NT or AT? Opinions Sought - NEW PIC

magikbilly

Hi All,
looking for opinions on the toning of this PCGS PR63 Benson Barber 10c. I have 2 pics posted of the same coin - one is a glare on digital photo showing the color, the other is a new flat high DPI scan. Does this coin strike you as natural or AT? I feel it is original but 2 people have said it is/may be blatant AT and would never get into another holder so I'd like your opinions - thanks!

Best,
Billy

BillJones

You posted these pictures before.

As I said before, I'm not a fan of the top coin which all of the milk spots. The toning might be real, but I'm not thrilled with it. The bottom coin looks NT.

magikbilly

Hi and thanks

Bill - these are images of the same coin. I have never posted the bottom image before this moment and thought it might help some render an opinion. Just looking for a some additional opinions now that some have questioned the color.

Best,
Billy

BillJones

I don't know.

It just shows how you can play with pictures and totally change the look of the coin. You can get really radical and do away with nicks and scratches VERY easily. We had a thread on that last summer.

magikbilly

Hi,
well, my 1892 looks the same way in hand depending if the glare is on it or not. Without the glare the colors are not fiery and it looks sort of glossy - in the glare they scream of the coin.

Best,
Billy

MrSpud

It doesn't look like one that was baked with sulfides. The baked ones usually have more of that wierd purple splotched in with the blue and the color fills in the area right around the devices more than this. In my opinion it probably was exposed to sulfides from paper either in an album or in an envelope more or less naturally over time. What's the reverse look like?

morgannut2

It's my understanding that Benson was not a educated numistatist and bought a lot of cleaned and freshly dipped material. As I understand it, he just put away tons of stuff in old albums and other acidic storage environments. Because so many of his coins had fresh white surfaces, the long natural exposures to hydrogen sulfide gases resulted in some very colorfull coins. While all the colors are NT because they resulted from long term, natural, and unintentional oxidation--- never the less, some colors are very odd looking due to dipping, cleaning, etc that occured Before the coins were stored by Benson. That may be the cause of the odd looking toning on your coin. No one put it in an oven or empty coin dip jar, etc., etc. making it an AT coin altered with the intent to decieve anyone.

magikbilly

<< <i>It doesn't look like one that was baked with sulfides. The baked ones usually have more of that wierd purple splotched in with the blue and the color fills in the area right around the devices more than this. In my opinion it probably was exposed to sulfides from paper either in an album or in an envelope more or less naturally over time. What's the reverse look like? >>



Hi MrSpud

it was suggested this was a blatant vaseline/sulphur job etc. I don't think so. Here is the reverse.



Best,
Billy

morgannut2

Well now seeing the reverse I say anyone calling it AT is outright wrong. At PR 63, I asume it has a few hairlines and MIGHT have been dipped (who can tell?), but the toning pattern is standard album oxidation and NT, and the dime might even upgrade to PR 64 these days on a cross to NGC Registry Set. Nice colors.

MrSpud

I'd guess it was album toned. I have a Morgan that I bought a while back when I was first trying to figure out what good toning looked like. I now think this is AT, I'll put it up for comparison.

magikbilly

Hi,

Thanks MrSpud and morgannut2. Your advice and opinions are appreciated. I was aware of the storage circumstances that led to the color on a lot of these coins - it is better than an oven and I am sure a lot of other toned Proofs experienced this same "fate". I find this to look "more" original than the '92 I posted before. many have asked if the Benson pedigree is part of my decision - it is not. I just think the coin is beautiful. The "Benson" on the label means about as much as any of the other numbers and shiny things on the slabs - what matters to me is what I think of the coin and the grade. Your opinions help me and I thank you

Best,
Billy

Coinhusker1

<< <i>I'd guess it was album toned. I have a Morgan that I bought a while back when I was first trying to figure out what good toning looked like. I now think this is AT, I'll put it up for comparison. >>



I like that Morgan. Looks NT to me, likely target toned from the holder.

Coinhusker1

Magikbilly, all your photo links are red-x's now.

morgannut2

OK last post with tricks of the trade instead of worthless opinion. One diagnostic test to destinguish AT vs NT is to look at the field around a letter, date or other high spot. For NT where you find the field one color but an adjacent high spot a slightly different shade, then look inside the letter, date, etc. If the Field color "jumps" the higher area into the lower area inside the date, etc. and is the SAME then it's an indication of NT. The key areas on a Morgan are the incuse letters inside Liberty's headband, the date, and the letters on the obverse. The motto, lows of eagle's wing, etc. on reverse are keys on Morgans. The tip off on the dime is the same colors around and within the letters, but different shade on the high points. This color difference can only be caused by H 2 S gas, and not a "painting" with sulfur bearing viscous liquid. High heat can mimic gas, but the colors aren't right.---- I hope these scientific data help..

XpipedreamR

Red X-O-Rama

MrSpud

<< <i>I like that Morgan. Looks NT to me, likely target toned from the holder. >>



I'm still not certain, but I think that the Morgan is AT for 2 reasons. One is that the color rides right up from the field into the devices with little change and secondly the streaks on Liberty look just like some liquid was on them, perhaps from a incomplete rinse to remove some chemical that was applied around the edges to create/enhance the target tone look. Billys dime looks much more NT to me than this Morgan. I think that the Doctor was trying to achieve a target toned look similar to Billy's dime and they did a decent job. I'd guess it looked perfect at first and then kept darkening due to the imcomplete rinsing.

magikbilly

Hi MrSpud,

it was the streaks on Liberty's cheek that I noticed as well on that Morgan. Just doesn't look right although the target/rims look reasonable.

Best,
Billy