THIS is MS65?????

sliderider

Ebay listing

I have XF Peace dollars with more detail than this.

itsnotjustme

Is yours a 1921 high relief? These are notorious for weak strikes, such as the obverse hair detail.

stman

<< <i>I have XF Peace dollars with more detail than this. >>



Please show us all your 1921 Peace Dollars in XF with more detail than the one you posted.

eagle7

Sliderider, you must be a teenager. How old are you? You joined in aug of 04 and already have 2100 posts. You need to get a life. At the least you need to get the vam book and learn about Morgan and Peace silver dollars.

kieferscoins

Yes that is MS-65.

Cameron Kiefer

nwcs

Looks like a good coin to me.

Trooper

Interesting question about the grade. Not being to familiar with the strike on these here's my 1921 PCGS au58 coin for example. The hair next to the cheek looks better on my coin to me.

Tom

rlawsha

I don't think it deserves to be in an MS65 holder because of all that cheek chatter

mgoodm3

The AU58 has a better strike and looks nicer overall than the 65.

BigE

Come on Pinnacle, lets see some no reserve auctions, especially on commems----------------BigE

itsnotjustme

Trooper,
Don't forget strength of the strike and wear are two different things. So even though yours has more hair detail (better strike), PCGS is saying it is worn and the other is not.

lloydmincy

Trooper:

Not a bad try, but the 65 based on my experience, is a much better condition coin than yours, based on pictures. I have seen a ms67 1921, which I thought was absolutely beautiful, (with a blue mark on the eye, which made me run away) but with the top part of the hair (the middle) looked as if the press completly missed the strike!!! Was very weak in the middle obv/rev, but you could tell, it was sitting in someones cabinet for 80 years. Strike vs. Wear on the 1921 High relief IS A BIG DEAL.

lloydmincy

Sliderider:

You need to do your homework. On this subject and a lot of your other ones.

Steve27

Looks like a weak strike to me, and thus the MS65 grade seems quite generous:




Looks a little better than my AU coin:

prooflike

I think mark-wise it is a 66 and strike wise really soft, and knock it a point for the strike for a 65.

Here is my 62

Cam40

Looks like a nice crackout candidate there Prooflike.

Baley

here's another MS62-63, typical strike for the year

lloydmincy

Prooflike:

Re-submit yours!!! And another thing, what coin is that as your Icon??? I have seen it before....is it real???

rkfish

Bailey,

You need to call that beauty a 63-64 imo......

GoYankees

Prooflike, I like that reverse. It has nice luster.

Merc

I am going to go against many of the opinions posted. The coin offered on ebay is a very low end 65 and a possible 64 on a bad day. The luster seems nice and it is free from major distracting marks in the face and neck. The strike is rather weak, even for a 1921. Plus is has several tan toning spots across the face which hurts eye appeal.

I have 2 1921 Peace dollars in NGC 64 holders. One has a weak strike like this one. The high relief and low strike pressure made full strikes scarce. The other has a strong strike with most of the hairlines present. The eagle's lower wing feathers are complete. What keeps it from a higher grade is a contact mark on the neck. 1921 Peace dollars with complete or near complete strikes should go for a bit more.

nwcs

Of course, this coin can look VERY different in hand.

sliderider

You know something, I don't care what the restof you say. Any coin that is not fully struck should not even be considered for high grades. I understand that weak strikes are common for Peace dollars and for this year in particular, but it seems that with this coin the grading serfvices grade not on actual condition, but to keep a good balance of grades available. A lot of other coins get points knocked off for weak strike, so why shouldn't these?? If it means there are no high end examples then so be it. That's the way it should be. Nobody should spend that kind of money for a coin and have it look like crap.

Shamika

<< <i> You know something, I don't care what the restof you say. Any coin that is not fully struck should not even be considered for high grades. >>


I must admit I can't fault sliderider for this comment. I have similar issues with some of the high grades I've seen in the Buffalo nickel series.

MS-65 should be a full strike by default.

kieferscoins

Cameron Kiefer

islemangu

I agree more with rlawsha, the chatter on the cheek bothers me more.
Here is my NGC 65 for comparison


back on a past Merc thread someone mentioned pcgs doesn't compute strike quality into the grade. I believe it now after seeing this coin. When strike quality starts effecting overall eye appeal it would seem it should compute

sliderider

Islemangu,

Your 65 looks far and away better than the 65 in the link. Any coin that has a flat spot the size of a dime in the middle of the obverse where detail should be, is not PQ and does not deserve to be holdered as such. It is immediately noticable and distracting. If this were a 21 Morgan or an Ike with 20% of the detail missing from the obverse devices, you'd all be with me in saying how ugly it was and how it deserves to be downgraded. I sometimes think the only reason coins like this get such high grades, is so that the rich collectors don't feel like morons when they get stuck having to put a MS62 piece in an otherwise 65/66 set, because there are no truly 65/66 pieces available, so they justify the higher grades by saying the weak strike somehow doesn't count on these because they are the rule rather than the exception. It only serves to make the truly PQ coins less valuable because now there are more coins in those grades than there should be.

islemangu

I must add for being accurate here...my coin's image is overexposed so the slight chatter is harder to see

stman

<< <i>I sometimes think the only reason coins like this get such high grades, is so that the rich collectors don't feel like morons when they get stuck having to put a MS62 piece in an otherwise 65/66 set, >>



I always find it amazing that some will call certain collectors "Rich." Just because they might own a nice coin or a higher graded coin
than some can afford. Does this always mean the person is rich? I don't think so.

Does this perhaps mean some folks that make these statements are zealous and don't want to go out and work hard to achieve what they want????????

islemangu

check out the strike on this one I used to own

Shamika

islemangu,

Now THAT'S a monster strike!

sliderider

<< <i>

<< <i>I sometimes think the only reason coins like this get such high grades, is so that the rich collectors don't feel like morons when they get stuck having to put a MS62 piece in an otherwise 65/66 set, >>



I always find it amazing that some will call certain collectors "Rich." Just because they might own a nice coin or a higher graded coin
than some can afford. Does this always mean the person is rich? I don't think so.

Does this perhaps mean some folks that make these statements are zealous and don't want to go out and work hard to achieve what they want???????? >>




I take offense at this. I could put down the minimum bid on the coin in question and pay for it if the auction ended right now. I moght not be able to defend that bid for very long if someone more determined than I am wanted to fight me for it, but I don't see the coin here as being worth the battle.

As for not working, you have a lot of f*ing nerve telling me that I don't work. I probably have worked harder in my life than any three people on this board. I don't work 9-5, I work more like 6AM-9PM most of the time, and doing jobs that most of you would never even consider doing, so don't make any comments concerning my desire or ability to work hard for what I want.

stman

Sorry, I never meant to imply you didn't work. I just think you speak without thinking sometimes. In another thread you
made it sound like MBcoin was up to something. Text
When he is a well respected seller and has been for years. You were assuming a scam on his part.
When in reality it seems YOU are the one that plays games on ebay.



<< <i>I take offense at this. I could put down the minimum bid on the coin in question >>



Yes, we all know you could put the bid down. Because as pointed out in the thread I linked you have 37 RETRACTED Bids in the last 6 months.
So who is doing the scamming? And BTW, this adds quite a bit of credibility to all your statements.

sliderider

You don't know the situation surrounding the bid retractions so shut the hell up. For your information I am sitting here with a bandaged thumb dangling by a thread due to a machinery accident and I have no health insurance. My boss kindly offered to pick up most of the expenses, but there are still some bills that I will have to pay. I have since replaced many of the bids that I retracted and paid for some of the items already. So at least have the decency to ask for an explanation in private before running your mouth in public abouth things that you know nothing about.

eagle7

You cannot grade a coin from a digital photograph. To sliderider. I am sorry for your accident and wish you a speedy recovery. But I still think you would be wise to buy you a vam book and learn why a 1921 peace dollar can have a strike like that and still be in the grade of 65 due to other factors, such as surfaces and luster. What is this really about? Do you have something against Pinnacle or PCGS? What is your beef?

sliderider

I have nothing against anyone, I just don't think that a coin with so much detail missing should be high grade. One other thing before I end my participation in this insane thread. I have seen other threads where many of you have said that it is for the more knowledgable in this hobby to educate the less knowing, yet all I see here in this thread is a bunch of elitist snobbery. A few of you have tried to point out my error in thinking to me, but most of you have done nothing but jump down my throat and made no effort to help me to see how I might be wrong in this matter. Some of you have even resorted to personal attacks against my character without giving me a chance to explain my situation first. I guess deep down most of you really are like the miserly old skinflint in the coin shop waiting for a little old lady to come in for a chance to rip her because you know more than she does.

kieferscoins

<< <i>I guess deep down most of you really are like the miserly old skinflint in the coin shop waiting for a little old lady to come in for a chance to rip her because you know more than she does. >>



Now you are making assumptions.

Cameron Kiefer

JrGMan2004

I think it's just that the TPGs really don't care about a weak strike, and that it is not really a huge factor. A really weak strike will certainly not keep a coin from 65 or even 66 at PCGS... in fact, I have a Merc that has an extremely weak strike. No Hair detail at all, rods in the fasces melding together, etc. etc. Extremely weak... yet it is graded MS66 by PCGS.