A nice Washington medal plus my first Gold So-Called Dollar and it's story---how I found it, what I
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
This first one is a nice Washington Medal issued in 1881 by the State of Pennsylvania to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of the British defeat at Yorktown, which effectively ended the fighting in America's War for Independence. It's struck in White Metal and is 32mm in size which makes it slightly smaller than a Silver Dollar. The design and dies are the work of George T. Morgan but I'm not certain who actually struck the medals, though it seems plausible that it was the U.S. Mint. My example is listed as R-5 with Baker 454B as it's assigned number, would probably grade PR65DCAM and has the appearance of a modern black/white cameo, despite my poor photographic ability. It's really not hairlined or cloudy and what appears to be rub is just discoloration. It never ceases to amaze me how items like this have survived the decades, are essentially ignored by collectors and yet possess stunning beauty. Just my luck, I guess!!!
This next one is a beautiful Gold So-Called Dollar that, ironically, I found at the same show in Cleveland back in late August and it has a nice little story to go along with it.
I had been looking through the dealer's cases at the show when this medal and another aluminum example, both raw, showed up just sitting in a guys case in 2X2 flips. I struck up a conversation with him, David Beech of D&M Coin, and it turns out he didn't really know for certain what the item was. He told me that he'd had it for a little over two years and that it had been part of an advanced collector's Gold Commemorative collection. Evidentally the guy had it in a folder with 11 other coins and he'd supposedly had it since 1958, buying it from the original owner. Me and David talked for awhile and I helped him identify it in the Hibler-Kappen reference as HK-371. We reached agreement on a price with the contingency that it be authenticated by either ANACS or NGC. He chose NGC.
After about two months had elapsed I assumed it was a counterfiet because I never heard back from him. I was originally skeptical because of the appearance of the fields and the fact that it had "Coin" orientation instead of the usual Medallic obv/rev. Cast counterfiet was what I thought. Well, he called me after the P.A.N. Show and we arranged to meet last weekend in Cleveland. He told me that a guy i later found out was njcoincrank had noticed it and expressed an interest. Not surprisingly, njcoincrank had an original envelope from 1909 when the medal was sold by Thomas Elder and he brought it over to David's table!!!!!! He also, excused himself and didn't make any effort to buy the medal once he knew there was another collector waiting for it. Very professional of both him and the seller, I thought.
After I knew the medal had been authenticated I asked in a thread for help in getting some additional information on it to try to reach a sane price, or at least not to lose my shirt!! Cameron and MrEureka both pointed me to David Sklow at the ANA Museum who in turn directed me to the ANS. The difficulty in finding anything out is the result of the Medallic Art Company who struck the medals; they purged their records prior to 1986. Hard to believe, 'eh, since they've struck so many important Numismatic items. As a last resort I contacted Brian Silliman at NGC/NCS but he didn't have much he could offer. In the end the most concise information comes from the Hibbler-Kappen reference.
The medal was struck in 1909 to commemorate the 300th Anniversary of Hendrick Hudson's discovery of the Hudson River. My example is struck in Gold and is the size of a U.S. Gold Dollar with a total issue of less than 50. The color is similar to that of a Modern Gold Bullion issue with no spots or imperfections noticeable. While the strike appears weak on the obverse, the detail is all clear and seems to flow into what can best be described as Matte Fields. The reverse strike is crisper, showing all the detail in the ship sails, the sun and even the two small figures aboard the Half Moon which sailed to the historic discovery. If you look closely you can even see the tiny Moon and Star at the beginning and end of the lettering. The detail and the appearance of the fields is exquisite.
I tried to match the color and the detail in one picture but couldn't do it. The first picture gives an idea of the color, the second/third should show the detail nicely and the last is the "in holder" shot. I should also give a thanks to MadMarty. We had struck a deal on some Jeffersons I needed for my set and he graciously let me off the hook when this got in the way! Thanks Marty, I owe ya!!! Thanks also to everyone else mentioned. All were very helpful and acted professionally while trying to share what they knew and help a collector who needed it. That's really what I think raises this Forum and this Site high.
Enjoy.
Al H.
This next one is a beautiful Gold So-Called Dollar that, ironically, I found at the same show in Cleveland back in late August and it has a nice little story to go along with it.
I had been looking through the dealer's cases at the show when this medal and another aluminum example, both raw, showed up just sitting in a guys case in 2X2 flips. I struck up a conversation with him, David Beech of D&M Coin, and it turns out he didn't really know for certain what the item was. He told me that he'd had it for a little over two years and that it had been part of an advanced collector's Gold Commemorative collection. Evidentally the guy had it in a folder with 11 other coins and he'd supposedly had it since 1958, buying it from the original owner. Me and David talked for awhile and I helped him identify it in the Hibler-Kappen reference as HK-371. We reached agreement on a price with the contingency that it be authenticated by either ANACS or NGC. He chose NGC.
After about two months had elapsed I assumed it was a counterfiet because I never heard back from him. I was originally skeptical because of the appearance of the fields and the fact that it had "Coin" orientation instead of the usual Medallic obv/rev. Cast counterfiet was what I thought. Well, he called me after the P.A.N. Show and we arranged to meet last weekend in Cleveland. He told me that a guy i later found out was njcoincrank had noticed it and expressed an interest. Not surprisingly, njcoincrank had an original envelope from 1909 when the medal was sold by Thomas Elder and he brought it over to David's table!!!!!! He also, excused himself and didn't make any effort to buy the medal once he knew there was another collector waiting for it. Very professional of both him and the seller, I thought.
After I knew the medal had been authenticated I asked in a thread for help in getting some additional information on it to try to reach a sane price, or at least not to lose my shirt!! Cameron and MrEureka both pointed me to David Sklow at the ANA Museum who in turn directed me to the ANS. The difficulty in finding anything out is the result of the Medallic Art Company who struck the medals; they purged their records prior to 1986. Hard to believe, 'eh, since they've struck so many important Numismatic items. As a last resort I contacted Brian Silliman at NGC/NCS but he didn't have much he could offer. In the end the most concise information comes from the Hibbler-Kappen reference.
The medal was struck in 1909 to commemorate the 300th Anniversary of Hendrick Hudson's discovery of the Hudson River. My example is struck in Gold and is the size of a U.S. Gold Dollar with a total issue of less than 50. The color is similar to that of a Modern Gold Bullion issue with no spots or imperfections noticeable. While the strike appears weak on the obverse, the detail is all clear and seems to flow into what can best be described as Matte Fields. The reverse strike is crisper, showing all the detail in the ship sails, the sun and even the two small figures aboard the Half Moon which sailed to the historic discovery. If you look closely you can even see the tiny Moon and Star at the beginning and end of the lettering. The detail and the appearance of the fields is exquisite.
I tried to match the color and the detail in one picture but couldn't do it. The first picture gives an idea of the color, the second/third should show the detail nicely and the last is the "in holder" shot. I should also give a thanks to MadMarty. We had struck a deal on some Jeffersons I needed for my set and he graciously let me off the hook when this got in the way! Thanks Marty, I owe ya!!! Thanks also to everyone else mentioned. All were very helpful and acted professionally while trying to share what they knew and help a collector who needed it. That's really what I think raises this Forum and this Site high.
Enjoy.Al H.
0
Comments
Great story too.
******
the Washington was struck in Silver, Bronze and White Metal. the latter two are listed as R-5, estimated 31-75 known and considered rare. the silver medal is listed as an R-8, estimated 1-3 known and considered unique or nearly unique. when i first found it i was confused and thought it was the R-8!!!! i remember that MdWoods was with me and i asked him "How many is R-8?" he got a little excited and said something like "I don't know, but it isn't many!!"
al h.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Cameron Kiefer
You really make it tough on yourself collecting such things, though. It's not like you
can just go to "the book" and find everything you want to know in one place - it
takes real work, ingenuity and luck!
hey Ken
you raise a good point, one that finds it's way to the top of my life in more areas than just collecting. my dad always stressed education, probably because he went to Trade School and wanted better for me and my sisters. heck, i can still hear the echo of him telling me "Nobody can ever take away anything you know" and it's one of the rare adolescent things that got trapped in my knoggin!!!! later in life i've learned to be prepared. what i've managed to be lucky with in our hobby is to stay educated so that i'm always prepared to know something when it appears. i miss way more than i see, but the payoff is nice stuff like these two.
with that Hudson, i'd won an aluminum example on eBay and had already done some of the grunt work researching and reading. then i get to the show and the gold one stuck out, quite literally, like a sore thumb. David Beech, the seller, told me that at one time shortly after he acquired it----and i use that word because when he bought the collection it was in, he had no idea what it was and if it was even gold----that bugger sat in the showcase priced at $45 with no lookers let alone takers!!! some exonumia like these two go unnoticed for a long time.
al h.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)