So you think you know how to grade??? Perhaps, but do you really know what a particular grade is??
keets
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I really think not, and that goes for me, also.
Did anyone catch the recent issue of CW which had a letter in it from a reader who's thoughts pertained to PCGS setting the grading standard which all subsequent services have followed?? I found it rather interesting and thought provoking. Being the slow study that I am, it had to roll around in my knoggin for awhile and has risen to the surface like so-much-cream with persistent threads which allude to grading. Here are my thoughts in the hopes we can have some interesting shared perspective.
I figure that coin grading has had attempts by various entities or individuals leading towards a standard which all can agree on----a futile effort!!!! We each see something different when we look at a coin. While one collector may place pre-emminence on luster, another may view strike as more important, still another surface clatter, and so on. Maybe there's attempts and progress at viewing a coin as a combination of all it's qualities, but the bias we each have will generally carry it's influence. Looking at grading services there is rarely a consensus of opinion which remains consistent from year-to-year or from service-to-service. And whether we like it or not, taken as a whole the grading services tend to guide the hobby's grading standards.
Who cares to try a particular coin just as an example??
This is one of mine. I purchased it from a local dealer and it was shown to a few dealers in Baltimore and DH before I posted these photos within a thread asking for opinions and submitting it to PCGS. There was hardly any agreement and probably noone was wrong!!!!!! In the end a couple of graders did agree and it's now accepted as an MS63. But is it?? With all the crossover/regrade threads lately I assume that noone knows what a given grade actually is or isn't. We seem to get a feel for what a grade should look like and as our experience within the hobby increases, I assume we change our personal standards according to what we see and what happens as we submit for opinions. Nothing is static in grading, more often it's fluid and ever-changing.
BTW, this is a semi-rant thread!!!
Al H.
Did anyone catch the recent issue of CW which had a letter in it from a reader who's thoughts pertained to PCGS setting the grading standard which all subsequent services have followed?? I found it rather interesting and thought provoking. Being the slow study that I am, it had to roll around in my knoggin for awhile and has risen to the surface like so-much-cream with persistent threads which allude to grading. Here are my thoughts in the hopes we can have some interesting shared perspective.
I figure that coin grading has had attempts by various entities or individuals leading towards a standard which all can agree on----a futile effort!!!! We each see something different when we look at a coin. While one collector may place pre-emminence on luster, another may view strike as more important, still another surface clatter, and so on. Maybe there's attempts and progress at viewing a coin as a combination of all it's qualities, but the bias we each have will generally carry it's influence. Looking at grading services there is rarely a consensus of opinion which remains consistent from year-to-year or from service-to-service. And whether we like it or not, taken as a whole the grading services tend to guide the hobby's grading standards.
Who cares to try a particular coin just as an example??
This is one of mine. I purchased it from a local dealer and it was shown to a few dealers in Baltimore and DH before I posted these photos within a thread asking for opinions and submitting it to PCGS. There was hardly any agreement and probably noone was wrong!!!!!! In the end a couple of graders did agree and it's now accepted as an MS63. But is it?? With all the crossover/regrade threads lately I assume that noone knows what a given grade actually is or isn't. We seem to get a feel for what a grade should look like and as our experience within the hobby increases, I assume we change our personal standards according to what we see and what happens as we submit for opinions. Nothing is static in grading, more often it's fluid and ever-changing.
BTW, this is a semi-rant thread!!!
Al H.
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Comments
K S
BTW what is the grade you think the shown coin is ? From the sound of the post it looks like you were after something higher. This is sort of inline with Mr Karl. If you like the coin "Who Cares" what a TPG puts on the plastic. Frustration over the shifting standards used by TPG's is not worth the stress.
Edit to insert shifting.
Ken
Look Al- now you got me ranting too
I collect what I like and the grade is far removed unless I want an investment coin, which I have some of, but enjoy a lot less than my collectable coins.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: That Buffalo nickel is a 64+. The strike is no worse than some of the PCGS MS65's that I've seen for the date and the color is very nice. The luster may be holding the coin back a bit, but no way should it be a 64 in my opinion.
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this is in no way intended to be a rant about the Buffalo, i can live with the assigned grade and had it holdered to fit uniformly with other toned Buffalos as i build the set. i could have chosen any of a number of coins, this was just one i figured some might remember and it's a popular series many could opine on. i'm not stressed or anything, just intrigued with the thought pattern that the CW letter started in me and the simple fact that many of us
one thought i've entertained about changing standards is that as more coins are seen there is a bigger pool to average from. in that sense, grading should change. with the recent flooding of choice coins in higher grades, it's sensible that we might each change our grade opinions as a result. the same should hold true as we each mature as collectors. it seems natural to expect a 20 year hobbyist to grade to a different standard than he/she did after only 5 years.
aside to Murphy-------i think the creme-de-le-creme is to snag a raw coin and get it holdered at a higher grade than bought and many multiples of value!!!
al h.
About the "creme-de-le-creme", I appreciate what you're saying there buddy! Hey, I once found several 2000 Wide AM's in change. I put them up for sale on EBay and advertised them as grading between ms-63 & 67. They sold for an average of $5 on EBay. There was one that was indeed a ms-67 in my opinion only, but maybe also the buyer thought so too! The buyer was so thrilled with the quality that he left feedback saying "love these kinda trades" or something like that. We both made out like bandits! I made 50000% over my original investment. The other guy has a coin with a PCGS value of between $50 and $150. He stands to make between 1000% & 3000% on his investment. I probably shoulda had PCGS grade it for me before putting it up for sale, but what the hey, I like it when everybody is happy.
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"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
While reading your thread, random thoughts percolated to my fingertips and now flow into this reply.
Grading has been, is and always will be subjective as long as humans collect coins. What is appealing to one person will not always appeal to another. This reality is not limited to coin collecting (i.e. differing tastes in music - one person likes classical, another likes jazz, another likes country, another likes rock and roll, no one can say that one type is better than the other, though within a specific type of music you have great pieces and lousy pieces).
I am interested in a few specific areas of the hobby (i.e. 1950-1970 Cameos) and have devoted a lot of time and effort learning these specific areas and viewing multiple examples of these coins. However, I do not have a lot of experience in viewing and comparing slabbed examples of these coins since to date I have chosen to collect raw specimens. In other areas I am little better than ignorant. I can look at 10 1962 Proof Franklins and assign grades to them that would put them in order from best to worst (or vice versa) and most people would probably agree with my assessment of best to worst (though they might not agree with the specific grade and designation I give to each coin [as an example I showed an early proof set to a dealer I know who looked at same and wrote down his grade for each coin, my grades tracked his exactly except that my grades were each one point higher than his for each coin]). My grades would probably not match up with those that would be assigned by PCGS or NGC, however I expect that these services' grades would also follow my assessment of best to worst.
For those persons (i.e. Russ with his silver Kennedies) that focus narrowly on a specific area of the hobby and who submit to TPG's, I have no doubt that they can assign grades with much better accuracy than persons such as me; and that they can say, with legitimacy, that a particular service that they patronize has loosened, tightened or remained the same in its grading standards and consistency.
For areas that I am not familiar with, my ability to grade is not very good and my opinion on the grade of a particular coin, plus $1.00 will buy you a cup of Joe. Does that mean I can not spot a nice coin. No. Does that mean that my opinion should not be on equal footing with others. No.
After rambling here for twenty minutes, my final thought is that knowledge is the key. Delving into a specific area and learning all there is about it gives you an advantage over those who lack such knowledge. One with such knowledge will be able to make better decisions, including grading decisions, and hopefully have more success and obtain more enjoyment out of the hobby. However, even if one does have such knowledge, no one can say that such a person's "opinion" (and an "opinion" is all that it could ever be) about a specific coin has more validity than the "opinion" of another person or another hundred persons on the same coin. To one person the coin may be the absolute best the world has to offer (for any one of limitless reasons) and to another it may be nothing more than pocket change (again for any one of limitess reasons).
Me thinks I drone on too much, so I will close.