Home› U.S. Coin Forum

What is the lowest grade that a Mercury dime can have FB?

LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I recently saw an MS-63 with FB. I didn't know that this "low" a level can have FB. Am I wrong? Why is the typical grade to have FB?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)

Comments

  • dthigpendthigpen Posts: 3,932 ✭✭
    From some mercury grading charts I've seen, MS-63 is the lowest grade with an FB designation.
    Mr. Thigpen

    Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
  • coppercoinscoppercoins Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭
    I would imagine a strongly struck coin in AU could have full bands. Certainly any uncirculated grade could have full bands.

    Grade does not implicitly imply strike, and full bands is all about strike.
    C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
    The Lincoln cent store:
    http://www.lincolncent.com

    My numismatic art work:
    http://www.cdaughtrey.com
    USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
    image
  • JrGMan2004JrGMan2004 Posts: 7,557 ✭
    MS60 is the lowest an FB coin could be... FB is only designated on Mint State coins... an AU coin could technically be FB, but does not qualify...
    -George
    42/92
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    Interesting.

    I was just looking at a 36 Merc yesterday that is no better than XF, but it sure does have a beautiful full set of bands left. image
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • XpipedreamRXpipedreamR Posts: 8,059 ✭✭
    The pop report shows coins all the way down to the VG-VF range designated FB.
  • mercurynutmercurynut Posts: 3,207
    I saw an XF-45 with Fb.
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭
    Someone asked HRH this question severall months ago in the Q&A. For PCGS, I believe the lowest FB is MS60. The PCGS price guide reflects this. I'm not sure what is up with the Pop report, but it must be wrong. It lists FBs in the VG grade; how is this possible?
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not true on the Unc only status ... although PCGS no longer designates FB on less than a MS60, but I believe NGC still does.

    I have several 55/58 coins that are definately FB. One even has those great McD Arch type bands, and it's a 55+.

    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    I have a 1934 Merc which is not designated AU-58FB on the holder, but looks FB -- AND the cert lookup at the PCGS site shows it as 58FB -- cert #21378430.
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭
    I have a 1934 Merc which is not designated AU-58FB on the holder, but looks FB -- AND the cert lookup at the PCGS site shows it as 58FB -- cert #21378430.

    Looks like we have a topic/question for tomorrow night's Q&A. Since you have the coin, etc., do you want to submit the question?
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks like we have a topic/question for tomorrow night's Q&A. Since you have the coin, etc., do you want to submit the question? >>

    Okay, I've submitted the question to the Q&A for HRH.

    Here's the coin in question -- 1934 Mercury Dime, PCGS AU-58...or AU-58FB?? (Not listed on the slab as FB, but listed in the database as FB for cert verification.)

    imageimage
  • DonDebbieDonDebbie Posts: 51 ✭
    In uncirculated, you will not typically see the FB designation below 64. This is mainly due to the high population of uncirculated coins from the 40s in 65-68FB. PCGS will designate FB below 63. I own a 1916-D in MS62FB as proof!!image
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ziggy,

    that is probably the finest AU-58 around - hold on to that baby image

    btw, the FB issue here I believe is relevant mostly in mint state examples - I don't believe one that is collecting circulated pieces cares any less if the coin has or does not have split bands. The wear issue would have likely ticked in by then.



    marc
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭
    Here's the Q&A question I was thinking of. It seems to answer the question about FB designations below MS60, but it doesn't explain the Pop report listing of FBs below MS60, so we'll see what HRH has to say tomorrow night.

    link
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zig,

    Nice 34 ... not quite FB though (I don't think from the pictures).

    Marc,

    I disagree, strike is always an issue (at least for me). I'm actually surprised PCGS doesn't designate FB on 55's and 58's when they are full, because they do FH's on circulated Standing Lib's.

    The lowest PCGS FB's I have are 63FB's (including some earlier pieces and a really nice 39s) although I have seen a few 62FB's.

    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • coppercoinscoppercoins Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭
    Come on people...FB is a designation of strike...either the coin has it or it doesn't, no real rocket science here.

    If an EF coin shows full bands, it's FB regardless of what PCGS says. So they do only recognize FB for MS60 or above. That certainly doesn't mean that lower ones don't exist.

    Unless there was hidden meaning in Longacre's original post, I don't see where he specified "PCGS FB," and most of what he's getting for answers surrounds what ONE grading service does. Be a little more broad minded here. An FB is an FB whether PCGS admits it or not.
    C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
    The Lincoln cent store:
    http://www.lincolncent.com

    My numismatic art work:
    http://www.cdaughtrey.com
    USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
    image
  • JrGMan2004JrGMan2004 Posts: 7,557 ✭
    A big reason why you won't see too many really low MS grade Mercs designated FB, is because they are much more likely to have significantly more hits, and it's a good chance that one of those hits is right across the bands...

    I believe that with Mercs, as with Roosies, and Jeffersons, and Frankies, are only awarded the strike designators in MS state... I think that SLQs are a little different, in that the defining characteristics aren't effected by small amounts of wear or even small ticks... not so on these other coins. One tiny tick with take the best ever struck bands, into non-FB status... and again, it's the same for the other given examples...
    -George
    42/92
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Goerge,

    Excellent point ... it only takes one hit across the center to throw the FB status out the window, and that is certainly why as the grades go down there are a lot less of them. I have some really nice 63's from the mid 20's that are FB except for that one hit.

    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Todd,

    Other are mor eloquent but that is what I more or less meant in under MS grades the hits and all, the wear etc...I did not believe an FB designation means anything to anyone at that stage. JMHO though. Have a pleasant day.




    Marc
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nice 34 ... not quite FB though (I don't think from the pictures) >>

    It's not a strong FB, but with the coin in hand, I think it squeaks in...though it's admittedly a "borderline" case. The split isn't extremely well-defined across the entire middle bands (as evidenced by the picture), but the split is clearly complete -- so this would be a judgment call for most, I think.

    Hey, maybe that's what PCGS does with borderline coins -- they don't put "FB" on the label but they put it in their database when you look it up! image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my opinion 58 would be the cut off point. 55 could have FB but when you get down to that grade the wear becomes very apparant. If one is present in XF I sure would like to see the coin.

    Ken
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I asked this question to David Hall sometime back. I have a PCGS-55 16-d that has full bands that would re-grade today in a 58 holder. I was going to send it in for regrade, so that I could catch the FB designation, and have it on the holder, as I have seen other dated AU-58FB merc's holdered by PCGS in the past with the designation.

    However, David stated that PCGS only desiginates FB at Ms-60 and higher, so either the one's I have seen were a mistake, or they did designate coins FB in 58 at some point in the past??

    The 34 merc pictured above is a near miss FB IMO, not quite thier! Nice coin though!


    Thier are a few dates IMO, that having a designation of FB even as low as Au-58 might be worthy?
    45-p, 16-d, etc
  • DominusDeusDominusDeus Posts: 993 ✭
    my only mint state mercury dime...

    1944S, NGC MS66

    So close, yet, so far.

    image
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's an AU55 I have on Ebay now that's FB, and is not attributed. Besides the shameless self-promotion, I thought the pics might be instructive.

    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    45P and 16D are two great dates in 58FB but there are a few others that would be desirable also. 18D and S plus the 19D and S would be coins I would not mind finding in Full Bands.

    I do believe some AU58's with Full Bands are in the Pop Report. If they got there then I would think some are in collectors hands.

    Ken
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    I have also seen PCGS non MS Mercs with the FB designation. I think there is a different issue (potentially) at play, which I've observerd while collecting these little guys.

    From my own feeble vantage point, I view grading (and designation, specifically) as subjective no matter how much one tries to make it objective. A coin is -- somewhat -- like a piece of art and each one is appreciated differently by the observer. Everyone tends to zero in on something different.

    I have Merc's in 66FB and 67FB from PCGS where the FB is -- shall we say -- questionable. But they are on a common date coin, so hey -- it must have FB, right? I've also sent in coins that came back with non-FB designation, a 1945 Micro "s" for instance, which came back from grading as MS66 (no FB). I tell you a blind man can see the FB on this coin, you can even see the FB without a magnifying glass, but because of the date/issue, they're much more scrutinous of giving out the FB designation...keeping the exclusive Pop somewhat low.

    It's naive to think that the grading companies do not ultimately influence long term pricing on coins, and consequently their demand, based on their liberty to grant or withold designations. Hence, I believe the professional grading scheme might become more liberal (I've seen more 68's in the last month than ever) with time, but FB designations will become less liberal as time goes on (irrelevant of the grade).

    Meaning, if you have tough coins that have the FB designation on the slab (irrelevant of the grade)...put them away!

    Sorry to be somewhat long winded -- just my 2 cents image

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Home • U.S. Coin ForumComment As ...