Eureka - Yes, of course you meant it. You also posted a link to this story in the most widely read coin forum in the world so all at the same time you are saying "Hey look everybody, here's this totally degrading article.........about a guy who I (apparently) admire!"
HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!
(You also timed your positive comment so as to make it look like your comment was in defense of Jim when in fact my comment was not critical. )
Do you have regrets about posting a link to this article? I would.
The article is a slam job (an unethical attack that is written with the purpose of unfairly disparaging another) that is created to give the appearance of objectivity by making a few complimentary statements like the one they said about Stacks.
You, with the good brain you have, should have come forward and said up front...."here's an interesting article, but read it carefully before you jump to any conclusions.....
(I'm being called for dinner and tinsel....catch you later.)
I do not think Mr. Eureka had any motives in posting the article and it is not degrading to Halperin or Heritage. It is what happens when a genius grader(read the article) with a photographic memory for grading(read the article) makes it big. Why is everyone thiking it's that negative of an article?-----------------------BigE
<< <i>I stay away from the registry set battle, or even having one. And you have to be discilplined when buying at auction. You just have to realize, once you pass the reserve, you MAY be bidding for a coin the auction site owns, not a collector or dealer. >>
As long as the price you pay for the coin is fair what difference does it make who owns it. If you overpay you have no one to blame but yourself.
Far as heritage adding it's own coins to the auctions, I mean duh, this is a problem to some people?
When I worked there way back when heritage still used a "mainframe" computer, Jim would come into the coin room and wipe out whatever inventory was there ( there was rarely anything that good anyway) and put it in the bullet sale. It's called cash flow and in those days of a declining market, why would anyone with a brain inventory material knowing ( or feeling fairly certain) that it was going to be worth less in a matter of hours or days? So while the "buyers" were thinking about it, talking to their wifes about an offer , mulling it over, etc etc blah blah, OUT it went to the sale.
Smart business.
Now I just love to compete with them on better material. I feel like a pirhana swimming around a whale.
The article is a slam job (an unethical attack that is written with the purpose of unfairly disparaging another) that is created to give the appearance of objectivity by making a few complimentary statements like the one they said about Stacks.
I hardly think the article "unethical." It has myriad facts, and I see nothing "unfairly disparaging." Unless you claim the asserted facts are false -- is that what you are saying?
You, with the good brain you have, should have come forward and said up front...."here's an interesting article, but read it carefully before you jump to any conclusions.....
Nonsense. No such language is necessary, now or in the future. Members are quite cabable of using their own judgment on the matter, without flowery babble about reading "carefully."
First let me say that articles such as this are of a real determent to our hobby. Where as many of us that read this might pick out some of the better parts of the article, the general public will view this as an article as how crooked the major players are in our market. This is typical garbage written by those that are involved in the PAPER investment markets, and jealous of any area that they cannot not manipulate or affect.
The owner of this rag of a magazine has cost the American investor billions of dollars with the bad advise he has given investors over the years, and he is a blueblood Wall Street type that never worked a day in his life, and his only claim to fame is that he was born into the right family.
This magazine and its counter part T.V. show, Forbes On Fox, are consistently full of bad advice, and knock at every opportunity any investment that is not made of PAPER which that they and their cronies in N.Y. can not make a buck on.
As far as Heritage goes, my personal experience is that that are a fine honest company. If they think that some of the client’s coins are under graded and submit for re-grades they are just doing their job. Are they perfect, NO. Do they make mistakes, YES. Do they sometimes get grading favors, I would doubt they get much along those lines as consistently over graded coins would soon be discovered and ruin the reputation of the grading firms.
I suppose the man was right when he said that the only thing worse than bad press is NO press, but I think that many of our large coin dealers might consider NOT giving interviews to those magazines pushing STOCKS.
My only contact with New England Rare Coin Galleries when Dana Willis owned it was a few months before it closed. At the time I was working on the set of Indian $2.50 gold coins that I have shown on this forum a couple of times. I had reached the point where I needed to find the 1911-D, which is the key coin to the set.
I stopped by the store and asked a gentleman there if he had any 1911-D quarter eagles in stock.
“No,” he said but he did have examples of the 1927 and 1928 coins that were priced at $2,700 and $2.800 respectively. At the time (the mid 1980s) I did not think that there was a ’27 or ’28 quarter eagle on the planet that was worth that much.
“What grade are you looking for?” the clerk asked me.
“I’m looking for one in AU, preferably in AU-58 if you use that grade,” I replied.
“We don’t bullion coins here,” the clerk replied.
At that moment I realized that I was dealing with someone who knew very little about coins. So I decided to give him a bit of an education. “The coin I want is the scarcest date in the Indian $2.50 set. It sells for $1,100.00 to $1,500.00,” I said.
“Oh well then in that case perhaps you should leave us your name and address. We do get lower grade coins in from time to time,” he said.
I declined his offer and left the store.
The New England Gallery did have a very impressive looking street level store at the time, but this experience it was easy for an advanced collector to see that they did not know very much about the coin business.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Always interesting to learn something else about people about whom you've already fashioned a firm impression.
For the past several years, I have felt free to call Mr. Halperin about items of special interest (Three Cent Nickel proofs, im my case) in Heritage's inventory and auctions. He has never failed to retrieve them for his review, and to email me within the day about the items in question. His opinions have steered me away from over-graded specimens, problems, ones he knew I would not like, and he has encouraged others as PQ, particularly attractive, etc. I have shown him items at shows, where he has freely shared his unique eye and expertise. I've found his opinions to be spot-on, and likely have saved me a bundle over the years. Once very early in our relationship, Heritage listed an item somewhat below what they'd intended. Mr. Halperin called me and told me they'd honor the purchase.
Good business practices? Obviously. Special treatment? Perhaps. But one has to be impressed with his service and his straight-forward opinions, as well as the visionary and innovative success and general reputation of this company.
My opinion of the article is that I'm glad they didn't write an article about me. If Jim Halperin is a crook, he's masked it well since I've been back in the hobby (1999).
Far as heritage adding it's own coins to the auctions, I mean duh, this is a problem to some people?
Your realtor has found a house for you. It’s a new listing and you need to move fast. There is new expensive set of homes going to be built on the street.. He checked it out and everything and it’s a steal. After you close escrow you find out its owned by the realtors family trust and has been listed for month. Down the street was a toxic waste dump.
You need a special antique for your set. Your dealer looks around and says they found one for $2000. Perfect condition. Their fee would be 5%. You buy it and find the dealer paid 900 for it and that it has some hidden repairs. You paid 2000 and a 5% fee.
Would you ever do business with these people again?
I’d have no problem if they disclosed what coins are owned by them. But as far as I can tell, the coins we consign are just filler to create an illusion of impartiality. How can you trust their descriptions? Do you think they descibe thier owned coins the same as the consigned ones? Ok, it's fine for the experienced dealer/collector who is there and can see the difference, but what about the novice or the Internet bidder, the rely on these descriptions. Would they be happy if they got a lemon and found out it was owned by the auction house?
My sole impression of the article, is that Jim Halperin is an astute, successful, businessman. Imagine: he made $100,000 as a 13 year old, back in 1965. You could buy a new Corvette back then for under $6,000 !! Coins are big businesss, and all coin collectors should realize that. Jim Halperin and Heritage are so far ahead of all the coin auction houses, and the gap is increasing, considerably, every year!!!! I can think of a few other major coin dealers who would make for an even more interesting read. Thats the problem, when you become so well known and successful, all the skeletons come out of the closet, and Everybody has those Skeletons!
I did not find the article to be a slam, although Forbes might have had a less than objective slant. Every business over the last 30 or 40 years has success, drama, speculation, growth, questionable practices, & mistakes. If you don't understand our little multi-billion dollar cottage industry ( and many outsiders don't) it's easy to focus on the negative.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
A very important point alluded to in the article was the naivety of collectors to believe that Heritages coins are held to the same grading standards when Heritage has an ownership interest in PCGS and NGC.
As I have said, this ain’t no game for boys in short pants.
<<I’d have no problem if they disclosed what coins are owned by them. But as far as I can tell, the coins we consign are just filler to create an illusion of impartiality. How can you trust their descriptions? Do you think they descibe thier owned coins the same as the consigned ones? Ok, it's fine for the experienced dealer/collector who is there and can see the difference, but what about the novice or the Internet bidder, the rely on these descriptions. Would they be happy if they got a lemon and found out it was owned by the auction house?>>
Why does it matter who owns them if they are promoted and described in a like manner? Depending on the auction/sale the coin is returnable no matter who owns it. Would you feel better if you bought one you dint like and it was mine? I would be more concerned about employees bidding on house owned coins just to generate an appearance of an interest in the coin that may or may not be real. I would be even more pissed if I had a similar coin listed and they were promoting theirs at the expense of mine.
Jim Halperin made a number of advanced collectors unhappy with him when he ran New England Rare Coin Gallery. Back then the major clubs refused to endorse his nomination papers to run for ANA offices. Most of the offenses mentioned in the Forbes article were pretty well known among the leading New England collectors. Yet, his business did well until the big crash that took place in the early 1980s.
Since moving to Texas, Halperin's business practices have greatly improved. I think that he many of learned some lessons from his New England days, and that's much for the betterment of the hobby.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Far as heritage adding it's own coins to the auctions, I mean duh, this is a problem to some people?
Your realtor has found a house for you. It’s a new listing and you need to move fast. There is new expensive set of homes going to be built on the street.. He checked it out and everything and it’s a steal. After you close escrow you find out its owned by the realtors family trust and has been listed for month. Down the street was a toxic waste dump.
You need a special antique for your set. Your dealer looks around and says they found one for $2000. Perfect condition. Their fee would be 5%. You buy it and find the dealer paid 900 for it and that it has some hidden repairs. You paid 2000 and a 5% fee.
Would you ever do business with these people again?
I’d have no problem if they disclosed what coins are owned by them. But as far as I can tell, the coins we consign are just filler to create an illusion of impartiality. How can you trust their descriptions? Do you think they descibe thier owned coins the same as the consigned ones? Ok, it's fine for the experienced dealer/collector who is there and can see the difference, but what about the novice or the Internet bidder, the rely on these descriptions. Would they be happy if they got a lemon and found out it was owned by the auction house? >>
Interesting thread and article. While the Forbes' focus was on Jim Halperin and Heritage, many of the concerns expressed are generic in the coin industry. The motivation for selecting the specific target of the article is unclear other than the fact that he/they is/are "successful" and therefore "fair game". It is obvious from the responses on this thread that many of you active participants share great concerns about the industry. There is no doubt in my mind that the numismatic world has a great deal of room for improvement. It would be good for dealers and collectors to change the image and fact of the rare coin business from its present status to one where there was more confidence in the integrity of the participants. This is a very large industry with hundreds of millions of dollars trading hands regularly; we should all have a vested interest in a fair and honest playing field.
In my humble opinion, the vast majority of problems stems from a few seeds (try to imagine the following being stated by Chris Farley in his classic fassion):
1) coins are collectibles on the cusp of being "investments"; people buy coins before they know what they they are doing (because of greed and stupidity), then when they want out (to use their money for some other "better" money making "investment" like NASCAR commemorative plates) 18 months later and find out that the spread is WAY larger then they ever imagined (and also never cared to ask about), they cry "poor me", I was "taken advantage" of (quick call a governmental authority or lawyer or better yet, teams of both). One "solution" to this might be to have a lawyer generated triplicate form with many words and phrases in 18 point emboldened and underlined type describing every imaginable risk associated with coin collecting including the inexplicable abandonment of the hobby by every numismatist leaving every coin investment as totally worthless.
2) the grading of coins is subjective and until PCGS and NGC consult experts in statistical analysis and other areas to determine how to grade coins in more highly replicable ways (so they end up in the same holder as they started out in, which can be done in better fashion then it's being done now), "crack outs" (and other "problems") will always exist which will lead people to believe again that some nefarious activity is taking place - they the public is being "taken advantage" of.
(most "problems" stem from a lack of education; you certainly can't make people learn how the coin business works or make them learn how to grade; all you can do as a collector is learn and all you can do as a dealer is protect yourself.)
The main thing that bothers me is that Heritage likes to impress upon their consignors that they can 'work' the consignor's coins to maximize the grade - and the principals are major shareholders in a grading service.
While I don't necessarily feel that a dealer being a shareholder is a conflict of interest, the marketing angle does seem to create one.
Dealer buys coin. Dealer sells coin to collector at 15% markup. It's expensive, very rare and somewhat esoteric.
Collector, after 1 year, decides he wants to sell it.
Collector offers dealer that coin and another very expensive coin. Dealer buys one coin but not coin in question.
Collector puts coin in question into very large auction, unreserved.
Coin sells for small fraction of original selling price.
What erroneous conclusion might collector come to? (That dealer over charged him in the first place because the coin didn't bring much money at auction.)
"A reputable dealer will offer a far price for any coin they have sold. "
As the statement is framed, yes - a reputable dealer would never offer an unfair price for a coin he has sold.
However, there are sometimes when a dealer will make no offer on a coin he has sold (unless he's going to offer an amount of money that is some fraction of what he knows he can immediately broker the coin for and why not just tell the collector where to sell the coin).
-- he doesn't want to carry that type of coin anymore
-- he already has one or more in inventory
-- he's dead
-- he just bought a huge amount of coins and he's tapped out and will be for quite some time
I think all this hand wringing about the deleterious effect of the article is much ado about nothing. Average Joe Collector doesn't even read Forbes, and the collectors that do will, for the most part, be sophisticated enough to already know that there are sometimes shenanigans behind the curtains of many successful businesses.
Actually there are always these human interest types of stories in Forbes and even more so, the Wall Street Journal. Their readers generally don't take them as seriously as many forum readers seem to think. I would sepulate that there might be another older New York City auction house providing some of the expert information that a usual N.Y.C. based reporter wouldn't know. Believe it or not, there are old time houses that still sell perfectly fine raw coins, and are not fans of the interlocking relationships of SEVERAL newer firms with the TPG's. It actually concerns me as well, because I'm always suspicious of newly upgraded material magically appearing at internet sales, when the coins sure look identical to ones sold earlier two grades lower!
I agree with Russ. Other than fodder for us to masticate here, I doubt that the article will have much of an impact on coin collecting or the coin business.
Fascinating article. I find it interesting that anyone is surprised and/or bothered by the way in which the information was presented - any story on Halperin that ignored his run-ins with the law and other past shenanigans would be a pretty dry read, and entertainment value seems to drive 99.9% of all journalism today. Perhaps the information presented in Forbes will dissuade a few people from buying coins as an investment in the future, but I would suspect that it will have very little effect on those who are already active participants in the market.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Thanks for all of your comments. So that you will also have my side of the story, here is a link to an annotated copy of the Forbes article with my footnotes. The footnotes also contain another link to the text of a public 1989 letter by former FTC Commissioner George Douglas. Douglas's letter was released by him at about the same time as the FTC's press release posted above.
Best regards, Jim -------------------- James L. Halperin Co-Chairman Heritage Galleries & Auctioneers World's Largest Collectibles Auction Company 3500 Maple Avenue, 17th Floor Dallas, Texas 75219 Phone 214-528-3500 Direct fax 214-520-7108 mailto:Jim@HeritageGalleries.com === Take our survey to qualify for free auction catalogs http://HeritageGalleries.com
<< <i>Thanks for all of your comments. So that you will also have my side of the story, here is a link to an annotated copy of the Forbes article with my footnotes. The footnotes also contain another link to the text of a public 1989 letter by former FTC Commissioner George Douglas. Douglas's letter was released by him at about the same time as the FTC's press release posted above.
Best regards, Jim -------------------- James L. Halperin Co-Chairman Heritage Galleries & Auctioneers World's Largest Collectibles Auction Company 3500 Maple Avenue, 17th Floor Dallas, Texas 75219 Phone 214-528-3500 Direct fax 214-520-7108 mailto:Jim@HeritageGalleries.com >>
Thanks for the link. There was no doubt that there was more to this story than appeared in the article. Simply having the same business partner for twenty years says a great deal about a man and he way he runs his affairs.
Thanks for the link. There was no doubt that there was more to this story than appeared in the article. Simply having the same business partner for twenty years says a great deal about a man and he way he runs his affairs. >>
Ditto and I might add, same wife, business partner and best friend for this period. Says a lot.
Comments
Maybe one or the other, but I meant it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!
(You also timed your positive comment so as to make it look like your comment was in defense of Jim when in fact my comment was not critical. )
Do you have regrets about posting a link to this article? I would.
The article is a slam job (an unethical attack that is written with the purpose of unfairly disparaging another) that is created to give the appearance of objectivity by making a few complimentary statements like the one they said about Stacks.
You, with the good brain you have, should have come forward and said up front...."here's an interesting article, but read it carefully before you jump to any conclusions.....
(I'm being called for dinner and tinsel....catch you later.)
Not at all. It's news and it warrants discussion. But more importantly, I thought that people would actually WANT to read the article.
And for the record, I really do admire Jim. Not that I consider him a saint. Or a fiend.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I stay away from the registry set battle, or even having one. And you have to be discilplined when buying at auction. You just have to realize, once you pass the reserve, you MAY be bidding for a coin the auction site owns, not a collector or dealer. >>
As long as the price you pay for the coin is fair what difference does it make who owns it. If you overpay you have no one to blame but yourself.
When I worked there way back when heritage still used a "mainframe" computer, Jim would come into the coin room and wipe out whatever inventory was there ( there was rarely anything that good anyway) and put it in the bullet sale. It's called cash flow and in those days of a declining market, why would anyone with a brain inventory material knowing ( or feeling fairly certain) that it was going to be worth less in a matter of hours or days? So while the "buyers" were thinking about it, talking to their wifes about an offer , mulling it over, etc etc blah blah, OUT it went to the sale.
Smart business.
Now I just love to compete with them on better material. I feel like a pirhana swimming around a whale.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I hardly think the article "unethical." It has myriad facts, and I see nothing "unfairly disparaging." Unless you claim the asserted facts are false -- is that what you are saying?
You, with the good brain you have, should have come forward and said up front...."here's an interesting article, but read it carefully before you jump to any conclusions.....
Nonsense. No such language is necessary, now or in the future. Members are quite cabable of using their own judgment on the matter, without flowery babble about reading "carefully."
<< <i>Tom, in times like this smoebodys got to do it
Si Senior'
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>I hate when someone points out that the whole hobby is rigged. It takes the fun out of coin collecting for a few minutes. >>
Thankfully you only lose the fun for only a few minutes.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
The owner of this rag of a magazine has cost the American investor billions of dollars with the bad advise he has given investors over the years, and he is a blueblood Wall Street type that never worked a day in his life, and his only claim to fame is that he was born into the right family.
This magazine and its counter part T.V. show, Forbes On Fox, are consistently full of bad advice, and knock at every opportunity any investment that is not made of PAPER which that they and their cronies in N.Y. can not make a buck on.
As far as Heritage goes, my personal experience is that that are a fine honest company. If they think that some of the client’s coins are under graded and submit for re-grades they are just doing their job. Are they perfect, NO. Do they make mistakes, YES. Do they sometimes get grading favors, I would doubt they get much along those lines as consistently over graded coins would soon be discovered and ruin the reputation of the grading firms.
I suppose the man was right when he said that the only thing worse than bad press is NO press, but I think that many of our large coin dealers might consider NOT giving interviews to those magazines pushing STOCKS.
I stopped by the store and asked a gentleman there if he had any 1911-D quarter eagles in stock.
“No,” he said but he did have examples of the 1927 and 1928 coins that were priced at $2,700 and $2.800 respectively. At the time (the mid 1980s) I did not think that there was a ’27 or ’28 quarter eagle on the planet that was worth that much.
“What grade are you looking for?” the clerk asked me.
“I’m looking for one in AU, preferably in AU-58 if you use that grade,” I replied.
“We don’t bullion coins here,” the clerk replied.
At that moment I realized that I was dealing with someone who knew very little about coins. So I decided to give him a bit of an education. “The coin I want is the scarcest date in the Indian $2.50 set. It sells for $1,100.00 to $1,500.00,” I said.
“Oh well then in that case perhaps you should leave us your name and address. We do get lower grade coins in from time to time,” he said.
I declined his offer and left the store.
The New England Gallery did have a very impressive looking street level store at the time, but this experience it was easy for an advanced collector to see that they did not know very much about the coin business.
For the past several years, I have felt free to call Mr. Halperin about items of special interest (Three Cent Nickel proofs, im my case) in Heritage's inventory and auctions. He has never failed to retrieve them for his review, and to email me within the day about the items in question. His opinions have steered me away from over-graded specimens, problems, ones he knew I would not like, and he has encouraged others as PQ, particularly attractive, etc. I have shown him items at shows, where he has freely shared his unique eye and expertise. I've found his opinions to be spot-on, and likely have saved me a bundle over the years. Once very early in our relationship, Heritage listed an item somewhat below what they'd intended. Mr. Halperin called me and told me they'd honor the purchase.
Good business practices? Obviously. Special treatment? Perhaps. But one has to be impressed with his service and his straight-forward opinions, as well as the visionary and innovative success and general reputation of this company.
My opinion of the article is that I'm glad they didn't write an article about me. If Jim Halperin is a crook, he's masked it well since I've been back in the hobby (1999).
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Less than flattering. >>
I'd say is is damning, and certainly eye opening!
Your realtor has found a house for you. It’s a new listing and you need to move fast. There is new expensive set of homes going to be built on the street.. He checked it out and everything and it’s a steal.
After you close escrow you find out its owned by the realtors family trust and has been listed for month. Down the street was a toxic waste dump.
You need a special antique for your set. Your dealer looks around and says they found one for $2000. Perfect condition. Their fee would be 5%.
You buy it and find the dealer paid 900 for it and that it has some hidden repairs. You paid 2000 and a 5% fee.
Would you ever do business with these people again?
I’d have no problem if they disclosed what coins are owned by them. But as far as I can tell, the coins we consign are just filler to create an illusion of impartiality. How can you trust their descriptions? Do you think they descibe thier owned coins the same as the consigned ones? Ok, it's fine for the experienced dealer/collector who is there and can see the difference, but what about the novice or the Internet bidder, the rely on these descriptions. Would they be happy if they got a lemon and found out it was owned by the auction house?
Really? When was the last times the Feds came by to make you return $100,000?
Joe
As I have said, this ain’t no game for boys in short pants.
Why does it matter who owns them if they are promoted and described in a like manner? Depending on the auction/sale the coin is returnable no matter who owns it. Would you feel better if you bought one you dint like and it was mine? I would be more concerned about employees bidding on house owned coins just to generate an appearance of an interest in the coin that may or may not be real. I would be even more pissed if I had a similar coin listed and they were promoting theirs at the expense of mine.
Since moving to Texas, Halperin's business practices have greatly improved. I think that he many of learned some lessons from his New England days, and that's much for the betterment of the hobby.
<< <i>Far as heritage adding it's own coins to the auctions, I mean duh, this is a problem to some people?
Your realtor has found a house for you. It’s a new listing and you need to move fast. There is new expensive set of homes going to be built on the street.. He checked it out and everything and it’s a steal.
After you close escrow you find out its owned by the realtors family trust and has been listed for month. Down the street was a toxic waste dump.
You need a special antique for your set. Your dealer looks around and says they found one for $2000. Perfect condition. Their fee would be 5%.
You buy it and find the dealer paid 900 for it and that it has some hidden repairs. You paid 2000 and a 5% fee.
Would you ever do business with these people again?
I’d have no problem if they disclosed what coins are owned by them. But as far as I can tell, the coins we consign are just filler to create an illusion of impartiality. How can you trust their descriptions? Do you think they descibe thier owned coins the same as the consigned ones? Ok, it's fine for the experienced dealer/collector who is there and can see the difference, but what about the novice or the Internet bidder, the rely on these descriptions. Would they be happy if they got a lemon and found out it was owned by the auction house? >>
That's all naive at best.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
While the Forbes' focus was on Jim Halperin and Heritage, many of the concerns expressed are generic in the coin industry. The motivation for selecting the specific target of the article is unclear other than the fact that he/they is/are "successful" and therefore "fair game".
It is obvious from the responses on this thread that many of you active participants share great concerns about the industry.
There is no doubt in my mind that the numismatic world has a great deal of room for improvement.
It would be good for dealers and collectors to change the image and fact of the rare coin business from its present status to one where there was more confidence in the integrity of the participants. This is a very large industry with hundreds of millions of dollars trading hands regularly; we should all have a vested interest in a fair and honest playing field.
Can you be specific about what in your mind needs to be "greatly" improved?
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
1) coins are collectibles on the cusp of being "investments"; people buy coins before they know what they they are doing (because of greed and stupidity), then when they want out (to use their money for some other "better" money making "investment" like NASCAR commemorative plates) 18 months later and find out that the spread is WAY larger then they ever imagined (and also never cared to ask about), they cry "poor me", I was "taken advantage" of (quick call a governmental authority or lawyer or better yet, teams of both). One "solution" to this might be to have a lawyer generated triplicate form with many words and phrases in 18 point emboldened and underlined type describing every imaginable risk associated with coin collecting including the inexplicable abandonment of the hobby by every numismatist leaving every coin investment as totally worthless.
2) the grading of coins is subjective and until PCGS and NGC consult experts in statistical analysis and other areas to determine how to grade coins in more highly replicable ways (so they end up in the same holder as they started out in, which can be done in better fashion then it's being done now), "crack outs" (and other "problems") will always exist which will lead people to believe again that some nefarious activity is taking place - they the public is being "taken advantage" of.
(most "problems" stem from a lack of education; you certainly can't make people learn how the coin business works or make them learn how to grade; all you can do as a collector is learn and all you can do as a dealer is protect yourself.)
adrian
While I don't necessarily feel that a dealer being a shareholder is a conflict of interest, the marketing angle does seem to create one.
Dealer buys coin. Dealer sells coin to collector at 15% markup. It's expensive, very rare and somewhat esoteric.
Collector, after 1 year, decides he wants to sell it.
Collector offers dealer that coin and another very expensive coin. Dealer buys one coin but not coin in question.
Collector puts coin in question into very large auction, unreserved.
Coin sells for small fraction of original selling price.
What erroneous conclusion might collector come to? (That dealer over charged him in the first place because the coin didn't bring much money at auction.)
A reputable dealer will offer a far price for any coin they have sold.
Auctions are not a one way road to riches. They are fraught with dangers,
skulduggery and machinations.
Camelot
As the statement is framed, yes - a reputable dealer would never offer an unfair price for a coin he has sold.
However, there are sometimes when a dealer will make no offer on a coin he has sold (unless he's going to offer an amount of money that is some fraction of what he knows he can immediately broker the coin for and why not just tell the collector where to sell the coin).
-- he doesn't want to carry that type of coin anymore
-- he already has one or more in inventory
-- he's dead
-- he just bought a huge amount of coins and he's tapped out and will be for quite some time
Your confidence is well placed. Coin dealing isn't the priesthood. It's more like selling used cars. Old used cars but used cars, nonetheless.
<< <i>I also don't believe that Heritage makes only 5 million net a year. >>
I agree. I suspect their profit margin is signficantly north of 8%!!
Russ, NCNE
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
http://www.heritagecoins.com/common/halperin.php
Best regards,
Jim
--------------------
James L. Halperin
Co-Chairman
Heritage Galleries & Auctioneers
World's Largest Collectibles Auction Company
3500 Maple Avenue, 17th Floor
Dallas, Texas 75219
Phone 214-528-3500
Direct fax 214-520-7108
mailto:Jim@HeritageGalleries.com
===
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Heritage Coin
World's Largest Numismatic Dealer & Auctioneer
Dallas, Texas
214-528-3500
Direct fax 214-520-7108
Link to annotated copy of Forbe's article with Mr. Halperin's footnotes
Jim, Thanks for taking the time to post to this thread!
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Here's a link that goes directly to the footnotes by Jim.
If you are too busy to read the whole article, just click the above link and read the footnotes. It is good to get both sides of the story.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
<< <i>Thanks for all of your comments. So that you will also have my side of the story, here is a link to an annotated copy of the Forbes article with my footnotes. The footnotes also contain another link to the text of a public 1989 letter by former FTC Commissioner George Douglas. Douglas's letter was released by him at about the same time as the FTC's press release posted above.
http://www.heritagecoins.com/common/halperin.php
Best regards,
Jim
--------------------
James L. Halperin
Co-Chairman
Heritage Galleries & Auctioneers
World's Largest Collectibles Auction Company
3500 Maple Avenue, 17th Floor
Dallas, Texas 75219
Phone 214-528-3500
Direct fax 214-520-7108
mailto:Jim@HeritageGalleries.com >>
Thanks for the link. There was no doubt that there was more to this story than appeared
in the article. Simply having the same business partner for twenty years says a great deal
about a man and he way he runs his affairs.
in the article. Simply having the same business partner for twenty years says a great deal
about a man and he way he runs his affairs. >>
Ditto and I might add, same wife, business partner and best friend for this period. Says a lot.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870