Can the Jefferson guys look at this auction listing description/picture and give an opinion?

keets

Here's the listing which is described as a 1940-D Variety 1 Reverse. That says Reverse of 1938 in my mind which would be an ultra rarity and possibly a unique specimen. Judging from the picture provided the coin is a typical Reverse of 1940 but I thought I'd get some feedback on what others think and if anyone has ever heard of or seen a post-1939 Jefferson with the Reverse of 1938, aside from the 1940 Proofs, of course.

Thanks.

Al H.

clackamas

Hmmm. I can't see the steps well enough to make out if it is a rev of 38. It would be uncommon.

keets

i've asked for a better picture and a worded description of what the seller considers "Variety 1 Reverse" as listed in the description. what did you think of the screwy starting price??

al h.

clackamas

The starting price on all his coins is generous.

100proof1957

Drug Addict !

solid

The photo isn't clear enough for me to tell, but I'm with you - the 39's
came with both reverses, but in 1940, only the proofs come with the
Type 1 reverse - perhaps only from a single die.

As you know, the 40-D usually comes pretty nice, so the odd starting
price seems really, really high - raw or slabbed.

Ken

Ronyahski

Never heard of such thing. Jan, the seller, is a board member.

FullStepJeffs

Al,

Here's my nickels worth on that auction...

Yes, I saw the auction listing the other day... scratched my head over the stupidity of it. Where can I begin with this one...

Bernard Nagengast states the following about 1940-D's;

"Availability of Uncirculated Coins: singles usually available, rolls are very scarce
Appearance of Uncirculated Coins: brilliant satin to frosty surfaces
Existence of Prooflike coins: very rarely encountered with semi-prooflike surfaces
Five Step Frequency of Appearance: 1:3 Six Step Coin Rariry: scarce

Always a very nice sharply struck coin, but sometimes spotted. If you are lucky enough to find a roll of this issue, virtually all will have at least five steps. Six step coins are rated scarce only because rolls of 40D's are generally unavailable."

And Nagengast doesn't list a Variety 1 or 2...

Another thing I can give you is some auction prices realized for MS67FS coins graded by PCGS...

DATE
1940D

Grade
MS67FS

Company
PCGS

Prices Realized
184, 240, 250, 346.15, 414, 230(x2), 260, 129.50, 249.95, 200, 285

TotalCoins/Amt
12/3018.60

Average
251.55

The listing above comes from my price guide I've made using Teletrade, Heritage, Ebay & other auction sites... the prices are only for auctions within 2004... currently, my price guide has 10500 prices listed with a total of $1.3 million...

The coin listed is a raw coin with a starting price of $342.45 and a Buy It Now price of $513.67 because the Nuimismedia Price Guide says it's worth $570.75? What crack are they smoking?

Second, unknown to me that there was a 1940-D "Type 1/Variety 1" nickel... that would mean there had to be a Type 2. The only 1940 nickels I'm aware of with two types are the proof nickels, of which the Reverse of 38 is the rarer of the two (FS24). Wexler doesn't list his variety... Cherrypickers doesn't list his variety...
Heck, even ANACS doesn't differentiate his variety.

I'm thinking I should start making up rare coin varieties and sell them on Ebay. I mean this guy can do it looking for people who might think the coin is rare, but I'll open up the box of 40-D's I have and sell you two for the price he lists, and I still think that's crazy.

If you're really thinking of even contemplating this deal, I would get some type of guarantee that it is actually a "Type 1" reverse and then send it in to get it authenticated, but I'll put $50 on the fact that the individual who listed the coin either 1) made a critical mistake in the listing, 2) is actually trying to misrepresent the coin, or 3) has absolutely no idea about Jefferson Nickels and is trying to make a $325 profit on a $20 coin.

Somebody else will probably say I'm totally wrong, but hopefully, your money will still be in your pocket.

End of Rant...

I hope this helps!

Steve

100proof1957

I'm thinking Keets knows better and just wanted an opinion.

spy88

The seller states it's graded MS67FS but doesn't tell who graded it. Nor does it look like any TPG slab I'm familiar with. As with others, I can't tell from the pics the steps or the grade but I think I can see a hit to the first and second steps between P 2 and 3.

I'd have a very hard time putting any bid over $40 on it unless it was slabbed by either PCGS or NGC. And I personally think the seller just made a mistake with the attribute and was referring to a 1939.

FullStepJeffs

it's the sellers grade... and a raw coin

Hoot

Hi Al - The reverse is the typical reverse of 1940. Look at the strength of the lettering, the definition of Monticello's doors, windows, and portal of the dome. Also, the steps look straight, although the pic is bad enough to make them indistinct. No T1 and T2 has been reported for the 40-D.

Hoot

RGL

Strikes me as a "fantasy" (does not exist) coin ...

keets

hey Guys

thanks for the replies. i've sent the seller an e-mail asking for a better picture and for his worded explanation of what he has described as Variety 1 Reverse. though it's improbable that any coins exist which were struck with Reverse of 1938 dies----Variety 1-----it is possible and that's why i sought opinions, wanting to know if any members had ever seen/heard of a 1940-P, D or S with the reverse---Breen states simply May exist with Rev. of 1938.

what i find interesting is that Nagengast's estimated mintages of the 1939 coins with the Reverse of 1938 increase from east to west:
Philadelphia---10%.
Denver---25%.
San Francisco---50%.

evidentally it took time to get the new dies to the branches and they were in a hurry to strike the new issue so they used the old dies. logically it would seem that Reverse of 1938 circulation strike would come from the branch mints since we know that they were using the dies later in the year. further, the 1940 Proof Reverse of 1938 coins weren't documented until well over 30 years later in the early 1970's.

as a common and well struck date the 1940-D would be the one to have this Reverse still in existence. i look at them from time to time but have never really expected to find one and i don't really expect this coin to pan out. just the same, remember Baley's new Overton Bust Half-Dollar?? who would have thought a new marriage would turn up after all the time spent looking at those coins?? i think it's the stuff that gives the hobby the kick in the ass that keeps us comin' back!!!

al h.

solid

Well, here's to hoping for a kick in the ass!

stephunter

I asked the seller about the coin a couple of days ago. He replied that the coin has the type I mint mark, in that it is on the reverse of the coin as oposed to the type II where the mint mark is on the obverse. Starting price seems at least 10 times to high.

RGT

Yes, the seller is a board member here, but he only comes here to sell his NumisExpert software.

The price he quoted is the NumisExpert price, not NumisMedia. He uses his own price guide to state his coins value.

The coin is raw and in an Intercept Shield holder. It does look like a fairly high grade though.

I beta tested the early version of his NumisExpert software and was very suspicious of it from the start. It can be very invasive and publish your inventory over the internet. Who knows where it's going. That's not for me. I once suggested on RCC that someone wasted their $20 buying the software during thier introductory offer. Jan got very irate and tried to humiliate me in a follow up post along with threatening to sue me. I recounted the facts of my beta test experience and he never responded.

Personally, I would avoid his software and his coins. I expect to be served any day now.

RGL

Hilarious ... the seller is designating the 1968 and later coins as Type 2 since the mint mark was moved to the obverse ... that makes every earlier Jeff a Type 1, although I don't what he designates the war five-cents ...

jtwax

<< <i>Here's the listing which is described as a 1940-D Variety 1 Reverse. That says Reverse of 1938 in my mind which would be an ultra rarity and possibly a unique specimen. Judging from the picture provided the coin is a typical Reverse of 1940 but I thought I'd get some feedback on what others think and if anyone has ever heard of or seen a post-1939 Jefferson with the Reverse of 1938, aside from the 1940 Proofs, of course.

Thanks.

Al H. >>



Al,

The reason that the coin is listed with a VAR 1 designation is because it is an automated listing via Jan (the sellers) software, Numisexpert. VAR 1 is a generic term and could mean any known variety that a 1940-D nickel could carry (ie: RPM, DD, etc). It has nothing to do with a 'reverse of' designation. If you check out the Numisexpert software sometime you will see that there are many, many coins listed with this VAR 1 designation... Confusing isn't it. Hope that helps.

Have a nice weekend.

Ronyahski

<< <i>Hi Al - The reverse is the typical reverse of 1940. Look at the strength of the lettering, the definition of Monticello's doors, windows, and portal of the dome. Also, the steps look straight, although the pic is bad enough to make them indistinct. No T1 and T2 has been reported for the 40-D.

Hoot >>



You can't tell a T1 vs. T2 other than the steps, the dies were otherwise untouched.

FullStepJeffs

Okay all... here it is again... and still no bids... I wonder why...

Piece of Work

MJPHELAN

I agree it is a reverse of 40. The top step is too strong for it to be a reverse of 38. The steps look straight, even in that photo.