I love ANACS for varieties, net grading, and personable service. They once returned a group of coins to me with a note on the invoice saying they were impressed with how accurately I had attributed the varieties in my submission. Small touches like that go a long way with collectors.
I've noticed they'll sometimes "silently" net grade a coin, just as PCGS and NGC does. Coin's that are very rare or very attractive but they have some reservations about will get knocked down a couple points rather that netted. Anyone else notice this?
How would you rate ANACS in grading modern (say 1970s to 2004) business strikes (and proofs)? Does ANACS award MS68 and MS69 grades when a modern coin deserves it, or does ANACS purposely cut a point or two so they can be perceived by the marketplace as a "tough" grading operation?
The reason for the question is my research of past posts about ANACS, which I'll summarize here. Generally, the comments were positive, but some problems were identified. I recall reading one comment in which an ANACS executive said he would "never" award a coin an MS70 or PR70 grade. Others wrote ANACS was lowballing modern proofs, complaining that pristine coins direct from the Mint were getting PR67 and lower grades. Another anecdote concerned bullion ASEs, which were getting MS67s and below, even though the coins appeared to be true 68s and 69s. (Some of these comments may also have appeared in this thread, but I'm merely summarizing information from the past.)
People seem to have forgotten the biggest purpose of 3rd party grading.......it's not about personable service, it's not about attractive holders, it's not about quick turnaround times, it's not about $15.00 specials. It's about liquidty, acceptance in the marketplace, cash backed grade guarantees, and prices realized when you go to sell.
Look at the lots in any major auction, large dealers inventories, showcases at major national shows, and what do you see.......there's a reason for it.
Sequitur --sorry I cannot help you with your question. But I suspect that anyone holding a modern they consider to be 68/69/70, they send it to PCGS hoping for the BIG SCORE and BIG $$$. When 68/69 PCGS moderns are commanding four and five figures who can blame them. Some of us (but not me in particular) just like collecting nice moderns nicely graded at prices we can afford. We cannot undersatand how two nice coins that are virtually identical, one can be bought for $50 and the other costs $10,000 (slapping my forehead and muttering "duh!")............
dragon -- hey one has to wonder, when dealer cases are filled with PCGS material and have only a handful of ANACS slabs, why is that? maybe the ANACS stuff is sitting in ACTUAL COLLECTIONS in the hands of ACTUAL COLLECTORS and not moving from one deal to the next waiting for a real owner. Ever consider that? Whenever I see a whole lot of something for sale, be it cars, homes, Beanies, or PCGS slabs, I gotta think why. Perhaps the ANACS stuff is in demand by real collectors........
<<< dragon -- hey one has to wonder, when dealer cases are filled with PCGS material and have only a handful of ANACS slabs, why is that? maybe the ANACS stuff is sitting in ACTUAL COLLECTIONS in the hands of ACTUAL COLLECTORS and not moving from one deal to the next waiting for a real owner. Ever consider that? Whenever I see a whole lot of something for sale, be it cars, homes, Beanies, or PCGS slabs, I gotta think why. Perhaps the ANACS stuff is in demand by real collectors........ >>>
No, I don't believe that's the case. The reason you don't see them in dealers cases at major shows is because they are hard to move or don't sell at all, not because they have all been snapped up by collectors.
The reason you don't see them in dealers cases at major shows is because they are hard to move or don't sell at all
Now why is that? We've got a large thread here with informed collectors saying ANACS is pretty darn good -- it's not PCGS, but they're a good service. If that's true, why aren't ANACS-graded coins "moving" or selling from dealer cases at shows? (I don't know that to be the case, but instead am relying on the anecdotes discussed here.)
<<< Now why is that? We've got a large thread here with informed collectors saying ANACS is pretty darn good -- it's not PCGS, but they're a good service. If that's true, why aren't ANACS-graded coins "moving" or selling from dealer cases at shows? (I don't know that to be the case, but instead am relying on the anecdotes discussed here.) >>>
Generally, the only ANACS coins that sell to collectors are inexpensive circulated type coins, error coins, or low grade inexpensive MS coins, that is where ANACS has a niche in the marketplace. These are generally the same types of coins that collectors typically submit to ANACS. You will rarely see high powered rarities, high grade, or expensive coins in ANACS holders, as both dealers and collectors know they will bring less money 99% of the time and are not as liquid.
For someone with relatively inexpensive type coins, variety coins, circulated early coppers, problem coins, etc. who is just looking to have his coins graded and holdered inexpensively, ANACS is fine.
as both dealers and collectors know they will bring less money 99% of the time and are not as liquid.
Thus in your view it's perceived market value, and not the grading service rendered by ANACS, which results in PQ coins winding up in other holders. Thus it's a seller's desire for marketability, rather than a collector's desire for grading accuracy, that results in the described trend.
You know, I'm going to give ANACS a try by sending over some PQ modern business strikes and see whether ANACS can give a 68-69 grade to what truly are some MS69 coins. I'm not interested in the saleability, I want accurate grades, so hopefully they can deliver.
In any event, this is a good thread. And I just won the Lincoln below for $18.50. Hope it's graded accurately.
<<< Thus in your view it's perceived market value, and not the grading service rendered by ANACS, which results in PQ coins winding up in other holders. Thus it's a seller's desire for marketability, rather than a collector's desire for grading accuracy, that results in the described trend. >>>
<< <i> We've got a large thread here with informed collectors saying ANACS is pretty darn good -- it's not PCGS, but they're a good service. If that's true, why aren't ANACS-graded coins "moving" or selling from dealer cases at shows? >>
You've answered your own question in a sense when you sated "its not PCGS." It may be pretty darn good for certain things in their niche, as Dragon points out, but "pretty darn good" may just be "not as good." When you're talking about spending serious money for rare or high grade coins, collectors want the most respected grading opinion they can get. If its an MS 63 non-key date Morgan, yeah who cares---its an easy call for collectors to buy the coin not the holder, but start talking about DMPLs or coins in 66 or higher grades and there are tougher grading calls to make and a lot more money at risk.
Some people think PCGS may be too tight on grades on those levels when they submit their own coins, but when it comes to buying they would rather spend their money on the coin with the opinion from the stricter grader.
Now, if you're really good at grading, you might swipe a bargain in an NGC or ANACS holder and get it into a PCGS holder. But if you're looking for high grade or rare coins that don't have net grade issues you may never see them in ANACS holders because those coins get sent to NGC or PCGS to begin with. Knowing that, many collectors would naturally be very wary if they were offered lets say a Morgan in an ANACS 67 holder.
I have found great Morgans in ANACS holders, especially some attractive rim toned ones in older holders. I almost exclusively look for ANACS Morgans. EXCEPTIONS: the 1893 & 1895-MM dated years. I'll look to PCGS, NGC & ANACS for those. I'd rather branch out my search to find the best possible examples for those coins.
I like ANACS very much. And I like the size of their holders, too.
Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
one thing to remember about those high grades, the 68's and 69's. why is PCGS correct in assigning them and ANACS wrong when they call the same coin a 67?? my mindset is moving in the direction that PCGS is setting the current grading standards by which all coins, collectors and graing services are measured by. that's a dangerous precedent, don't you think.
and dragon, you seem to be of the opinion that only crap gets sent to ANACS by collectors who are somehow judged to be less. can you be any more insulting and elitist?? please, please, please, stop drinking that Kool-Aid, someone has spiked it!!!!!!!!
I like ANACS for early type coins and silver dollars. I have been sending them more lately. But...I don't think they grade realistically with moderns. When a 10/10/10 submission all come back MS66 or PR66, it lets me know they didn't look at the coins. This is especially true when the PR66 was cracked and submitted to PCGS and it came back PR69DCAM. Grading is subjective, but missing a DCAM isn't subjective, it's blind!
Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 3-5, 2025 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
I think that ANACS is tougher on Modern coins than most collectors think. (I mean coins dated 1938 and LATER and I use that date only because of the Jefferson Nickel)
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<<< and dragon, you seem to be of the opinion that only crap gets sent to ANACS by collectors who are somehow judged to be less. can you be any more insulting and elitist?? please, please, please, stop drinking that Kool-Aid, someone has spiked it!!!!!!!! >>>
Insulting and elitist and judged to be less?? I wasn't aware that stating facts and trying to explain realities in the marketplace is being insulting and elitist. Do you dispute my statements with long histories of prices realized comparisons between PCGS and ANACS, or do you just resort to name calling without any real knowledge of the subject matter, or an educated opinion you can back up with experience?
As far as drinking PCGS Kool-Aid, nothing could be further from the truth, NOTHING. Again, just stating realities of 3rd party grading services and how they trade in the marketplace.
one thing to remember about those high grades, the 68's and 69's. why is PCGS correct in assigning them and ANACS wrong when they call the same coin a 67??
When a 10/10/10 submission all come back MS66 or PR66, it lets me know they didn't look at the coins. This is especially true when the PR66 was cracked and submitted to PCGS and it came back PR69DCAM. Grading is subjective, but missing a DCAM isn't subjective, it's blind!
This gets to the heart of it. In my estimation PCGS gets it right with the conditional rarities -- the 68s and 69s usually are graded accurately, and even the average collector can see such coins are a cut above the rest. So why would ANACS give the same coins a 67? Is it because ANACS is more accurate in its grading (doubt it), or is it because ANACS feels it necessary to undergrade PQ coins to develop a "tough" reputation (perhaps to make up for past leniency)?
And thanks for the info on the submission. It's this type of purposeful downgrading of near-flawless coins that's bothersome. If a coin is a 69, give it a 69, and as you say, it's troublesome a grading service would knock a modern coin 4 points and miss deep cameo.
I love ANACS it’s a good learning tool for us that have been out of the hobby since the late 80’s. I’m just now getting back into buying circulated gold coins (XF/low BU). I like owning gold and this is fun collecting old coins for near bullion in the $10 and some $20 liberty sizes. This service is a cheap learning tool for standards set by these 3rd parties that weren’t around when I collected. I can get a nice photo grade type system going for cheap while most starting out (back) prefer to take chances and get screwed in the process. Those that don’t think the new moderns have brought many of us back in are simply wrong IMO. I’m just not as gun-ho on higher grade coins anymore with the huge cost they bring.
I also have discovered modern $5 gold coins which most hate, so I love. These are near spot or mostly under $150 if you don’t chase. I tend to send these into ANACS when I buy them from someone breaking up a set that doesn’t think it will make an MS/PF 70/69. I think the mint did me a favor by making the 1/10 oz gold coin a $5 along with the near ¼ oz commemoratives! Nothing like collecting MS/PF 68+ for a little over spot on low mintage coins. Dealers don’t like these because they can’t make their normal margins but for collectors it’s great and it’s time will come. I don’t know if it will be in my lifetime but God willing my kids my see it with my collection. You just can’t lose much with these coins IMO. The common ones are bringing less than spot many times and they throw in the Silver dollar and maybe the Clad half in many sets! These common coins are prime for an HSN since they never made a million on any of them. MARKETING, MAKETING, MARKETING…..That’s the name of the game along with timing.
I’ll be interest to see how all these toned coin people make out, what’s a pretty toned coin today bringing big bucks may look like crap in 50 years. I have a Franklin set MS64 FBL and I still don’t trust the FBL typing , I guess I’m old school.
It’s nice being back but this is only a fun hobby for me this time……………….
Oh I almost forgot. Why don’t you see high dollar coins in ANACS holder?
Marketing is one reason. The other is while some on this board are true experts most of us aren’t when your splitting hairs. That can be seen by having to resubmit a coin at up to 30 bucks a pop to get it graded properly. I think many high dollar coins are screened d through ANACS and if 1 grade makes a huge difference when they come back that way they go to PCGS or NGC for those wanting to sell and make a profit.
IMO and I could be wrong if these coins weren’t crossing well you’d see more high grades in these holders just like AGC or the rest of the 3rd parties that grade for cheap.
Comments
I've noticed they'll sometimes "silently" net grade a coin, just as PCGS and NGC does. Coin's that are very rare or very attractive but they have some reservations about will get knocked down a couple points rather that netted. Anyone else notice this?
How would you rate ANACS in grading modern (say 1970s to 2004) business strikes (and proofs)? Does ANACS award MS68 and MS69 grades when a modern coin deserves it, or does ANACS purposely cut a point or two so they can be perceived by the marketplace as a "tough" grading operation?
The reason for the question is my research of past posts about ANACS, which I'll summarize here. Generally, the comments were positive, but some problems were identified. I recall reading one comment in which an ANACS executive said he would "never" award a coin an MS70 or PR70 grade. Others wrote ANACS was lowballing modern proofs, complaining that pristine coins direct from the Mint were getting PR67 and lower grades. Another anecdote concerned bullion ASEs, which were getting MS67s and below, even though the coins appeared to be true 68s and 69s. (Some of these comments may also have appeared in this thread, but I'm merely summarizing information from the past.)
Look at the lots in any major auction, large dealers inventories, showcases at major national shows, and what do you see.......there's a reason for it.
dragon -- hey one has to wonder, when dealer cases are filled with PCGS material and have only a handful of ANACS slabs, why is that? maybe the ANACS stuff is sitting in ACTUAL COLLECTIONS in the hands of ACTUAL COLLECTORS and not moving from one deal to the next waiting for a real owner. Ever consider that? Whenever I see a whole lot of something for sale, be it cars, homes, Beanies, or PCGS slabs, I gotta think why. Perhaps the ANACS stuff is in demand by real collectors........
Russ, NCNE
No, I don't believe that's the case. The reason you don't see them in dealers cases at major shows is because they are hard to move or don't sell at all, not because they have all been snapped up by collectors.
Now why is that? We've got a large thread here with informed collectors saying ANACS is pretty darn good -- it's not PCGS, but they're a good service. If that's true, why aren't ANACS-graded coins "moving" or selling from dealer cases at shows? (I don't know that to be the case, but instead am relying on the anecdotes discussed here.)
Yup. Shhhh.
Free Trial
Generally, the only ANACS coins that sell to collectors are inexpensive circulated type coins, error coins, or low grade inexpensive MS coins, that is where ANACS has a niche in the marketplace. These are generally the same types of coins that collectors typically submit to ANACS. You will rarely see high powered rarities, high grade, or expensive coins in ANACS holders, as both dealers and collectors know they will bring less money 99% of the time and are not as liquid.
For someone with relatively inexpensive type coins, variety coins, circulated early coppers, problem coins, etc. who is just looking to have his coins graded and holdered inexpensively, ANACS is fine.
Thus in your view it's perceived market value, and not the grading service rendered by ANACS, which results in PQ coins winding up in other holders. Thus it's a seller's desire for marketability, rather than a collector's desire for grading accuracy, that results in the described trend.
You know, I'm going to give ANACS a try by sending over some PQ modern business strikes and see whether ANACS can give a 68-69 grade to what truly are some MS69 coins. I'm not interested in the saleability, I want accurate grades, so hopefully they can deliver.
In any event, this is a good thread. And I just won the Lincoln below for $18.50. Hope it's graded accurately.
Nope, that's not what I said.
<< <i> We've got a large thread here with informed collectors saying ANACS is pretty darn good -- it's not PCGS, but they're a good service. If that's true, why aren't ANACS-graded coins "moving" or selling from dealer cases at shows? >>
You've answered your own question in a sense when you sated "its not PCGS." It may be pretty darn good for certain things in their niche, as Dragon points out, but "pretty darn good" may just be "not as good." When you're talking about spending serious money for rare or high grade coins, collectors want the most respected grading opinion they can get. If its an MS 63 non-key date Morgan, yeah who cares---its an easy call for collectors to buy the coin not the holder, but start talking about DMPLs or coins in 66 or higher grades and there are tougher grading calls to make and a lot more money at risk.
Some people think PCGS may be too tight on grades on those levels when they submit their own coins, but when it comes to buying they would rather spend their money on the coin with the opinion from the stricter grader.
Now, if you're really good at grading, you might swipe a bargain in an NGC or ANACS holder and get it into a PCGS holder. But if you're looking for high grade or rare coins that don't have net grade issues you may never see them in ANACS holders because those coins get sent to NGC or PCGS to begin with. Knowing that, many collectors would naturally be very wary if they were offered lets say a Morgan in an ANACS 67 holder.
CG
I like ANACS very much. And I like the size of their holders, too.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>I have found great Morgans in ANACS holders >>
At what grade level? Have any high grades crossed?
CG
one thing to remember about those high grades, the 68's and 69's. why is PCGS correct in assigning them and ANACS wrong when they call the same coin a 67?? my mindset is moving in the direction that PCGS is setting the current grading standards by which all coins, collectors and graing services are measured by. that's a dangerous precedent, don't you think.
and dragon, you seem to be of the opinion that only crap gets sent to ANACS by collectors who are somehow judged to be less. can you be any more insulting and elitist?? please, please, please, stop drinking that Kool-Aid, someone has spiked it!!!!!!!!
al h.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Insulting and elitist and judged to be less?? I wasn't aware that stating facts and trying to explain realities in the marketplace is being insulting and elitist. Do you dispute my statements with long histories of prices realized comparisons between PCGS and ANACS, or do you just resort to name calling without any real knowledge of the subject matter, or an educated opinion you can back up with experience?
As far as drinking PCGS Kool-Aid, nothing could be further from the truth, NOTHING. Again, just stating realities of 3rd party grading services and how they trade in the marketplace.
When a 10/10/10 submission all come back MS66 or PR66, it lets me know they didn't look at the coins. This is especially true when the PR66 was cracked and submitted to PCGS and it came back PR69DCAM. Grading is subjective, but missing a DCAM isn't subjective, it's blind!
This gets to the heart of it. In my estimation PCGS gets it right with the conditional rarities -- the 68s and 69s usually are graded accurately, and even the average collector can see such coins are a cut above the rest. So why would ANACS give the same coins a 67? Is it because ANACS is more accurate in its grading (doubt it), or is it because ANACS feels it necessary to undergrade PQ coins to develop a "tough" reputation (perhaps to make up for past leniency)?
And thanks for the info on the submission. It's this type of purposeful downgrading of near-flawless coins that's bothersome. If a coin is a 69, give it a 69, and as you say, it's troublesome a grading service would knock a modern coin 4 points and miss deep cameo.
I like their small slabs and their prices,turnaround,and no bodybags.They're great for an impatient collector with a limited budget.
I also have discovered modern $5 gold coins which most hate, so I love. These are near spot or mostly under $150 if you don’t chase. I tend to send these into ANACS when I buy them from someone breaking up a set that doesn’t think it will make an MS/PF 70/69. I think the mint did me a favor by making the 1/10 oz gold coin a $5 along with the near ¼ oz commemoratives! Nothing like collecting MS/PF 68+ for a little over spot on low mintage coins. Dealers don’t like these because they can’t make their normal margins but for collectors it’s great and it’s time will come. I don’t know if it will be in my lifetime but God willing my kids my see it with my collection. You just can’t lose much with these coins IMO. The common ones are bringing less than spot many times and they throw in the Silver dollar and maybe the Clad half in many sets! These common coins are prime for an HSN since they never made a million on any of them. MARKETING, MAKETING, MARKETING…..That’s the name of the game along with timing.
I’ll be interest to see how all these toned coin people make out, what’s a pretty toned coin today bringing big bucks may look like crap in 50 years. I have a Franklin set MS64 FBL and I still don’t trust the FBL typing , I guess I’m old school.
It’s nice being back but this is only a fun hobby for me this time……………….
Marketing is one reason. The other is while some on this board are true experts most of us aren’t when your splitting hairs. That can be seen by having to resubmit a coin at up to 30 bucks a pop to get it graded properly. I think many high dollar coins are screened d through ANACS and if 1 grade makes a huge difference when they come back that way they go to PCGS or NGC for those wanting to sell and make a profit.
IMO and I could be wrong if these coins weren’t crossing well you’d see more high grades in these holders just like AGC or the rest of the 3rd parties that grade for cheap.
Just a theory………
Mostly MS64s in old ANA holders.
I do not cross them. I don't play that game.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>I think that ANACS is tougher on Modern coins than most collectors think. >>
Shush!
Russ, NCNE