Why do people pay good money for PR70's?

cary1952

Are we paying for a superior coin or a superior number?
How many graders at PCGS must confer before they give a coin a 70 rating? Do you think it is just more than random?
and finally................

In your opinion, is it worth the money? Could the PR70 market drop like a rock?

Cary

For the record, I own no PR70 DCAM coins at this point. Seems they are a minimum of 180-200 bucks on ebay. Is that correct?

coppercoins

You may be onto something.

kieferscoins

Minimum 2 graders see the coins at PCGS. Sometimes 3. Depends if the first two graders agree.

Have you seen any 70 coins in person? Seriously.

Cameron Kiefer

cary1952

This was a DEAD SERIOUS QUESTION! As a newbie, i have never seen a PR70 DCAM in person, or a PR69 DCAM for that matter either.

I have just recently purchased some PR69 DCAM's for a registry from ebay and paid around $10 each for them, but i havent received them yet. Other than that, I am clueless, so I hope you are not give me crap cuz i am new!

Cary

kieferscoins

I am not giving you "crap" I was just asking if you had seen a few in person. Questions like this sounded like to me you have bought some in the past:



<< <i>Are we paying for a superior coin or a superior number? >>



Cameron Kiefer

dthigpen

<< <i>This was a DEAD SERIOUS QUESTION! As a newbie, i have never seen a PR70 DCAM in person, or a PR69 DCAM for that matter either.

I have just recently purchased some PR69 DCAM's for a registry from ebay and paid around $10 each for them, but i havent received them yet. Other than that, I am clueless, so I hope you are not give me crap cuz i am new!

Cary >>



If you are 'clueless' as you state and new to collecting, I wouldn't recommend starting by competing in registry sets.

cary1952

you wouldnt recommend it cuz i am clueless? LOL . too funny. It doesnt take too much of a clue to Buy a $10 coin and have a 2% on a registry. I didnt say I was going to complete anything, I just want something to look forward to viewing once in a while. sheesh! Last I looked this was still a free country, and registry was free for the doing! I am new to PCGS coins , and new to High level grading!

dthigpen

<< <i>you wouldnt recommend it cuz i am clueless? LOL . too funny. It doesnt take too much of a clue to Buy a $10 coin and have a 2% on a registry. I didnt say I was going to complete anything, I just want something to look forward to viewing once in a while. sheesh! Last I looked this was still a free country, and registry was free for the doing! >>



Nevermind, I'll refrain from giving you any advice in the future. Have fun adding 2% to your registery set!

Russ

Cool. A topic that's never before been discussed.

Russ, NCNE

Bikingnut

Because they are the best of the best of the best. Actually I think you got it right. They are paying for the superior number. Can you honestly say you can tell the difference between a PF69 and PF70? What makes the difference? Maybe the grader just didn't want to give a 70 that day.

I know a lot of you have seen the pictures of the 1919 MS69 Lincoln posted on here. That coin is flawless. Why didn't it get an MS70?

Dennis

kieferscoins

Forget Russ Cary. He is the forum cop.

Cameron Kiefer

RYK

We all know that if the dealer is the one submitting the coin, it is more likely that he/she will get the 70. Especially, if the dealer is one who specializes in high-grade moderns.

grip

Russ

<< <i>Forget Russ Cary. He is the forum cop.

Cameron Kiefer >>



Piss off, Cammie.

Russ, NCNE

Oney

This is an interesting topic. I own 2 Roosevelt dimes graded PR70, 1961 and 1964. I did pay a premium in one case but not one in the other. It is hard to tell the difference when held up side by side to a PR69. If it were easily distinguishable then would we need TPG's since it was obvious and the human aspect of subjectivity is removed? hmm........

Numismanic

<< <i>Why do people pay good money for PR70's? >>



I pay good money for PR69's!

cmanbb

No question, people/collectors are PAYING for the number on the holder.............An MS/PF69 Modern set is just as nice as an MS/PF70 set.
If you placed a sticker over the assigned grades of a dozen MS/PF69 coins and a dozen MS/PF70 coins (hide the grade)......could anyone tell which was which. I think not. Yet some folks will pay MANY TIMES over an MS/PF69 coin to have "the" MS/PF 70 NUMBER.

Keep in mind your coin was an MS/PF 70 before it was slabbed (RAW)
Has anyone been offered "good money" for the same coin when it was RAW...............NO............Hence, someone is paying for the NUMBER

IrishMike

so they can act like Mr. Platinum and a few others in the Registry Forum?

nwcs

Simple, because they want to. More power to them. I hope to make a 70 someday and sell it to them.

cladking

Most people have to look at a lot of proofs before they can see the difference between
a nicer proof and a more mediocre proof. Telling an MS-70 from an MS-69 is orders of mag-
nitude more difficult. For these people it is probably not a good idea to pay big premiums
for higher grade coins unless they want to compete in the registry or something. PR-69's
certainlty are attractive coins and for most moderns are common enough now that the price
is low. Part of collecting what you like is getting it in the grade you want.

If you think you've been slammed around here then you probably weren't. Generally you'll
be pretty sure when it happens and thick skins can be an asset.

Bikingnut

This is an interesting topic. I own 2 Roosevelt dimes graded PR70, 1961 and 1964. I did pay a premium in one case but not one in the other. It is hard to tell the difference when held up side by side to a PR69. If it were easily distinguishable then would we need TPG's since it was obvious and the human aspect of subjectivity is removed?

That's the big illusion or irony of the whole thing. You are relying on someone who has been designated an expert to assign a grade of 69 or 70, when in reality they probably couldn't tell the difference if two coins, one a 69 and the other a 70 were placed side by side with the grades covered up. I think when it gets up to that lofty grade, it's a crap shoot and depends more on who's grading the coin and whether the grader is willing to give up the grade of 70. JMO of course.

Dennis

cladking

Just about any individual can look at any two coins and make a decision about which is nicer.

Professionals simply make the same decision more often than most people. Just because the
difference is slight and can vary from time to time doesn't mean it's not there. The average
PR-70 is one grade higher than the average PR-69 even if there can be overlap in quality.

wondercoin

Telling the difference between 1 point differentials is difficult for most collectors whether one is talking about PR70's or classic coins. And, so it is a personal decision whether one choses to collect PR70's or any "top pop" coins for that matter.

I attended the November, 2002 Santa Clara Heritage auction, along with just about every top upgrader/dealer in the country. In that auction was a 1910(s) Lincoln cent in ICG-MS67RD, which, at the time, no one (no world class upgrader that is) figured for anything other than a cross to PCGS-MS66RD. The coin sold for a couple thousand dollars (basically PCGS-MS66RD money and to a collector I believe). The coin was submitted to PCGS and crossed. The lucky buyer from that auction placed the coin on ebay where it sold for $36,000 (to one of the SAME world class upgraders/dealers who did not grade the coin MS67RD back at the 2002 auction). I am informed that within a week or two the coin then traded hands closer to $50,000 and folks were discussing this particular Lincoln as one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, 1910(s) Lincoln in a holder today! Yes, no world class upgrader chose to bid $3,000 in the 11/02 sale, but then one was comfortable paying $36,000 (and a whole lot more had he been challenged further in that ebay auction) FOR THE VERY SAME COIN!

Bottom line - the reason people pay "good money" for PR70 coins is the EXACT reason they pay "good money" for nearly any other coins in pop top holders in my opinion.

Wondercoin

MoneyLA

We have had this discussion many times in the Registry Forum. Yes, there IS a difference between PR69 and PR70 coins and you can see it on most examples if you put the coins side by side. Usually the difference is the STRIKE as both coins will appear flawless.

When I put together my registry set of proof silver washingtons I had PR70s for 1960 through 1964 but I will admit that some coins were of better quality than others. I probably had handled half of the known PR70s of that series and those that I didnt like I sold. One coin I sent back to PCGS (I bought it slabbed) because I thought it did not rate a PR70 grade (that coin was stolen from the mail, but recovered by the postal inspectors and I don't know what happened to it).

Remember that if you look closely enough, with a high enough power scope, NO coin is perfect.

cheers, alan mendelson

Oney

Well said Wondercoin!

GoYankees

The only way I'll have an MS/PR 70 is if I make one (never did). A 69 grade is good enough for me. I just don't see spending $300+ for a modern "70" when the beauty of a "69" can be had for under $30 in most cases.

grip

I'll go with the Yank,unless you like your name in lights,and have deep pockets to withstand the fall of commens.
Al

cladking

<< <i>I'll go with the Yank,unless you like your name in lights,and have deep pockets to withstand the fall of commens.
Al >>



There are many reasons to collect any coin and this also applies to PR-70 coins from any century.

There are many proofs which don't even exist in PR-70. It will prove difficult to lose money on these.

anoldgoat

All PR69s are not created equal.