Keyword Spamming Poll for all the ethical members who care to take it.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, that's right, I said ethical. We bandy that word about here and climb up on our soapboxes claiming how important it is. We get all worked up about the "Good 'ol Boy Network" and why it's bad for the newbies when they run up against it. We make efforts to Self-Police our little corner of the Numismatic world. And then.....................
........................one of the flock violates a clear policy-----bye, bye ethics!!!!!!
........................the sides form-----hello there, Good 'ol Boys!!!!!!
........................newbies are confused, understandably so.
........................the "police' become part of the problem------now who do we trust?????
Then we all sit and wonder why there are so many off-topic threads at this forum and why there's so much constant bickering amongst members. You can't have things both ways. The replies that really intrigued me were the narrow minded assertions that the offending member-eBay-seller could be trusted, so the offense should be forgiven. Absolutely fricken' amazing!!!!! To further the problem, along comes a member and buys the coin in a protective attempt to justify everything by proving that the coin was as described????!!!!????
There is so much wrong with this whole deal and the replies to the original thread that it's embarrassing and understandable that so many come here, lurk and then either leave or join and leave after a short stay. It's also a cause of the continueing lessening of involvement with quite a few members.
In a word, is disgusting to strong??
Thanks for your indulgence, I hope you take the poll and respond.
Al H.
the edit was to add that this incident is really a good thing since it helps clarify who's who and where they are concerning ethics and such. if you have guts, comment in the thread. if not, take the poll and climb back in bed.
........................one of the flock violates a clear policy-----bye, bye ethics!!!!!!
........................the sides form-----hello there, Good 'ol Boys!!!!!!
........................newbies are confused, understandably so.
........................the "police' become part of the problem------now who do we trust?????
Then we all sit and wonder why there are so many off-topic threads at this forum and why there's so much constant bickering amongst members. You can't have things both ways. The replies that really intrigued me were the narrow minded assertions that the offending member-eBay-seller could be trusted, so the offense should be forgiven. Absolutely fricken' amazing!!!!! To further the problem, along comes a member and buys the coin in a protective attempt to justify everything by proving that the coin was as described????!!!!????
There is so much wrong with this whole deal and the replies to the original thread that it's embarrassing and understandable that so many come here, lurk and then either leave or join and leave after a short stay. It's also a cause of the continueing lessening of involvement with quite a few members.
In a word, is disgusting to strong??
Thanks for your indulgence, I hope you take the poll and respond.
Al H.
the edit was to add that this incident is really a good thing since it helps clarify who's who and where they are concerning ethics and such. if you have guts, comment in the thread. if not, take the poll and climb back in bed.
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Comments
al h.
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
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I do not like or approve of keyword scamming, but in the grand scheme of things, it is fairly trivial.
Things on ebay I do care about a lot:
1. Selling counterfeits as authentic.
2. Seller not sending coins that you have paid for.
3. Buyer not paying for coins.
4. Overcharging for shipping.
5. Not having a reasonable return policy.
6. Overgraded coins with lousy or no pictures.
7. Probably others that I cannot think of right now.
But keyword spamming is virtually a victimless crime, and if that were the only problem on ebay, we would have quite a bit less to talk about.
<< <i>But keyword spamming is virtually a victimless crime, and if that were the only problem on ebay, we would have quite a bit less to talk about. >>
Do you do much buying on eBay? I totally disagree with you, it is not trivial. In some non-coin categories you can do a search for a brand name and get a hundred hits with only ten of them being the brand you are searching for. I resent having to waste my time looking at auctions that are not selling the brand listed in the title.
Joe.
what is wrong is defending, trivializing and justifying the actions of others just because they're a chum of ours. that's called hypocricy and really is at the heart of this whole thing. K6AZ tried to say as much, so did others, but it's ignored. perhaps every member, maybe me included, has complained about that type of thing before and been clear that it's pretty much not right. yet when it's someone we call a friend it's OK!!!???!!! i can't figure which is the bigger crock.
without starting to sound too self-righteous
al h.
Ah, Al, but that was not part of the "no wiggle room" question. I do not care much about keyword spamming no matter who does it, friend or foe.
Apropos to your point...If some guy blows by you on the highway at 80 mph and cuts you off, he is a jerk and gets the finger. If the guy is your best friend, he gets a friendly wave.
but WHY IS IT K6AZ'S SELF-APPOINTED JOB TO ADDRESS IT???
it's a E - B - A - Y P - R - O - B - L - E - M !!!
bring it to ebay's att'n, if they choose to do nothing about it, TOUGH BANANAS. that just means they have a loose policy, & you'll just have to find another way to do your stupid searches.
the PCGS COIN FORUM is an idiotic place to address this issue.
K S
It is annoying, but it's not ripping anybody off. There is one guy that sells loupes with "Get more PCGS NGC" in the title.
It is OK for a CU Forum member to do it, since the villagers get all confused about feasting on one of their own.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Well said Keets. Yes it is wrong and a great annoyance on eBay.
<< <i>The replies that really intrigued me were the narrow minded assertions that the offending member-eBay-seller could be trusted, so the offense should be forgiven. >>
That's the way it is around here most of the time. A good 'ol boys club. I'm glad some people here freely speak their mind.
YOU may have had good relations but there may come further instances of breaking the rules and someone may not come out as good. But, it is ok because it was good for YOU, right?
I've looked at JB's items. I've respected him. But, I think he keyword spammed and I think that is wrong. I think that buying the coin to prove a point was stupid (no offense Rick) unless you really wanted the coin. Reminds me too much of "dealer-collusion" from another thread recently. Notice it wasn't a pure collector who did this but another dealer?
JB has been smart in this....he hasn't posted and has stayed out of it. Keeps a lot of the flames down. JB isn't stupid. He's smart. He shows it. To that end, he knew exactly what he was doing.
Dorkkarl.....you complain about K6az's supposed agenda on this...yet, you obviously have a gnat up your butt against him as you continually call out that supposed agenda. So, it is the pot calling the kettle black in this case.
You say "the PCGS COIN FORUM is an idiotic place to address this issue." and you could well be right (except a lot of things you bring up really don't belong on the PCGS COIN FORUM either since you are Mr Anti-slab).
So, you could well be right that it doesn't belong here....but, at least it is coin related and it shows some hypocrisy of people (not just the one in question in the other thread).
Anyway, I obviously voted "yes" on this one. I don't like it. it is bothersome. And, I don't think just because a person is "a nice guy" or "a known good seller here" it is ok for them to do it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Ken
Sellers obviously keyword spam to trick people into viewing their auctions.
What good does it really do the seller? A bidder clicks in to their auction, discovers it has nothing to do with what they're looking for, gets pi$$ed off and will never look at the sellers stuff again. I think it can hurt a seller more than help them.
I agree with Karl, it is an eBay problem.................. but............... when one of the members of this forum does it i believe we have the right to call him/her on it. Do we (shouldn't we?) as a collective hold ourselves to a higher realm of ethical behavior ?
(i use the term "we" meaning those who have been here for quite some time and deserve the respect of those of us who are fairly new)
(those who have "proved their bones" as one long standing member put it a while back)
His Kung Fu is strong
<< <i>I voted no! A simple click of the back button will rectify your two second waste of time. JMO!
Ken >>
Well, sometimes keyword spammers can end up being about 20 - 30% or more of the search items, which does waste a significant amount of time to wade through. Fortuneately, most of the spam is from the same few sellers, so I just exclude them from the search.
but again, when someone breaks that rule, the resolution of the problem belongs ON EBAY.
K S
<< <i>What IrishMike said---BFD--read the auction and decide what you want to do-- I find it interesting that most of the outraged are experienced pros that will never be mislead. The original issue of JB's "PCGS or NGC" listing was very clearly explained in the auction description. It was part of the guarantee. Flame on!! >>
You may want to read that auction a little more closely. He added his "guarantee" this morning after I caught him with his hand in the cookie jar.
Personally my time on the Internet looking for Quality Coins is very limited. I have a very busy life like most of us do. We live life in the "Fast Lane". So when I do a search for a particular item it does frustrate me when some other garbage comes up. I don't have the time to weed through the garbage to find what I'm really looking for. I've been burnt on ebay before. I joined this board to help me learn about coins and coin collecting. I have alot of faith and respect for members here. Many here have been "Very" helpful to me so far and for that I'm grateful. It's like when we're raising our children. One of our goals we try to achieve, and have them understand, is right from wrong. Are things like this any different? Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong. I've been looking for an honest forum where people can be trusted and hoped this was it? Yes, I feel it is. Things like this come up here very infrequently overall as a whole. I just store the names of these individuals in a database and go elsewhere to spend my money. Is this really a big issue in the overall scheme of things? No, but it is an issue. Just my opinion, Lee