Do die cracks help, hurt, or have no effect on value?

Longacre

I would assume that die cracks are just indicative of a late die state and have no impact on a coin's value. Does anyone have any opinions? Thanks.

anablep

I have many Morgans with die cracks and they are not any more valuable monetarily than non-die cracked morgans. In my mind, they are more interesting to look at and therefore more valuable to me. I think some 1921-D Morgans are but i'm not sure.

ziggy29

In general, no effect, though particularly cool and interesting ones will often command a (usually) modest premium.

cladking

<< <i>Do die cracks help, hurt, or have no effect on value?
>>



Yes.

They generally have little or no effect on price but they do have an effect on many
collectors. People value coins differently and some will see them as a distraction
while others will see them as extra bang for the buck. This can affect the price a
little in some cases if potential buyers tend to walk on by but can result in a higher
price if a collector has to have it because of the die crack.

Peaceman

I think it affeects price a little but only at very high grades with no pop higher........

dorkkarl

it's not the "die crack" that matters, it's the DIE STATE.

quite often, a die state is attributed based on how advanced die-cracks are, etc.

do not confuse the significance of the 2 terms. generally, a die-crack has no significant on value, unless it's an attribution determinant.

K S

nwcs

No real effect in value. If they're interesting, though, may help a little for some people.

ms70

I think it matters just to the individual collector. I personally love a real interesting die crack on an old coin.

solid

In general, I don't think they affect the price one way or the other.

There are some interesting cracks that will add a little something to
the value, such as San Francisco War nickels with a crack running
right through that big ol' S turning it into a $.

Ken

Edited to add: Don't forget what it did for the value of the PMM quarter!

OnlyBuffalos

There are some Bust Half Dollars for which die cracks have some significance in their value to collectors.

Generally the die state (known as prime) of a bust half dollar exhibits no cracks. Important variations (die states) of the same die marriage will sometimes develop significant die cracks and be worth more or less because of scarcity.

For example, an 1808 Overton-104 half dollar is a rarity 2 coin. The same die marriage with a die crack from star 6 to Liberty's head is known as 1808 Overton 104a. It was once classified as a rarity 3 coin but is now a rarity 5 coin. It is more "valuable" than the Overton-104 die state.

Conversely, an 1808 Overton-102 is a rarity 5 coin. The obverse has no die cracks. It is a much sought after coin.

The same die marriage, 1808 Overton-102a has a distinct die crack running through the date up to Liberty's ribbon. It is a rarity 2 coin. It is less "valuable" than the 1808 Overton-102.

All things being equal (such as rarity) for a given date and Overton variety, many bust half collectors prefer the prime die state which looks sharper.

I think most collectors prefer the early die state of most coins in any series over a later die state. For specialists this can be an entirely different story.

BillJones

There is no one answer to this question.

For those who collect die states of die varieties of early U.S. coinage, die breaks or the absence of them, can raise or lower the desirability of a specific coin.

For type collectors, die breaks can be indicators of less than perfect strikes. Since type collectors usually want the sharpest examples of a given design, late die states can be something that they would avoid. Ditto for some date and mint collectors.

Here’s an example. One of the key dates in the Indian Cent series is the 1872. Those who have had a lot of experience with this date will recall that some coins of are weakly stuck on the shield at the top of the reverse. After looking a number of pieces, I learned the cause of this when I was able to examine a choice Mint State example. I noted a series of very small die breaks within the “United States of America” on the obverse. As a result the corresponding areas on the reverse, including the shield are weakly struck. I can tell you from experience that such coins are harder to sell than the sharply struck examples.

Don’t get me wrong. Die breaks can add interest to a given coin. AND they can be diagnostic markers for very scarce die varieties and certification of some very rare dates. For example advanced Morgan Dollar collectors are well aware of the die break or die mark that appears on all genuine 1893-S dollars (most commonly noted on the “T” in “LIBERTY.”)

As you can see blanket statements concerning die breaks are really impossible to make.

Wolf359

If you're a die break freak they certainly matter! And yes, 21-D coins with breaks and early die states of the really rare breaks (like VAM-1X) would certainly command a premium.

RYK

I like die cracks. In the case of the following, the distinctive die cracks on the reverse attribute the coin as an ex-Reece (board member) specimen:

Barndog

another die crack/value thread. My sentiments are pretty much the same as dorkkarl's insofar as early Federal silver is concerned.

Steve27

Barndog - dead thread resuscitator.

PerryHall

<< <i> In the case of the following, the distinctive die cracks on the reverse attribute the coin as an ex-Reece (board member) specimen >>



How can you use die cracks to attribute a coin to a specific collection when every coin struck from that die after the cracks formed will show the same die crack pattern? I also have an 1843-O $10 with the same die crack pattern as the one you illustrated.

Barndog

<< <i>Barndog - dead thread resuscitator. >>



I think there is a tremendous amount of value in these supposedly "dead" threads that can do so many things for us: further our knowledge of general and specific subjects in numismatics, encourage us to pursue further research on our own, and remind people that the USCF is an incredibly valuable research tool.

So yes, guilty.

PerryHall

Is it possible to have a perfect MS70 or PF70 coin that shows a die crack?

Barndog

<< <i>Is it possible to have a perfect MS70 or PF70 coin that shows a die crack? >>



There's an inconclusive (I think) discussion on this topic HERE

tychojoe

With regard to pricing/cash value attributes, I know only what you guys have taught here.

But it has a gee-golly cool factor for me, since I just discovered my first die-crack accidentally only yesterday. I put the little freebie magnifier I got with my 1st order over some Morgans, and lo, there on the reverse of an 1899-O was a little silver thread arcing from the O thru the star and across all the UNITED. It was nice to know what that feature came from. It's subtle but it has a nice symmetry to it, and I can see it now without the magnifier. And all that was prompted by a thread I read here at the time...Cool forum...Thanks, guys and gals!

Anyway, this is going OT, but can anyone steer me to a resource about 1899-O Morgan die varieties?

1798CentCollector

Die cracks are typically interesting and add desirability to collecting. They usually do not add monetary value, unless possibly associated with a rare or terminal die state. Die cracks have different stages of progression and often result in cuds in the very late stage or state. In a generic sense, the appearence is not always necessarily associated with any particular state for all coins, such as early, late, or middle. In fact, the preparation or improper preparation of the die can cause a crack to appera in the very earliest states - take the 1798 S-166 LC, for example where a large crack arcs from right to left at the fraction across the reverse in all known die states- early middle, and late. The crack does develop somewhat as the die is used.

Baley

If it's an interestingly and fortuitously placed crack, and you can give it a catchy name like "bearded goddess" or "speared buffalo*", then it can increase the value.

If the crack(s) are part of a late die state that's significantly rarer than the non-cracked, it generally warrants a premium among specialists, particularly if the cracks are dramatic or result in chips or cuds.


(*yes I know the SB is a die gouge or scratch and not a crack but you get the point)

MrHalfDime

"Is it possible to have a perfect MS70 or PF70 coin that shows a die crack?"

Interesting question, but one might also ask "Is it possible to have an MS-70 or PF-70 coin that does not exhibit a die crack?

What I mean by that is this. In my ongoing die state studies of Capped Bust half dimes, I have had several opportunities to closely examine very high MS grade examples of half dimes, under the microscope, to determine their place in the emission sequence, or perhaps to determine the existence of another remarriage. When studying such high grade specimens, under high magnification, I am continually amazed at the presence of a myriad of tiny little die cracks, often appearing like a spider web across the surface of the coin. These die cracks are typically very tiny and delicate, and would not be visible on even high AU grade specimens, as they would have worn away in even light circulation. Many/most of these tiny die cracks are not mentioned in the available literature, as they were likely never seen by the authors. It gave me a whole new perspective on the subject of die cracks. We tend to think of die cracks as an infrequent phenomenon, and usually catastrophic to the die, eventually leading to its removal from service. But I have learned that die steel cracks with much greater frequency than I had imagined, although most die cracks never progress to a point where they become visible on even lightly circulated coins, and even fewer grow to a size that would warrant a discontinuation of use of the die. Generally, it appears that the higher the grade of the coin, under high magnification, the greater the number of die cracks that become visible. Remember that all coins began life as uncirculated, so presumably all would exhibit these tiny die cracks.

Perhaps not what you meant by your question, but I thought it was appropriate to inject this observation into the discussion.

MikeKing

I think Bill Jones hit it on the nose.
Personally, I like die cracks, they make the coin more interesting, but a lot of people don't, so while I might be willing to go a little more on a coin with die cracks, there are many who would prefer not.

Wolf359

Anyway, this is going OT, but can anyone steer me to a resource about 1899-O Morgan die varieties?

The most interesting ones are listed here on www.vamworld.com

dorkkarl

<< <i>How can you use die cracks to attribute a coin to a specific collection when every coin struck from that die after the cracks formed will show the same die crack pattern? >>

this is not a general rule, but die-cracks are progressive, so 2 coins may have a particular diecrack the same, but 1 coin in a later die-state may have developed an additional crack. for a scarce issue where die cracks abound, combine that w/ condition & you have to factors that may very much narrow down the population of comparable coins



<< <i> Is it possible to have a perfect MS70 or PF70 coin that shows a die crack? >>

no, since 70 is a imaginary grade anyhow. but it takes a good die to produce a good strike to produce a good coin, so a broken die can automatically can only produce coins of inferior quality, hence the effect of die deterioration on strike should be taken into account in grading high-end coins

K S

ps i think many vams have nothing to do w/ die-cracks, in case you were unaware of that