advance for your additional thoughts on this...

Stuart

Thanks for those of you who participated!! I appreciate you applying your grading expertise and taking the time to share your opinion about the 1890-CC which I'm going to send in for grading at PCGS.

The coin was graded MS-62 PL in an old PCI (Green Border Label) holder with a 10 digit serial number. There are many coins from this generation holder that were conservatively graded, which can sometimes qualify for an upgrade.

After seeing this coin in person, I think that it's a lock MS-63 with a legitimate shot at MS-64 because of it's nice nearly PL surfaces, and the resulting high luster from the Semi-PL fields that contrast with the devices.

Approximately 72% of the responses agree with my estimated grade range, and are between MS-63 & MS-64 PL.

I'd appreciate if the 17% of you who estimated either MS-65 or MS-65 PL would please send me PM's with your e-mail address, so that we can negotiate an MS-65 market price for thhis coin in the $5200-$5700 price range!!! (Just Joking)

Thanks again for your participation!!