OUCH! I think PCGS got this one wrong!

KenzoT

Just got results from an Express Special.
We sent in one of the most beautiful dollars I'd ever seen, an 1891-CC I felt had a shot at MS66DMPL! Except for a little haze in front of the face, the coin was pristine with a beautifully clean cheek.

PCGS is sending it back in a body bag as "altered surfaces."

I'd be the first to admit I'd been had if I thought that was even a possibility. This dollar was removed from a roll from the Lee Hoard of dollars. Any of you who may have purchased any of the 93-S or 94-P's we've been selling can attest, I do not mess with these coins, they are removed from the rolls sealed 40 years ago, placed in flips, and sent to PCGS. We have gotten a few coins back from PCGS graded AU-58 that I think need a little dirt removed and they will make 63 or better, but we just set those aside for later review, we don't clean anything and I wouldn't even know how to fake a DMPL. I hope they give me an explanation on why they feel the surfaces are altered.
This one will be fun to get opinions on, think I'll take it to Heritage first and let them look at it.
Can a coin just be too beautiful for anyone to believe?
I'll get some pix Friday when I go see Lee and post them this weekend.

kieferscoins

PCGS has seen great DMPL morgans before. They know what they are looking at. They still might have gotten it wrong. It doesn't mean you altered the surfaces but someone 40 years ago might have messed with it before putting it in a roll.

Cameron Kiefer

BigE

I had what I thought was a really choice cent, it also was returned altered surfaces, so i sent it back, came back the same. I looked at it under my microscope (after I got PO'ed the second time) and I saw a fine hairlied area of buff on the cheek. Take a close look at it before you send in again. Good luck on it though----------------BigE

clackamas

Maybe they thought that the haze on the face meant the coin had been thumbed. Send it to NCS to see if they can do something with it.

Russ

Your coin probably hit the Random Additional Revenue Generation Lottery.

Russ, NCNE

JRocco

Think about how many times that coin will be "paid for" before it finally gets the slab it deserved after one try.

coinguy1

KenzoT, PCGS has certified a single MS65DPL of that date and none higher.

So, sight-unseen, I'd say the odds of your having been correct were/are extremely remote, to say the least. And, based upon the lack of meaningful information we have at hand, I think it is unfair for anyone to presume that PCGS "got this one wrong".

Baley

Well, let's see some good pictures of the coin in question!

Russ

<< <i>I think it is unfair for anyone to presume that PCGS "got this one wrong". >>



Probably, but it's still a fun game.

Russ, NCNE

KenzoT

Thanks Coinguy1,
You just made up my mind to never post anything about the Lee Hoard again.
You question my grading ability?
SORRY, I evidentally am not an EXPERT on everything as YOU are.
You just lost to the Numismatic community the right to know what I have in my control here.
Sorry everyone else, the BRAINATICS like Coinguy1 have lost this to all of you forever.

nankraut

KenzoT: c'mon now. Is your skin that thin? Looks like Mark was simply making an observation. Anyway, I think his reputation as a knowledgeable numismatist is well established here. Lighten up a little, will ya?

BigE

Kenzo has senority, he joined a year before coinguy-------------------BigE

ER

<< <i>

<< <i>Thanks Coinguy1,
You just made up my mind to never post anything about the Lee Hoard again.
You question my grading ability?
SORRY, I evidentally am not an EXPERT on everything as YOU are.
You just lost to the Numismatic community the right to know what I have in my control here.
Sorry everyone else, the BRAINATICS like Coinguy1 have lost this to all of you forever. >>



Coinguy1 is considered by many here to be a true gentleman. Now if you were getting on my arse that might be a different story >>



Oh boy, pass the popcorn, please. Oh, and

coinlieutenant

Kenzo,

Mark meant no offense by it I am sure. You are overreacting my friend. Mark can grade about 99.99% of the people on this board under the table.
The only person you are hurting by leaving or clamming up here is you.

Was the coin out of an original roll/bag? Can you be sure of its wereabouts?

I am not saying that PCGS wasnt too tough on the coin. They are on a lot of stuff.
Sometimes you just have to take more than one bite out of the grading apple. If you trust your eye, send it back in...

Do anything but dont be a five year old and say the equivilent of

"I'm taking my ball and going home!!!!"

coinlieutenant

Coinguy1 is considered by many here to be a true gentleman

Lets not push the envelope too much now...

100proof1957

Kenzo,

Mark didnt call you out.

Rendered an objective opinion about the BB without even the benefit of a pix,but didnt grade Lee's coin.

You sent a POP Zero coin with none finer according to Mark and i dont doubt his POP number.

Send it to NCS and then on to NGC.

We all know its a great hoard and a once in a lifetime chance for any of us !

Please lighten up a little,Lee has made a ton o money on these and thats great,nobody will grudge you a profit on your service either !

You have garnered plenty of "YOU SUCKS" and you whine about one bad draw from a a PCGS grader that aint been laid in 6 months ?

Lets go have a drink and fegeddaboutit Brother !

Proof

Bochiman

I love how many people are making threats that they will "take their coins and go home" and deprive everyone else.
Ya know something? We may enjoy what you bring to the table and share, but the world went on before you did that and it will still go on without it.

Talk about overreacting!!!!!
No one said PCGS did NOT make a mistake but you are sure they did. You are also sure that YOU didn't make a mistake. Why not? Why aren't you human and could have missed something?
Sheeesh!

homemade

Kenzo,
It makes no sense to me why we should be so deprived. (sic)
Coinguy1 was merely stating pop reports.
He was not grading any coin you have seen.
If the coin you have is that incredible, then it will ultimately show.
If not, then all graders are b@#tards and should be shot.
Either way, if you are confident in your grading ability
then the market will bear it

poorguy

You question my grading ability?

Talk about a strawman fallacy. Geez! Mark never personally attacked you. Sounds like he inadvertently hit one of your buttons though.

Lighten up.

Newmismatist

<< <i>We sent in one of the most beautiful dollars I'd ever seen, an 1891-CC I felt had a shot at MS66DMPL! Except for a little haze in front of the face, the coin was pristine with a beautifully clean cheek. >>







<< <i>KenzoT, PCGS has certified a single MS65DPL of that date and none higher.

So, sight-unseen, I'd say the odds of your having been correct were/are extremely remote, to say the least. And, based upon the lack of meaningful information we have at hand, I think it is unfair for anyone to presume that PCGS "got this one wrong". >>



Until we see a picture of the coin, we can't determine anything except that someone thinks PCGS "missed" and someone else says statistics are on the side of PCGS - And even if we see a picture, its not likely that we could determine much from the image, particularly if the surfaces have been litely messed with by an "expert plastic surgeon" -

Based on only the opinion of the owner that PCGS got it wrong, it's a bit premature to "take up sides" and start a flame war, as none of us in the peanut gallery have seen the coin and any opinions (Mark's included) are pure speculation. The big difference in the grading game is that PCGS gets to put them in the plastic holder that says PCGS and none of the rest of us can do that, no matter how good our grading skills are.