Home U.S. Coin Forum

Has anyone contemplated a toner only pop report?

As a collector of toned coins I always wondered about the population of toned coins. PCGS and NGC have pops for grades and NGC even has a seperate pop report for VAMs, but has anyone ever wondered if their toned coin was a top pop? We always hear -- "with that that kinda of color it doesn't matter what the grade is," but to some it might.

I, for one, would like to know whether I have the top pop toned Peace $ of a particular date/mintmark. It would be interesting to actually know the grade and population for a particular toned coin.

Of course PCGS/NGC would never do this, but I'm sure some interprising collector/dealer with a background in internet database technology could make this happen and charge a fee to subscribers to access the info. And of course the database would have to be based solely on self reporting. Perhaps a pic/scan of the coin and slab with cert# would have to be provided in order for the coin to be entered into the pop report. In my opinion, it should be open to PCGS, NGC and ANACS slab coins, in order to be fair and accurate.

But I think it could be interesting from a collecting standpoint as well as a dealer standpoint. It might increase or even decrease the value of some of the toners.

While it might not be difficult to assemble a blast white MS64 set of XXXXX it might be nearly impossible to do so in toned only examples. A pop report illustrating that fact might make the coins in that set even more valuable beyond just merely the technical grade and color.

Thoughts??? By the way -- this is a thought-in-progress, so I could be way off base with this whole idea.

image
TPN

Comments

  • coppercoinscoppercoins Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭
    What about the coins that tone AFTER they are placed into the slab?
    C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
    The Lincoln cent store:
    http://www.lincolncent.com

    My numismatic art work:
    http://www.cdaughtrey.com
    USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
    image
  • ccexccex Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭
    Who decides how to count the following?

    - Which TPG services, whether they have a population report or not?

    - Does an ugly brown-toned coin count? If not, where do you draw the line to discriminate against skin color?

    - Which toned coins are actually AT but slipped into a slab, somehow?

    - Which coins should be deleted from the database because they crossed from one service's slab to another's?


    Still, this could be a great, but impossible idea, for studying those scarce naturally toned Peace Dollars. Don't let my skepticism hamper your efforts in your labor of love.



    "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor


  • << <i>Which TPG services, whether they have a population report or not? >>


    I offered the top 3 -- PCGS/NGC/ANACS as a start.


    << <i>Does an ugly brown-toned coin count? If not, where do you draw the line to discriminate against skin color? >>


    It could, but that's a detail that would have to be worked out. If a scan or pic is being submitted to get the coin on the database, the report could link the viewer to a page with the pics. You could see if your MS65 Quarter was more colorful than the 20 others entered into the database.


    << <i>Which toned coins are actually AT but slipped into a slab, somehow? >>


    If it's slab by the top 3 TPGs, the AT vs. NT debate would have to be a non-issue.


    << <i>Which coins should be deleted from the database because they crossed from one service's slab to another's? >>


    The TPG doesn't matter -- the grade does. If the coin crosses the grade pop doesn't change. If it upgrades, the owner reports it to the owner of the database and the pop is changed accordingly.

    image
    TPN
  • FullStepJeffsFullStepJeffs Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    Okay, caveat that this should probably be in another thread and I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but, what about a pop report for errors? I think that would be much more do-able, so to speak than toned coins... and the Gods could even have Registry Type Sets for errors...

    I'll shut-up now...

    I think your idea has merit... the real question is after this long with TPG, you may never get a "complete" population of toned coins, but more power to ya if you try.
    U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired

    In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
  • coppercoinscoppercoins Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    The TPG doesn't matter -- the grade does. If the coin crosses the grade pop doesn't change. If it upgrades, the owner reports it to the owner of the database and the pop is changed accordingly. >>



    I would have to say Good Luck in getting full compliance with this.

    Seems like a do-able project, but difficult to maintain accurately at best.
    C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
    The Lincoln cent store:
    http://www.lincolncent.com

    My numismatic art work:
    http://www.cdaughtrey.com
    USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
    image
  • coppercoinscoppercoins Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Okay, caveat that this should probably be in another thread and I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but, what about a pop report for errors? I think that would be much more do-able, so to speak than toned coins... and the Gods could even have Registry Type Sets for errors...

    I'll shut-up now...

    I think your idea has merit... the real question is after this long with TPG, you may never get a "complete" population of toned coins, but more power to ya if you try. >>



    Pops for errors I'm not sure about...but ANACS and PCGS both have pops for die varieties.

    No more hijacking, I promise image
    C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
    The Lincoln cent store:
    http://www.lincolncent.com

    My numismatic art work:
    http://www.cdaughtrey.com
    USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
    image


  • << <i>No more hijacking, I promise >>


    That's fine. Sometimes one idea seeds another.

    It only makes sense that collectors and dealers like to know the population of certain grades. I assume that all the members here would agree that NCG and PCGS's pop reports have numerous errors, but still, they are quite helpful. PCGS and NGC's pop reports require compliance from crackout submitters to keep the pop accurate. This would be no different and hardly a reason to state it's not possible.

    Nothing is perfect, but I think specialized pop reports might be a useful resource -- even error pop reports. Though since there are numerous types of errors, that one might be a little more difficult.

    image
    TPN
  • If you want to make a guess, you might follow the David Lawrence star system by grade for a year of sales and then extrapolate to pop's as a whole. You have picked the one population--NT coins--that will go DOWN every year due to dipping for that one little 1 point upgrade. One day coins with original surfaces might even carry the same 10X premium that antiques of all sorts do now after the refinishing craze of the 1940's-1960's. I'm betting on it myself anyway. Tastes will change, that is the one constant of collecting.
    morgannut2
  • TTT for the morning crowd.

    image
    TPN
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    I don't think it's practical, because it's too subjective as to *how much* toning is required, and what *type* of toning (for color/eye appeal purposes) would qualify.

    Plus, if you think there's a bubble in toners now, just start tracking them separately and give them a registry of their own and you ain't seen nothing yet...
  • NGC already tried this, in a sense. They had, for a few years, the "T" designation for "toned" (and "W" for "white"). They realized that this was not practical for the long-term, so they quit using the designations - 3 or 4 years ago?

    Hoot
    From this hour I ordain myself loos'd of limits and imaginary lines. - Whitman

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file