What makes collectors think that dealers will sell coins at "bid"?
MrEureka
Posts: 24,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm amazed how many collectors think they can buy coins at CDN "bid". I'm even more amazed at the number of dealers that think exactly the same thing. They should know better.
No question, really, just venting...
No question, really, just venting...
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Have nice dinner, maybe a drink, pet your dog-relax.
-brian
<< <i>Probably the same thing that makes people think they'll win a lot of money when they go to Vegas. >>
So, true. LOL
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I am what they call a "retail" customer. They probably call me other things behind my back.
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<< <i>I do not think I have ever purchased a coin at or near bid. >>
Always under or always over ? If always over you are kidding correct ?
Ken
<< <i>probably the same reason everyone wants to buy a car at wholesale prices- the info on wholesale prices is available to anyone who wants it these days. mike >>
In reality a car is worth no more than the factory is willing to sell it for. A dealer just adds cost; he doesn't add value. The car owner would be better served if the dealerships were owned by the factory.
No doubt! There's this guy bidding on Commems at EurekaTrading and he's offering like $70 for a PCGS MS-65 Iowa that has a CDN bid of $95. And $225 for a 1920 PCGS MS-65 Pilgrim with a CDN bid of $258 etc.
Ahem, cough, cough....
Ridiculous. If that were true, people would just call the factory and get a car sight unseen, at the bulk rate.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I wish I could tell you how many he's bought!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Although,
coins that I buy for re-sale purposes which are usually <1500.00, I can buy at near bid levels and sometimes a little less from local dealers if I buy in quantity and frequent them enough. The keys and semi keys if nice are still hard to squeeze them on, becuase they know they can sell them to thier retail customers easily?
jim
<< <i>Ridiculous. If that were true, people would just call the factory and get a car sight unseen, at the bulk rate. >>
Well the factory won't sell direct to the individual so thats how they get ya. The value is added when the car is assembled from the parts. After that all that is added is cost or overhead.
Dey kooky in dey bone-head.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Look for coins that are high end for the grade and be willing to pay a price commensurate to the quality. That's the way to get ahead in the coin game.
OTOH, much of the stuff I see when I go to shows is nothing special, and should go between bid and ask. I've seen dealers not buy coins right and have them sit in their cases for so long that they grow moss on their north sides. These are CDN bid coins, except a knowledgeable collector won't want them in the first place.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
The collector has the responsbility to offer what they think is fair, the seller then determines to make the trade based on the price.
If you want to sell and I'm th only option you will take a loss...eventually.
collector wants it badly he pays, dealer wants the money - he discounts
<< <i>Hey Tonelover how many coins do you or your boss sell at bid? None. >>
You obviously haven't been watching my ebay auctions lately.
<< <i>In reality a car is worth no more than the factory is willing to sell it for. A dealer just adds cost; he doesn't add value. The car owner would be better served if the dealerships were owned by the factory. >>
Not talking new from the mint/factory here- talking about second hand coins/cars.
<< <i>probably the same reason everyone wants to buy a car at wholesale prices- the info on wholesale prices is available to anyone who wants it these days. mike >>
Apples and oranges. A car loses 1/3 of its value the moment it leaves the showroom.
But a coin only loses 20% of its value the moment it leaves the dealer's case.
I've had an NGC MS65 Oregon that is beautiful on the B/S/T for several days with an asking price of Greysheet Bid with a 10 day no questions return. I haven't even gotten a nibble.
I would gladly have paid bid for the coin when I bought it some years ago.....but no one is interested today at bid. Although, I know in a few weeks I can go to the local coin show and easily get bid from a dealer. I just thought I'd give some collectors a chance to buy it at bid.
As for my chosen specialty of seated dimes, I have seldom been able to pay bid for any of the coins. However, I have often been able to trade with dealers on bid-to-bid basis. That has worked out real well in many instances.
I've had an NGC MS65 Oregon that is beautiful on the B/S/T for several days with an asking price of Greysheet Bid with a 10 day no questions return. I haven't even gotten a nibble.
Offer $3 gold, No Motto Southern gold, Type I $20's (especially New Orleans), Type II Gold $1's, better date San Francisco eagles and half eagles, Carson City gold (esp $5's and $10's from the 1870's), and No Motto Liberty Seated quarters and halves at bid. I will buy as much of that stuff as you can pony up.
<< <i>But a coin only loses 20% of its value the moment it leaves the dealer's case. >>
I agree Robert- buy a coin from dealer A at a show and show it to dealer B for an offer- I think 20% might a bit generous. mike
I agree with you.
For most of what I collect, I use Trends as a price guide. A typical coin may have a dealer buy price of 55-75% Trends and a retail sell price of 70-95% Trends.
First the CDN is not a "concept". It's a publication and a business. Second, I don't understand why you say the CDN is a scam. They are clear about what they claim to do, and they do that job well.
There should be one accepted guide, whether it be trends, redbook, or whatever.
While you're planning things for the rest of us, tell us how many grading services we should have, how many coin dealers we should have and, for that matter, how many restaurants we should have in New York City. Then tell us how you plan to achieve your targets.
The greysheet is something that a dealer wants to use when buying a coin, as in "I'm paying 20% under bid for that", but then is not used to sell...as in "I have to get 15% over ask for that, which is close to trends".
Some dealers use that approach and that's THEIR choice. But there are thousands of dealers out there doing things differently.
Let's simplify things and have one price guide that's updated on realistic regular intervals. It could list retail values, and the buy price could be based on that...say 75% of retail. This at least would be a starting point for pricing, with higher quality coins demanding more and clunkers less.
Fine. All you need to do is publish the guide and get the whole world to think that with your guide, the rest are a waste of time or money. Then, the other guides will go out of business and you'll have your wish.
The greysheet just clouds the water.
If you believe that, don't read the CDN.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Why don't dealers even wanna pay bid? Ask is sposed to be what dealer A will sell to dealer B for so you gotta believe that there is room for dealer B to mark up above ask. Its hard to believe that the entire greysheet is derived from the the sale of one or two exceptional coins and that all the rest is just junk. >>
Surprised no one echoed this sentiment.
If a dealer picks up coins cheap, the dealer can afford to pass some savings on to the buyer. I do it all the time. My cost is a big factor in deriving my selling price.
Because everybody and their brother has a sheet and that's all that they want to pay. Because most coins that walk up to the table aren't exceptional and will just sit in stock for a long time. Because a smaller dealer has to make 25-30% on most coins to stay in business and a larger dealer probably wants to just wholesale it off.
David
Not true. Virtually every dealer I know will happily buy coins to make a quick 5-10% profit on resale to another dealer. They're willing to work on small margins because the transaction costs on dealer-to-dealer sales are virtually nil. On the other hand, most dealers, large and small, need to make bigger margins on retail sales to justify the expenses of a retail operation. Salesmen, websites and advertising don't come cheap.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The CDN works OK for searchable teletype transactions on certain things. Proof sets are an example because there are a few marketers who run constant and changing bids. Circ dollars can be extrapolated from a few dealers who make markets.
Otherwise CDN is in reality nothing more than speculative history being tested. I once needed a capped bust half dime, dime, and quarter for an insistent customer and ran a buy on the teletype for ONE of each in XF at "ask." Whaddya think happened? Yep, next week grey sheet had 3 plusses in the ENTIRE circ type page. For THREE coins.
Surprised eBay isn't gunning to replace the Redbook with a printed database. Coors, they'd hafta use a different colored cover.
Of course many other good reasons already have been stated here.
Until this simple fact is addressed, only the most common stuff will be accurately portrayed.