Tracking a 1795 Half
shylock
Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
Over the past few years this flowing hair with wild adjustment marks has been in an ANACS Net EF40/AU details holder ($3220), an NGC XF45 holder ($6037), and is now for sale in an NGC AU58 holder (est. value $12-15,000). Do you think it went to NCS, or one of their competitors, in between the 2 NGC slabs?
Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
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Cameron Kiefer
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Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
<< <i>Is it just me or is that one butt ugly coin.... >>
It's not just you.
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ANACS should never have netted the coin in the first place. Adjustment marks are a part of the minting process.
However, it is a sad commentary on the state of the hobby regarding the "gradeflation" on that particular coin. Really pathetic how the masses put so much faith into plastic.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
.....and yes, the coin has been doctored along the way. Looked better before the dipping. Where's the posse?
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Incredible work on the tracking of that coin. I have to e-mail you....
-----------Lloyd
I have written to others about my concern of the constant grade-flation. HOW can this coin be a net 40 with adjustment marks, (which of couse is not a reason to net grade), then go from a 45 to a 58???? I am grabbing my chest. It is getting to be ridiculous. THE COIN WAS NICEST IN THE ANACS SLAB.
Jim
Let's just say that I'm glad that nobody publishes price guides for sight unseen quality AU 58 early type.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Agree it look buuttt ugly.
That coin looks dipped between the ANACS and first NGC holder. The dipping makes the "adjustment marks" more apparent so hurts the eye appeal for me, but not for the buyer it seems....
BTW if I were adjusting the weight I would not want to ruin the look of the coin. Where are the adjustment marks on other coins? I'd rather adjust the reverse than the obverse.
Note - could have been had for $1840 in 1999....
1) First known listing: Nov 19, 1936, J.C.Morgenthau
2) AU50, (net VF30); "extensive adj mks obv", Jun 1988, B+M, Everson/Faught, Lot 2006, $2530
3) MS60, "extensive adj mks obv", Sep 1988, Superior, Lee/Shaffer, Lot 4265, $2860
4) AU50, "extensive adj mks obv", Jan 1992, B+M, Brilliant, Lot 23, $1210
5) AU58, "heavy adj mks obv", Jul 1993, Heritage, ANA-Baltimore, Lot 5296, $4290
6) EF45, "heavy adj mks obv", Nov 1999, B+M, Lindesmith/LaRiviere, Lot 2030, $1840
7) SEGS-55, (SEGS: Adjustment Marks); "numerous adj mks obv", Aug 2001, Heritage, ANA-Atlanta, Lot 8851, $2818
8) ANACS-40, (AU net Adjustment Marks); "adj mks obv", Feb 2002, Heritage, Long Beach, Lot 5725, $3335
9) ANACS-40, (AU net Adjustment Marks); "adj mks obv, green-gold and lavender patina", Jun 2002, Heritage, Long Beach, Lot 7180, $3220
10) NGC-45, "heavy adjustment mks obv", Nov 2003, Heritage, New York, Lot 6593, $6038
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Now, on the other hand, it WOULD be a big deal if this were the "Plastic Forum" and not the "Coin Forum". (Sorry, Dorkkarl made me say it.
BTW, great thread!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
roadrunner
Maybe coins have been a better investment than some people realize?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Roadrunner - Not fair to EACA. The coin is in an NGC holder and could have been consigned anywhere else with a similar write-up.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<- 4) AU50, "extensive adj mks obv", Jan 1992, B+M, Brilliant, Lot 23, $1210-
Maybe coins have been a better investment than some people realize?>
That is selective picking of PreTurb's data who also notes:
<AU50, (net VF30); "extensive adj mks obv", Jun 1988, B+M, Everson/Faught, Lot 2006, $2530>
Anybody should be able to double their money since 1988.....
Carl - Wanna short me the 1795 at double it's 1988 price?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
No.
In 1988 I was working hard and in debt. It was month to month, hand to mouth, 60 hours a week of work. Since then I've had most investments go bust, but I was able to land two jobs with start up companies that succeeded. So I now have the luxury to work for almost nothing selling coins part time from my home and to be happy to delline your offer because that coin is ugly.
Carl - OK, since you're rich now, I'll have to pay more. How about shorting me the coin for triple the 1988 price?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Any good coin doctor should be able to figure out how to remove a lasered serial number from a coin's edge.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>BTW if I were adjusting the weight I would not want to ruin the look of the coin. Where are the adjustment marks on other coins? I'd rather adjust the reverse than the obverse. >>
The adjustments are done to the planchet before striking. Wheter the adjustments show up on the obverse, reverse or both depends on how the planchet happens to land between the dies.
And these are adjustment marks, not post mint damage. Yes they are stronger on the devices and that would be true either way. But the weaker marks in the fields continue all the way up to the edge (and on up) of the devices. If it was post mint damage the file would "bridge" between the devices and the fields a little way out from the devices and the scrape marks would not go all the way to the devices.
An expert who has most Flowing Hair die marriages says that about 25% of FH half dollars have adjustment marks, usually much lighter than this example. The Draped Bust series has less adjustment marks and it appears they used finer files in these years, as varieties such as 1806 O.107 often have fine adjustment marks in the reverse clouds and stars, an area that was never struck solidly to press out the adjustment marks. Adjustment marks are much less common with Capped Bust Halves. Women did the filing of the planchents in the US Mint's "adjustment room".
I would have liked to own this coin before it was dipped as an example of extreme adjustment marks, it also has one of the highest technical grades of this rare variety. Too bad it was needlessly dipped for a profit motive.
Bill
the coin got to AU58, and has been cracked out a 'few' times.
is/was there any potential that she got to 58, due to an 'influential' submitter, as opposed to a bit of grading 'leeway' due to its age/date?
No, you are both "butt ugly".
Kidding aside, I would not be interested in a coin with adjustment marks on the obverse, especially on the portrait. When they are on the reverse, and not too conspicuous, I think that they add some old-time history and charm.
Ouch!
Bill