1933 $10 goes for 10 cents on the dollar!
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
Compared to the 1933 $20! 
The finest known example of the 1933 $10 was purchased by Legend tonight for $625,000 plus the 15% buyer's fee. A screaming bargain compared to its more expensive cousin?
Looks like the market is still strong for great coins.
1933 $10
The finest known example of the 1933 $10 was purchased by Legend tonight for $625,000 plus the 15% buyer's fee. A screaming bargain compared to its more expensive cousin?
Looks like the market is still strong for great coins.
1933 $10
0
Comments
HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS IS THE FINEST EXAMPLE OF A 1933 $10 INDIAN ? IT MAY BE THE HIGHEST GRADED BUT IT IS CERTAINLY NOT THE FINEST KNOWN.I WILL BET MY LEFT NUT ON THIS ONE ..
STEWART
Don't know much about gold - I'm the first to admit that. Just know what I read in the auction description:
No coin has been assigned a higher grade by either service, and no known unincapsulated example equals or exceeds the present offering, whose appearance offers an historic opportunity for today's collectors.
Russ, NCNE
"Move your mouse over the image to see the details."
Stunning coin!!!
Wow! I was not even aware that there were 1933 $10 coins available. That's cool. What's the estimated population of 1933 Eagles?
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Truthfully, I had my eyes on that one for a long time. But not in my price range! You and I will just have to settle for the 1932's!
They are very affordable but will always remain so!
The population census shows 6 graded PCGS MS65 with none finer and this NGC example as a MS66 hence Stack's definition of "finest known".
There are many scarcer dates in the $10 Indian series at this grade level but none that are more popular.
$10 Indian Gold Registry Set
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
But why is it in an NGC holder...I'm cyniccal....if it were a TRUE 66 certainly it would be in a PGCS holder. It's no coincidence that the highest graded Modern coins are in NGC holders for the extra grade, IMO. I love Modern Gold, but I don't think it was a bargain at any stretch. Get it crossed and I'm a little more interested...but what if a few other 65's "turn" into 66's? That makes it a $500K coin??
Opinion only....
<< <i>true - not sure why some always questions dealer fees and all - as if everyone should be getting stuff for free and all - Don't you guys work too? I do and I charge for my services accordingly. I just don't get all the one liners often seen in similar threads. >>
I'm not sure why some assume that half or more of thier profits in a coin should automatically be lost to a company that printed a fancy catalog. I agree that there was probably some share with the seller. Otherwise I'd find it hard to believe that with coins of this nature that word of its availability would not spread fast to those who collect this type of item. As far as dealers earning thier fees, that is not an issue here. A huge fee for printing a catalog and slamming a hammer is. I don't know what business you're in but if you don't question fees and look for the best options to market product you won't be in business long. Blindly paying a going rate because" that's the way it is" will allow it to continue "the way it is" and all the cream in the deal will continue to get sucked off the top by the auction house. Travers wrote, Auctions are a good deal.........for the auction company.
Other than that, Nice coin, nice return on 40 bucks, but they could also have bought 80 rolls of 31-S Lincolns, 80 rolls of Buff nickles? Hmmm
<< <i>I think that $715K is a fair price for that coin as a NGC MS66. I would suspect that the coin was one of the PCGS graded MS65's. I have photos of three of the PCGS MS65's including the one that is in my set. It is very probable that the $10 1933 Indian may become even more popular as it is included in the 100 Greatest U.S. Coin book and has that intrigue of the date behind it.
The population census shows 6 graded PCGS MS65 with none finer and this NGC example as a MS66 hence Stack's definition of "finest known".
There are many scarcer dates in the $10 Indian series at this grade level but none that are more popular.
$10 Indian Gold Registry Set >>
Congrats "jpkinla" on your # 1 finest set of $10 Indians!
My $10 1933 PCGS MS65 Obverse
My $10 1933 PCGS MS65 Reverse
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
Fabulous. Frankly, I like yours better.
Russ, NCNE
I respect HIS opinion as he won the PCGS grading contest and certainly I am happy just owning something like this. My wife thought I was nuts buying it! When I am dead and buried and she spends the money someday or the kids do, they won't think I was so nuts!
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
You broke Rule #1...NEVER LET YOUR WIFE KNOW WHAT YOU PUT INTO COINS!!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
First, the images are blowups. The marks, etc., that you see are magnified. I believe that the Stack's pic is bigger than Kutasi's.
Second, you can really discern luster from a pic. The luster is a key component to these coin's grade. It appears that Stack's pic is a scan, and that Kutasi's pic is from a digital camera.
Third, the quality of the imaging makes a big difference. No slam on Stack's, but has anyone checked out their image quality lately? It is much easier for an individual to spend copious time on a single coin than it is for a large company who have many coins to image. Also, Stack's was creating a pic for the cover of a catalog. I submit that the pic submitted by Kutasi would be inappropriate for one of their auction catalog covers.
As for the issue of which of these two coins is better... I don't know, but I would rely heavily on the impartial opinions of the industry experts.
Finally - no disrespect to Kutasi, but I highly doubt that Halperin would pass on the opportunity to upgrade his coin before selling it. How many people do you know willingly leaves money on the table?!?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Own your coins and quit bickering. This posturing is ridiculous.
PEACE....I think the OPEN FORUM is safer!!
maybe he felt it would make NO DIFFERENCE in the price he got? And maybe, more likely it is excatly what it is a true MS-65 in every respect period! case closed. I concur it is, and in MHO it looks better than Stack's example - and is corrcetly graded by PCGS.
KUTASI's example actually ROCKS - he gets my YOU SUCK for today -
Laura - how about you take scan of it and post what it really looks like - seems like some of us me included are being hard on you b/c the picture truly is not showing what this piece actually is. maybe that'll shut some of us up
In addition I could care less if 10 dealers looked it over (let alone 4) - no one quesytioned the greatness of the coin being sold. I personally stated it does NOT BELONG in a 66 holder period
if it were a TRUE 66 certainly it would be in a PGCS holder.
absolytely correct Jay - that FACT seems to be bugging more than a few here
Marc
Tap, tap TAP!
WHACK!
Ooops!
No NOT the 1933!!!!!!!!!!
Marcmoish,
Have you ever seen BOTH of these coins up close? Have you seen even one of these? If not, then I respectfully suggest that you desist from speaking so definitively and authoritatively. Your knowledge, based off digital pics, are insubstantial because there is too much unreliability with pictures.
They say that a picture is worth a thousand words. But, in this context, those thousand words must be treated with circumspection.
Regards,
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Marc
<< <i>But when I'm wronged >>
You believe you have been wronged when somebody expresses the opinion that they like one coin better than another?
Russ, NCNE
No. I think she feels wronged because she wasn't imbued with adequate communication skills...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i> just got off the phone with John Albanese (who has handled 5 of them). He offered me a $25,000.00 profit to flip it today. >>
The auction was yesterday??? Did he not know it was being sold or was he too busy to call in and bid???
<< <i>The auction was yesterday??? Did he not know it was being sold or was he too busy to call in and bid??? >>
Perhaps he figured that another strong bidder in the auction would have increased the hammer by more than $25,000.
You said you believed this to be the Kruthoffer coin. If that is so, I have to refer to the June 2000 Long Beach Heritage auction:
Lot: 7627
Sale: 230 Indian Eagles:
1933 $10
Sold For: $207,000.00
Ended: June 8, 2000 at 10:00 PM CDT
1933 $10 MS 65 PCGS. In an effort to help reverse the tide of the Depression, Franklin Roosevelt issued Presidential Order 6260 in March 1933 halting the release of gold coins from the Mint. Although the executive order largely failed in its original task, it did create several noteworthy rarities in the 20th century gold series. Most notable among these are the 1933 eagle and the 1933 double eagle. While the latter issue is not believed to have been released before the president's declaration and, as such, is prohibitively rare, 1933 Indian eagles are obtainable, albeit very scarce, and always realize strong prices whenever a survivor appears on the market.
Following its sizeable mintage of 4,463,000 pieces in 1932, the Philadelphia Mint opened 1933 with a respectable delivery of 312,500 eagles in January and February. A few of these coins, perhaps 30-40 pieces, were legally released through regular channels at this time. The aforementioned presidential order of March not only halted gold coin production, but prompted the Philadelphia Mint to melt all remaining 1933 eagles. Fewer than 30 survivors came to light in an east coast hoard circa 1952. Although a few more individual coins have since turned up in French and Swiss banks, the 1933 still retains the honor of being the rarest Indian eagle in all grades.
While all known 1933 eagles are Uncirculated, most specimens display heavily abraded surfaces. In stark contrast, the present example boasts frosty, essentially mark-free features that are indicative of the Gem level. In this regard, the coin is the equal of the specimen that appeared as lot 873 in Eliasberg's United States Gold Coin Collection (Bowers & Ruddy, 10/82). Mottled copper overtones interrupt the otherwise soft, green-gold coloration. The strike is razor sharp throughout and every last feature is readily appreciable. A small diagonal abrasion in the reverse field above the P in PLURIBUS is a useful pedigree marker. A lovely coin whose aesthetic charm is the handmaiden of its legendary rarity.
Ex: Breen 2 Sale (Pine Tree, 1975), lot 328, where it realized $46,000; Stanley Kesselman; Robert E. Kruthoffer, Jr. Collection (Paramount, 9/81), lot 65, where it realized $79,000.
From the Collection of an East Coast Family.
I was being cynical when I commented on the NGC/PCGS comparison regarding grading. Then I found this. I still make NO judgement about EITHER coin, but I couldn't ignore this as it IS quite relevant. You KNOW that in this instance I am being TOTALLY OBJECTIVE.
JB
I will add this. In his book of 1987, David Akers names 4 or 5 1933's that he calls GEMS but not MS67; (that's a MS66 in today's grading system. They went 65-67 then). He states that all are equally nice and it's a matter of choice as to which is the best.
<< <i>Thanks Puff! >>
You're welcome JP.
Since you are relatively new here JP I hope you don't pay alot of attention to the squabling concerning who's coin is best between yours and the one Laura bought......
I think they are both super coins and would love to have either, except that I would crack that damn NGC out of its holder and resubmit to PCGS at any grade!
Just kiddin Laura!
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>100 posts by 7 PM Pacific?
Hey, it's a Friday night. You expected less?
Isn't software great!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
no disrespect to Kutasi, but I highly doubt that Halperin would pass on the opportunity to upgrade his coin before selling it. How many people do you know willingly leaves money on the table?!?
Halperin may be good, and have the odds slightly in his favor over the long run, but any one or group of submissions can beat you down. Unless Heritage has a consignment for a year or more, it may not get the grades it thinks it can achieve. I went through the same thing with a consignment to Heritage and we didn't get the grade we wanted prior to the auction. The coin stayed in an NGC holder and still brought close to the next grade.
I had one occasion where Laura was bidding on a better date seated half in PCGS MS65 at a major auction. It was going way too cheap imo and I didn't even put a bid in. No one seemed to care. I took my chances that I could purchase if from Legend before the show was over. I know one of us would have paid another 10-20% if we locked heads over it. Legend made $500 for a few minutes work and I got the coin at least $500 cheaper than if I had bid. There are definitely times when backing off helps. On the flip side, they could have offered it for more and I would have missed out.
Coins bring less than they should quite often. If they didn't, you wouldn't see any dealers at auctions.
roadrunner
So let's deal with the facts and not keep huffing and puffing.
The fact that the coin in question realized $46,000 in 1975 and $79,000 in 1981 is very telling of the quality of the coin.
The fact that it realized over $700,000 last night reaffirms its quality.
from Heritage June 2004 Long Beach.
I suspect that most pictures aren't. However, I'm inclined to say that Heritage tends to show coins in the worst possible light whereas a Registry photo would tend show it in the best possible light. For collectors to state 'I'd rather have this coin over that coin' off photos done by two different persons is a mistake.
<< <i>Many of the remarks to threads I'm invloved with are the exact reasons why many real dealers don't post here. They don't want to hear gossip, opinions that are incorrect, or challanges to their expertise. >>
WHO CARES!!!!
I promised myself I would start being nice on these forums. But you just make me boil, and laugh at the same time. You just don't get it. Some people don't have enough time to hang out at an auction, to buy the big rarities - so they hire someone to do it for them. They make more money with their time as opposed to following the auctions, or they pay someone else to get the coins for them (like Legend), and are traveling or spending time with their family.
You are talking about a coin that sold for $700K, and you really think the bidders and the buyers were worried about what everyone else was making on it, or better yet, mad they didn't save 5 or 10% by going a different route??? What are you going to say next - that the buyer could of saved $700,000 by not purchasing it????
Are you just jealous? I have to share something with you.
I have paid over $200,000 for three coins in the past two years. I could of purchased them four years ago for less than half what I paid for them. And you know what?
The dealer/private hand/auctions I got them from made Over $100,000 from me, just by a simple catalog with the picture, or even just a 10 minute phone call to let me know (one) was available.
DO you know what else???
Looking back at my notes, I would of paid together, $170,000 more for them. I also had offers for two of them for equal or more, immediately. The third, no offers, because no one knows I own (it) .
So, coynclecter, did I get jipped for not getting a better deal??? I think I saved $170,000...
And if it were PR63 Cameo no one would say a thing. Mmmmm - Amon Carter!