Coin Cleaning Book...secret book coin dealers dont want you to know about

ScarsdaleCoin · October 13, 2004 4:11AM

If any one is interested in coin cleaning....

link a dink...or should I write scrub a dub dub

kieferscoins · October 13, 2004 4:12AM

You are a dealer and are telling the public? You shall be banished!

Cameron Kiefer

ScarsdaleCoin · October 13, 2004 4:16AM

The truth shall set you free....LOL

earlwbollinger · October 13, 2004 4:42AM

Humm... that reminds me, I need to check on my black splotched FE cent and see how it's been doing. It's been soaking in olive oil for many months now.

itsnotjustme · October 13, 2004 4:45AM

Errrrrr... the poster is the auction owner!

coynclecter · October 13, 2004 4:47AM

some clown, why bother to bid till it gets high

<< Please do not think you can snipe it at the end for a penny because I might just end my auctions >>

Then why not just set a reserve or a higher start price?

ScarsdaleCoin · October 13, 2004 5:18AM

yes poster is auction owner...last time I ran one of these books everyone asked me why I didnt post it and let people know....damm if you do damm if you dont

re sniping...because its just not fair.....so sometimes I end the auction early...that way you cant snipe it....

TWQG · October 13, 2004 5:51AM

Very poor form posting this here. That plus this statement

<< so sometimes I end the auction early...that way you cant snipe it.... >>

will cause me to avoid your auctions in the future. Your verbose fine print section is probably costing you bids as well.

Russ · October 13, 2004 6:04AM

<< Please do not think you can snipe it at the end for a penny because I might just end my auctions >>

<< AGAIN MY AUCTIONS ARE THE REAL DEAL...no reserve and starts just 1 cent.. >>

Doesn't sound like the "real" deal to me.

Russ, NCNE

ms70 · October 13, 2004 6:23AM

Ending auctions early is not the "real deal".

MadMarty · October 13, 2004 6:24AM

I thought the new E-Bay rules didn't let you end auctions early?

Newmismatist · October 13, 2004 6:43AM

<< Humm... that reminds me, I need to check on my black splotched FE cent and see how it's been doing. It's been soaking in olive oil for many months now. >>

Years ago I went to a ANA seminar that dealt with grading (and cleaning) coins - One of the speakers talked about the various methods of cleaning copper coins (that included CN coins also) - Mentioned that he was experimenting with using olive oil, but didn't give the results - After the seminar, I went and asked him about the Olive Oil - he said - he wasn't sure it was working, but maybe he neededto leave it soaking longer - I asked him how long it had been soaking - he said "only about 3 years - maybe I need to give it another year or 2"

You may be in for a long wait on the Olive Oil!

lathmach · October 13, 2004 6:49AM

<< Humm... that reminds me, I need to check on my black splotched FE cent and see how it's been doing. It's been soaking in olive oil for many months now. >>

You've wasted months on that? You could have boiled it 5 minutes in salt water and it woulda been like new. You coulda sold it three times over all ready.
Buy Jon's book, man. Learn the tricks.

Ray

melikecoins · October 13, 2004 7:01AM

Here's one for sale

11. FRANK, C.: Coin Preservation Handbook. Coingard Industries, 1964. 135 pages, blue cloth, gilt, near as-new. [.7#] (20) . . . $30

Glen

mr1931S · October 13, 2004 7:01AM

Very well-written, technical book by a knowledgeable person. Contains a lot of good information. As Lerner says in his auction, this book is rare.

magikbilly · October 13, 2004 7:47AM

<< 

<< Please do not think you can snipe it at the end for a penny because I might just end my auctions >>

<< AGAIN MY AUCTIONS ARE THE REAL DEAL...no reserve and starts just 1 cent.. >>

Doesn't sound like the "real" deal to me.

Russ, NCNE >>

There's more;

"So someone always really wins…. Most of my auctions start at only 1 cent........." & "Some people think I might be insane but I know that the fair price always comes out in the wash" (how when you end auctions early I don''t know..)

in that really tiny fine print is states no auctions that start for 1 penny are returnable, and nothing graded by is PCGS, ANACS, NGC etc., and whatever else that is returnable has to be returned in 3 days with 15% restock fee. No, not the "real deal" to me either. What is really funny is the NGC MS65 RD Lincoln 1c being sold on the merit of being RD - no date is mentioned - only rhe "rarity" of an NGC RD Lincoln.

Billy

nwcs · October 13, 2004 8:31AM

Awesome. I'm going to start scrubbing down my bust halves and morgans as soon as I win the auction.

wayneherndon · October 13, 2004 9:53AM

I think what Scarsdale is saying is that he might end it early and sell to the CURRENT high bidder. That would be permitted under the new rules. Cancelling all the bids before ending the auction is not permitted.

WH

tsacch · October 13, 2004 10:17AM

Is this book in the lending library of Anacs or elsewhere?????

TUMUSS · October 13, 2004 10:19AM

Ebays new policy of ending auctions early is the same as cancelling a bid on an item...12 hours before the end of the auction.

Aethelred · October 13, 2004 10:36AM

<< re sniping...because its just not fair.....so sometimes I end the auction early...that way you cant snipe it.... >>

What is not fair about sniping? Anyone who wants the item can snipe it, if some people are too lazy or too slow to snipe with success that does not make it unfair in my opinion. Good luck with your auction!

Neptune · October 13, 2004 10:43AM

ending auctions early - starting at one cent? why bother. Sniping is part of the game.

braddick · October 13, 2004 10:49AM

Probably offers cross-over information and it's a lot cheaper

braddick · October 13, 2004 10:56AM

Disregard my suggestion above.
This one's even cheaper than that

Myqqy · October 13, 2004 11:10AM

I would have guessed that coin doctoring would have come a long way in the past 40 years......... and I don't see what's not fair about sniping- it's a bid during the allotted time for bids......

ScarsdaleCoin · October 13, 2004 11:22AM

Come on guys....tell me what you really think.....I love it.......

sliderider · October 13, 2004 11:29AM

The book is dated 1964, a time when cleaning and altering coins to make them look better was still common and accepted. I doubt that very much in that book is still considered acceptable anymore. I'd buy it just to bury it in a box in my attic to keep it out of the hands of someone dishonest.

BigE · October 13, 2004 1:13PM

Is there a chapter on lasering proof gold in there?

-----------------BigE

itsnotjustme · October 13, 2004 2:17PM

Oops... in the really fine print, the return exception must be only for his items sold on ebay.uk because the exception is for items that start at one PENNY, while this auction starts at one CENT!

Bochiman · October 13, 2004 2:49PM

Still think there should be an emoticon of cheese for all the WhINErs that are still posting

Mikey · October 13, 2004 2:56PM

But it's entertainment.

mr1931S · October 13, 2004 11:40PM

"The book is dated 1964, a time when cleaning and altering coins to make them look better was still common and accepted. I doubt that very much in that book is still considered acceptable anymore. I'd buy it just to bury it in a box in my attic to keep it out of the hands of someone dishonest."

This book is quite scarce and a collectible in its own right, sliderider, notwithstanding your opinions about cleaning coins. Frank gives the reader a lot of information about the factors of coin deterioration irregardless of the reader's "honesty." Mine is a First Edition, unsigned and nearly "new" condition. Not a single spot from the chemical concoctions for cleaning that Frank offers can be found on my copy of this book.

Chlorinated Solvent Emulsion Cleaner

Oleic Acid .67 oz.
Triethanolamine .33 oz.
Trichlorethylene or
Carbon Tetrachloride 8.00 oz.
Ethyl Alcohol 1.00 oz.

Heat the oleic acid and triethanolamine, in separate containers, to about 140 degrees Fahrenheit: add the triethanolamine to the oleic acid, agitating vigorously; cool to 86 degrees Fahrenheit; add the solvents with vigorous agitation.

Chlorinated solvents will remove oils, greases, waxes, soluble soils, and a host of other compounds, much as petroleum solvents do, except with greater speed and thoroughness. They will not remove salts, perspiration, oxidation, tarnish, corrosion products, many chemical dusts and fumes.

earlwbollinger · October 14, 2004 2:52AM

yeah, about the splotched FE soaking in olive oil.
Actually if I don't forget again, I plan to try the "potato" method, where you slip the coin inside a potato for a while
and see what happens. The potato appears to cause a bit of electrylosis to form helping remove corrosion.
I figure it's worth a shot. Remember the old potato powered clocks and things.

ScarsdaleCoin · October 14, 2004 4:41AM

mr1874 understands

as for some of the rest of you

Bear · October 14, 2004 5:17AM

I dont need no stinking book. All I need is my Brillo Pad

and some elbow grease.

DocMortar · October 14, 2004 6:57AM

I am a high school chemistry teacher. I will not use Carbon tetrachloride in my high school chemistry classes. It is extremely dangerous(volatile), toxic and carcinogenic. Great care should be taken in posting recipes as posted above. Students ask me all the time about how to make this or that and I tell them the same thing I am writing here to you. You could be responsible for someone doing great harm to themselves and to others. Carbon tetrachloride is very dangerous to monkey around with. Avoid this substance. I would never advise people to try various mixtures, formulas, concoctions even though I have the knowledge. It just makes good common sense to remain mute in these areas. I urge you to not mess around with chemicals that you do not have skill, knowledge and training to handle. The info below was copied from the following website
http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/carbonte.htm

Carbon tetrachloride is listed in the National Toxicology Program's Fifth Annual Report on Carcinogens as a "substance which may reasonably be anticipated to be carcinogen." Short-term exposure by inhalation or ingestion can cause death. Short and long-term exposure also affects the brain, the liver, and the kidneys, in some cases causing death.

There is some evidence that exposure to carbon tetrachloride causes liver cancer in humans; there is limited evidence that exposure may damage the developing fetus. Repeated contact can cause thickening and cracking of the skin. Effects on the brain are usually quite rapid. The most common effects are dizziness, lightheadedness, nausea and vomiting, which can cause permanent damage to nerve cells. In severe cases, these effects can lead rapidly to stupor, coma, unconsciousness or death. Exposure can make the heart beat irregularly or stop. The chemical may irritate the eyes on contact. When carbon tetrachloride is emitted into the air, it rises to the atmosphere and depletes the ozone layer. Depletion of the ozone layer is believed to increase human exposure to ultraviolet rays, leading to increased skin cancer, eye diseases and disorders, and possible disruption of the immune system. Persons who are moderate to heavy drinkers are at greatly increased risk of liver and/or kidney injury following ingestion or inhalation of carbon tetrachloride. Substantial exposures to alcohols and ketones which increase the toxicity of carbon tetrachloride may occur in occupational settings, or in certain instances in the use of household products containing these chemicals.

Trichloroethylene(TCE) has the same bad health effects as Carbon tetrachloride

How can trichloroethylene affect my health?
Breathing small amounts may cause headaches, lung irritation, dizziness, poor coordination, and difficulty concentrating.

Breathing large amounts of trichloroethylene may cause impaired heart function, unconsciousness, and death. Breathing it for long periods may cause nerve, kidney, and liver damage.

Drinking large amounts of trichloroethylene may cause nausea, liver damage, unconsciousness, impaired heart function, or death.

Drinking small amounts of trichloroethylene for long periods may cause liver and kidney damage, impaired immune system function, and impaired fetal development in pregnant women, although the extent of some of these effects is not yet clear.

Skin contact with trichloroethylene for short periods may cause skin rashes.

How likely is trichloroethylene to cause cancer?
Some studies with mice and rats have suggested that high levels of trichloroethylene may cause liver, kidney, or lung cancer. Some studies of people exposed over long periods to high levels of trichloroethylene in drinking water or in workplace air have found evidence of increased cancer. Although, there are some concerns about the studies of people who were exposed to trichloroethylene, some of the effects found in people were similar to effects in animals.

In its 9th Report on Carcinogens, the National Toxicology Program (NTP) determined that trichloroethylene is “reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen.” The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has determined that trichloroethylene is “probably carcinogenic to humans.”

I would urge you to not use these substances

ScarsdaleCoin · October 14, 2004 7:58AM

I would advise people to stay away from H2O Water....yes plan water is very bad....I looked at a pipe and saw that the water had created awful RUST this rust completely destroyed the pipe....very bad...

fishcooker · October 14, 2004 8:02AM

DiHydrogen monoxide has killed more people than all other chemicals combined.

WaterSport · October 14, 2004 8:31AM

I like reference books on coin collecting. I buy them if I think they can provide even the smallest amount of Information. Like many of you say, "Buy the book before the coin". I think that statement is true in this case. I have several old references with outdated information. But they fill a void in the history of the hobby and can answer questions as to why coins are found in a certain condition today be it good or bad. So I bought the book online and will use it not to doctor, but to better understand the history of this hobby.

WS

braddick · October 14, 2004 8:46AM

<< DiHydrogen monoxide has killed more people than all other chemicals combined. >>

Yes, but more people annually drown in water vs drowning in DiHydrogen monoxide.

mr1931S · October 14, 2004 10:09AM

DocMortar thanks for taking the time to point out dangers of exposure in handling some of the chemicals that have been used in mixtures for coin cleaning.

I wouldn't recommend that anyone with little or no experience in handling/using toxic substances buy the various chemicals and concoct the Chlorinated Solvent Emulsion cleaner either.

BigE · October 14, 2004 12:33PM

Who cares if you die or not, as long as you get an upgrade

----------------------------------BigE

mr1931S · October 14, 2004 1:55PM

As a further note, Frank does advise on working safely with solvents:

"Since organic solvents are extremely effective in coin cleaning processes, all collectors should be fully aware of the potential dangers concerning their use. It could be said that all organic solvents are unsafe based upon the fact, that with few exceptions, they are inflammable, explosive, and their vapors, if inhaled, or absorbed through the skin, are asphyxiants, anesthetics, or irritants. In this sense they are all poisonous....the use of proper precautions cannot be overemphasized..."

ANACONDA · October 14, 2004 2:05PM

"The book is dated 1964, a time when cleaning and altering coins to make them look better was still common and accepted. "

I think cleaning and altering coins (altering may be redundant depending on how you define cleaning) is still common and accepted depending on how you clean and alter them.

ANACONDA · October 14, 2004 2:22PM

With regard to the lengthy information supplied by DocMortar, messing with many chemicals and substances in high concentrations (or for long periods of time) can have unanticipated results.

My wife's family is burying her uncle this week. What he did wrong was not wear lung protection equipment while being around various glues. He was a cabinet maker. He was in his mid 50s. He has also been disabled for the past 5 or so years.

I worked a case years ago where some kids got ahold of a good amount of mercury - they still use it in some thermostats. Messed with it in the house. Got in the carpet and down into the foundation. Not good. Not good at all. Had to bulldoze the house and cart it away.

If you want to shuffle and drool, cool. Just don't harm your family over some coins. Send 'em to NCS or use standard cleaning agents.

ANACONDA · October 14, 2004 9:35PM

"I like reference books on coin collecting. I buy them if I think they can provide even the smallest amount of Information. Like many of you say, "Buy the book before the coin". I think that statement is true in this case. I have several old references with outdated information. But they fill a void in the history of the hobby and can answer questions as to why coins are found in a certain condition today be it good or bad. "

I'm with you. A guy who has a serious passion for coins and has virtually no books on coins isn't using his brain....to the detriment of his own enjoyment.

rlawsha · October 14, 2004 9:36PM

When I first read this thread I searched the Internet for another copy of the book. I only found one and I ordered it. I just got a confirmation back from the company.....

------------------------------
Just a note to let you know that your order was received. I've processed it and will get the book on it's way to you. As an aside, I received 5 orders for the Preservation Handbook within the same hour of your order. Since yours came in first, obviously it was the one that was of priority. But now I have 4 angry coin guys on my hands since all of the other copies have dashed off of the market! The early bird apparently DOES get the worm!

www.crazybooklady.com
------------------------------

WaterSport · October 14, 2004 9:54PM

Here is 5 more copies for sale if anyone is interested:

Bookfinder.com

rlawsha · October 14, 2004 10:03PM

The one from Alibris says ZERO available and I know that the two listsing from Copano Bay Books are gone. I am not sure about the other two vendors. Abebooks and the BookCeller may have one each. Better jump on it!

ScarsdaleCoin · October 15, 2004 2:02AM

You guys are funny...no one thinks it worth anything ...yet everyone is running to buy a few copies on the internet...meantime....maybe you should just bid on mine....

mr1931S · October 15, 2004 9:19PM

Anyone here know how long it takes for a coin exposed to PVC, found in "soft" flips, to actually show up on a coin?
Could a coin that's been in a soft flip for say, 60 days only, eventually show signs of being contaminated by PVC even though after 60 days it is housed in an inert holder?

Coin Cleaning Book...secret book coin dealers dont want you to know about

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