The Indiana players are at fault!! Mostly Artest & Jackson.
mintluster
Posts: 926
in Sports Talk
This is why as a player you never go into the stands after a fan. First of all Artest was hit with a plastic cup on his chest.
"I was fighting for my life out there," Yea right....this was not Iraq. The players were fighting for their "lives" (propoganda to get you to blame the fans only) ONCE THEY JUMPED INTO the stands and started punching people WHO DIDN'T EVEN THROW THE CUP!!!
Once that happened the other fans started "protecting" other fans the same way the players say they were protecting players.
But again, take it from the beginning (of the fan part of the brawl). Artest hit by cup, Artest storms into the bleachers and starts to HIT a guy with glasses WHO DID NOT THROW THE CUP AT HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! If you watch the tape, you will see that the kid had his drink STILL IN HIS HAND when Artest started to grab and punch him. The guy who threw the cup was next to that kid with a hat on and he grabs Artest from behind to protect the innocent guy. Then Jackson comes flying out of nowhere and starts to punch the innocent fan also. This is when other fans started to jump all over the players and protect the INNOCENT fan who never threw the cup. They saw that this kid was becoming a scape goat and punching bag for 2 pissed off players.
THAT IS WHY A PLAYER SHOULD NEVER RUN INTO THE STANDS AND ATTACK FANS. You have a right to "defend" yourself when you know who hit you. A player has no right to get hit by a plasitc cup and then storm into the stands and just start kiccking the crap out of any fan they "think" may have thrown something. No way. If that was your son, brother, father, or friend, who was attacked by Artest for no reason, you would agree.
The players are supposed to be trained professionals. But as we saw with this incident, they are trained thugs. I am glad the fans started protecting the original innocent guy and started fighting back with players.
The media, especially ESPN has placed most all of the blame on "the fans". Well that old woman on the bottom of the pile of people was "a fan." Was it her fault? No. You can't blame "the fans" when it was really 2 or 3 fans that the tape reveals was attacking players, AFTER players started attacking a man who was NOT the cup thrower. It was actually 2 players (Artest and then Jackson) trying to cripple that guy with the glasses who, again, was NOT the cup thrower in the first place! He may have a lawsuit getting ready to get filed (as he should), and you know what, he will win. The tape doesn't lie.
Those 2 fat guys with the Pistons jerseys on who went onto the court will have a lawsuit also. The tape clearly shows the one guy run over and start taunting Artest verbally, and Arest punches the fan directly in the face (that is self defense? Its hard to use that defense when you are the only one on tape throwing a punch). Then while he is trying to get up Jermaine Oneal runs over and punches him again, he falls directly to the floor and puts his hands up in the air wanting mercy. Fact is, this guy NEVER threw a punch or anything, at anyone. But he got punched by 2 different players. I can hear the excuses now "he was on the court where he is not allowed to be and I fealt threatened so I defended myself by punching him." Give me a break. When a fan makes it the court, it is security's job to escort them out of the arena and apply fines. It is NOT a player's job, or right, to take the matter into their hands and start beating up fans.
Once chairs and stuff started getting thrown then the players have a case about "protecting" themselves. But NONE of that would have happened from the fans had Artest not ran into the stands and started to beat up an innocent man. It all goes back to Artest and his actions.
I blame "the players" - about 3 or 4 of them....mostly Artest and Jackson. Watch the tapes of the incident (being player every minute on every sports station) and you will see that it was all a chain reaction beginning with the plastic cup, then Artest attacking an innocent fan.
If Artest took the cup on the chest like a professional, stadium security would have escorted the APPROPRIATE cup throwing fan from the stadium and issue resolved. It's just that simple. Heck maybe even Artest would have been able to file a lawsuit. Not now.
"I was fighting for my life out there," Yea right....this was not Iraq. The players were fighting for their "lives" (propoganda to get you to blame the fans only) ONCE THEY JUMPED INTO the stands and started punching people WHO DIDN'T EVEN THROW THE CUP!!!
Once that happened the other fans started "protecting" other fans the same way the players say they were protecting players.
But again, take it from the beginning (of the fan part of the brawl). Artest hit by cup, Artest storms into the bleachers and starts to HIT a guy with glasses WHO DID NOT THROW THE CUP AT HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! If you watch the tape, you will see that the kid had his drink STILL IN HIS HAND when Artest started to grab and punch him. The guy who threw the cup was next to that kid with a hat on and he grabs Artest from behind to protect the innocent guy. Then Jackson comes flying out of nowhere and starts to punch the innocent fan also. This is when other fans started to jump all over the players and protect the INNOCENT fan who never threw the cup. They saw that this kid was becoming a scape goat and punching bag for 2 pissed off players.
THAT IS WHY A PLAYER SHOULD NEVER RUN INTO THE STANDS AND ATTACK FANS. You have a right to "defend" yourself when you know who hit you. A player has no right to get hit by a plasitc cup and then storm into the stands and just start kiccking the crap out of any fan they "think" may have thrown something. No way. If that was your son, brother, father, or friend, who was attacked by Artest for no reason, you would agree.
The players are supposed to be trained professionals. But as we saw with this incident, they are trained thugs. I am glad the fans started protecting the original innocent guy and started fighting back with players.
The media, especially ESPN has placed most all of the blame on "the fans". Well that old woman on the bottom of the pile of people was "a fan." Was it her fault? No. You can't blame "the fans" when it was really 2 or 3 fans that the tape reveals was attacking players, AFTER players started attacking a man who was NOT the cup thrower. It was actually 2 players (Artest and then Jackson) trying to cripple that guy with the glasses who, again, was NOT the cup thrower in the first place! He may have a lawsuit getting ready to get filed (as he should), and you know what, he will win. The tape doesn't lie.
Those 2 fat guys with the Pistons jerseys on who went onto the court will have a lawsuit also. The tape clearly shows the one guy run over and start taunting Artest verbally, and Arest punches the fan directly in the face (that is self defense? Its hard to use that defense when you are the only one on tape throwing a punch). Then while he is trying to get up Jermaine Oneal runs over and punches him again, he falls directly to the floor and puts his hands up in the air wanting mercy. Fact is, this guy NEVER threw a punch or anything, at anyone. But he got punched by 2 different players. I can hear the excuses now "he was on the court where he is not allowed to be and I fealt threatened so I defended myself by punching him." Give me a break. When a fan makes it the court, it is security's job to escort them out of the arena and apply fines. It is NOT a player's job, or right, to take the matter into their hands and start beating up fans.
Once chairs and stuff started getting thrown then the players have a case about "protecting" themselves. But NONE of that would have happened from the fans had Artest not ran into the stands and started to beat up an innocent man. It all goes back to Artest and his actions.
I blame "the players" - about 3 or 4 of them....mostly Artest and Jackson. Watch the tapes of the incident (being player every minute on every sports station) and you will see that it was all a chain reaction beginning with the plastic cup, then Artest attacking an innocent fan.
If Artest took the cup on the chest like a professional, stadium security would have escorted the APPROPRIATE cup throwing fan from the stadium and issue resolved. It's just that simple. Heck maybe even Artest would have been able to file a lawsuit. Not now.
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Scott
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How about the kid with the glasses fighting for "his life" when Artest jumped him, and then Jackson jumped him, and HE NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG!!
Artest got hit by a plastic cup. Big deal. That gave him NO RIGHT to run into the stands and start kicking the crap out of someone who he THOUGHT threw the cup, but obviously was did not, as the tapes prove. Artest should go to jail for that offense alone. He attacked an innocent fan. How can you defend that behavior?
As for the fan with the hat that was hitting Artest from behind. He should get banned from the arena and sent to jail. I agree with that. He was the one who some say threw the cup in the first place and started it all.
But don't for one minute think that professional athletes can take the law and stadium security in there own hands and start beating people up because they were hit with a piece of popcorn, or a plastic cup, or yelled at with "offensive language." That is insane. In New York fans have thrown batteries at players before. That hurts a hell of a lot more than a plastic cup with liquid in it.
When Arnold Swarzenegger got hit with an egg by someone in the audience during his campaign tour, did he run into the audience and beat the crap out of anyone he could get a hold of? No.
He was a professional about it. He took it like a man and let security handle the matter.
Artest attacked the WRONG fan!!!! After that war broke out and fans started hitting the players, who were busy attacking a young man with glasses that DID NOT THROW THE DAMN CUP IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!
Can we agree on that? The tape shows this!! The commentator (whats his face, Gray) even showed this on the tape by slowing it down and circling who the cup thrower was. It was NOT the kid that Artest and Jackson started grabbing and hitting.
You're words, not mine. The fan (white cap) never should have thrown the cup. That's my point. Nuff Said!!!
Scott
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Enough said!!! He will have a lawsuit, and he will win!!
Had Artest stayed cool and let security review the tape, they would have seen who threw the cup and that individual would have been excorted out of the arena by police and arrested, maybe even banned from the arena.
Instead, Artest attacked an innocent fan.
You might think differently if that fan was YOU.
It wouldn't have been me, because I probably would have slapped that jacka$$ in the hat myself for being so stupid.
Scott
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Again, I agree that the white hat guy should be arrested. But they can't do that without arresting Artest and Jackson. They attacked an innocent fan and there is no way around that fact.
It seems like a lot of people are forgetting that. If fan in row 3 hits you with a plastic cup, you can't just grab a fan in row 1 and start hitting him. That is not how it works. That is why there is stadium security.
<< <i>Give me a break. That fat kid who got floored twice on the court by 2 different players was no threat - he NEVER attacked ANYONE and the players were twice his damn size. How can you be so blind watching the same tape we all saw. >>
The tape I saw was the fat kid walking up doing a little hop like he was ready to start throwing down. I don't condone everything the Indiana players, but whipping his a$$ was great. He didn't come down to floor to meet an NBA star he came onto the floor to get involved so he got what he deserved.
Imagine it in court, "Mr. Artest, did the gentleman with the Pistons jersey hit you in any way?" "No your honor."
"Then why did you punch him?" "He looked like he might hit me your honor, and he shouldn't be on the court anyway."
"..and O'neal" "Did he hit you?" "No your honor" "Then why did you run over and punch him while he was on his knees on the ground?" "Well, your honor, I thought he might get up and hit me, plus he shouldn't be on the court anyway."
Artest could claim self defense based off the guy in the white hat who was punching him from behind while holding him. But all the other fans involved will say that they were "protecting and defending" the innocent kid in glasses who Artest and Jackson attacked wrongly in the first place.
A plastic cup for Pete's sake. Artest should have stood on the table, pointed at the thrower, and directed security to take the gentleman out to be arrested, as he deserved to be prosecuted to the fullest. Artest did the complete opposite of what he should have done, and personally induced a riot! Artest was not in any danger when the cup was thrown. He was not fighting for his life as the result of the plastic cup landing on his belly. He may have been fighting for his life after putting many innocent bystanders in danger. Mintluster put it beautifully, and the example of my son also puts it into light.
I'm sick of people sticking up for scum bag athletes just because they are on T.V. Fact is, Ron Artest is fortunate to be blessed with the ability to play b-ball, and if it weren't for that he would probably be sleeping in some box on lower Whacker Drive.
I was in a bar once, and a gentleman made a smart ass comment to another guy about his clothes, and threw an empty plastic cup at the guys forehead to goof around, and the guy with the clothes stuck a knife into the jeering man's neck. He sure showed him.
Suspend Artest for life.
Ban alcohol sales in Detroit's arena for the rest of the season.
Prosecute and ban for life from any pro stadium any fan that left their seat and went onto the floor. Ditto for any one shown throwing things before the Pacers left the floor.
If Artest had come up into the stands I would not have settled for just severely injuring him. Take these guys out of the violent surroundings they grew up in and putting them into the NBA does not educate them in the ways of the civilized world. Send a sign, and send the losers back where they came. And in doing so teach those that follow that this is not to be tolerated.
Koby, Iverson, Sprewell, the list just goes on and on. Draw the line here and now.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i> If Artest had come up into the stands I would not have settled for just severely injuring him. >>
I agree.. I couldn't believe the fat kid in a pistons jersey that got chin-checked (i think by Oneal?).. the fat kid walked up to Oneal with his hands at his side, and as RANDYMOSS84 said, "thought he was a gangtsa".. that fat dude should've known that JO would be swinging, and fat kid should have thrown the 1st blow! Instead, he got caught with his hands down and took a shot on the chin.. then landed on his back.. lol..
as for people hitting others in the back of the head, hell, it was a riot.. if im in that same situation, i'm swingin on everything within punching distance, with the sole intention of knocking someone unconscious..
personally, i would've loved to see one of the fans turn bad-ass and bloody the hell out of a player or two..
They are definately very "stiff."
More reason that nothing even close to this will occur.
Too much money involved here (players, stadium, NBA, beer revenues, etc.)
The NBA will hand out a few 5-10 game suspensions and that's it.
They will try and wipe this under the carpet as quickly as possible and act as if it never happened.
This sort of reminds me of the NHL where their whole history and culture is on violence and fighting, and every few years a hockey player does something truly criminal and insane while they are attempting to hurt another player, and the NHL always acts suprised and starts saying things like, "this will not be tolerated."
What a joke. The culture of the NBA today is young tattooed thugs who play basketball but think they are gangster rappers who show their true colors when these situations erupt.
Does anyone think that Michael Jordan would have ever ran into the stands and attacked a fan? He had class...and common sense.
All over a silly plastic cup.
"I was fighting for my life out there." - What a joke. A big fat laughing joke.
Soldiers in Iraq can say that, not an NBA star who gets hit in the chest with a plastic cup.
<< <i>Imagine it in court, "Mr. Artest, did the gentleman with the Pistons jersey hit you in any way?" "No your honor." "Then why did you punch him?" "He looked like he might hit me your honor, and he shouldn't be on the court anyway." >>
Like it or not, in my opinion, "He looked like he might hit me" is actually a good reason to hit somebody first.. I just wish it would've been a fan getting the best shots in..
I was raised to NOT LET somebody hit me..
Palace has security and they would have taken care of the fan who threw it. And once you shouldn't go into the stands
and you do, you can use self defense and any such lame excuse as a defense.
Artest will be paying that innocent fan big time.
>None of this would've started if Ben Wallace wouldve just shot his damn FT's
Please shut up.
-KHayse
<< <i>personally, i would've loved to see one of the fans turn bad-ass and bloody the hell out of a player or two.. >>
From what I've heard on the radio, one guy in the stands did pummel one of the players pretty good. All the clips I've seen have been edited not showing the whole thing, just the major punches. I agree Artest should have got beat down for going in the stands, and the fans got what they deserved for coming on the court. I can't see the suspension being for the whole season. Unfortunately this isn't the first case of a player attacking someone in stands (both NBA and MLB), I don't remember the punishments being that severe. F.Cordero did get suspended for the season for the Oakland chair throwing incident, but there wasn't much season left.
Terrell Owens having a naked woman jump into
his arms with kids watching.
Some basketball players beating the hell out of
fans with kids watching and crying.
Jesse Jackson counseling Bill Clinton when having
an affair on the side.
Jim McGreevey cheating on his wife with another man.
Who needs rules in society ? Just let people do whatever they want.
The government shouldn't impose their values on those of us who
like to cheat on our spouses, beat up people, and the such.
Shame on you for thinking that America should have morals.
PS. That low-life scumbag named Artest and his buddy should never see a basketball court in America again.
I think these NBA players and key fans involved should be made a harsh example of. The guy that threw the cup at Artest should be charged with starting a riot and Artest, his other headband buddy (Alexander?) should be banned indefinitely --- at least the rest of the year. Banishing someone isn't always a bad thing. Artest has demonstrated he's got pysch problems and his behavior was horrible. I think the NBA should also penalize the Pistons by creating a buffer zone around the entire court of about 5 rows as a penalty/reminder. They should also be banished for the year in selling any alcohol.
Time for the NBA to lay down the wrath, even if it costs them money.
Erik
Nice. Your family reunions must be a hoot. I was raised not to start a fight but to finish them.
>I think the NBA should also penalize the Pistons by creating a buffer zone around the entire court of about 5 rows as a penalty/reminder.
What the heck did the Pistons do that they should be penalized?
-KHayse
The incident between Artest and Wallace insighted it, but that shouldn't be held accountable for it. I think Wallace should be suspended for a few games for what he did to Artest, and how he acted, and at the point of the incident, Artest should have been removed from the game, with no suspension.
At that point, anyone who entered the stands and went after fans should be banned for good, and criminal charges filed against, especially along with all the fans that were involved.
<< <i>
Nice. Your family reunions must be a hoot. I was raised not to start a fight but to finish them.
>>
not quite sure what you mean by that.. i hope you'll explain.. but if you plan to "not start a fight" by letting somebody hit YOU first, then you might not even have a chance to finish the fight, due to unconciousness.. I usually plan to "finish" a fight by ELIMINATING all chances of me being on the losing end..
Don't try to be a bad ass, because there is always one badder.. and if you let that "badder" person hit you first, your going to be KO'd..
if somebody even flinches towards me like they're going to hit, my reflexes automatically cause my fist to shoot in that persons direction.. i can't help it, its reflexes.. whether I was raised that way, or trained that way, probably both..
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
No tats, no riots, no excuses....just skills and championships.....
and millions of fans
let me come up to you..yell things at you...shove you backwards by the neck and throw my towel and stuff at you...then..My buddys going to walk up and dump a full thing of beer on you...then when you come to shove me down..I'm going to have the rest of my friends jump on you and start decking you. Please tho, don't get anyone to come help you..because it's your fault! NOT MINE...
Who hasn't been fouled hard in a game, no one, period. You go to the free throw line and then get even on the other end. This continual punklike need to confront another player with fisticuffs or other physical intimidation is childish behavior that we should have learned as children would not be tolerated. There are hard slides in baseball, brushbacks too, hard hits in hockey and other contact sports. Its way past time to send a message to NBA players to knock it off or you will be automatically suspended without pay for huge amounts of games.
People say that all these suspensions have ruined the Pacers' season. As long as Artest was on that team, the Pacers' season was doomed anyway. No team could possibly succeed with a player as selfish and self-centered as Artest.
The funny thing about all of this is that, based on his recent statements and actions about his record label, we all have the thought in the back of our minds that maybe this is exactly the "out" that he was looking for. He was looking for a month off? Well Artest grossly miscalculated and now has about 9 months off.
Yes Ron Artest is a talented athlete, but he gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "ten-cent head".
How much "danger" was Artest really in, being a professional athlete with superb conditioning "facing off" against a couple of drunk fans who were half his size? Yup, blindly throwing preemptive haymakers made perfect sense ...