GREATEST SAINT SET OF ALL TIME REVEALED!!!

saintguru · October 13, 2004 3:23AM

The Dr. Steven Duckor Saint Gaudens set has been retired (not SOLD!!) and is opened for viewing. What a historic irreplaceable set. I applaud, Dr. SD, both as my mentor, and as a TRUE AFFICIONADO and DEDICATED COLLECTOR of the finest coins!!

Take a look at this set...it's got the footsteps of all the best Saint collections of the century!!

THE BEST SET!!

Thanks Steve!!

dbldie55 · October 13, 2004 3:55AM

How difficult is the '29? This would be one set that would be worth the travel to see displayed at a show.

saintguru · October 13, 2004 4:15AM

The 1929 in ms65 is MUCH MUCH scarcer than any book or guide would indicate. In the last two years there have been quite a few more 31-32's than 29's. In fact I have only seen ONE PCGS 65 in that time..and I bought it. (Heritage auction archives shows NONE in PCGS for 10 years!!) Either the POPs are off or they are well kept! SD had one but sold it a number of years back when an irresistable offer came along. He thought it would be easily replaced, but things change.

I'm sure there will be one in the set in the future.

It's such a significant date in a "symbolic" way for the series. The culmination of the exciting first 30 years of the 20th century, the PEAK of excess, and the CRASH that began a decade of depression...all captured by a grand coin with the date 1929 !! Imagine what it took to hold a mint-state 1929 $20 coin with all the financial crisis' following. I would only imagine that they had to be in the hands of some pretty well-off collectors.

earlwbollinger · October 13, 2004 4:55AM

Wow, one heck of a fabulous set there.
He even has a 1927-D! I am surprised he wasn't able to get a 1929 to complete the set.

Datentype · October 13, 2004 4:58AM

Now that is a set. Even nicer than the clad we talked about. No hard feelings. Keep "playing ball" with us and please don't take anything too seriously. this stuff is fun and you look like you're having more fun than many of us

saintguru · October 13, 2004 5:08AM

Don't worry, Be happy"

All is in the name of intelligent discussion, enthusiasm and fun. And a little needling once in a while.

I am I, Rastafar-I.

DennisH · October 13, 2004 5:33AM

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I just don't know what else to say.

RBinTex · October 13, 2004 5:48AM

27 coins not top pop & 1 missing. What's the big deal?

SethChandler · October 13, 2004 5:57AM

Jay,

Good job, now just convince SD to become a boardmember.

Seth

lloydmincy · October 13, 2004 6:20AM

Saintguru:

Your comment on the 1929 is very true, and moving. I always like to think of the year n which a coin was minted. The 1929 $20 gold during those times, MUST have been extremely hard to hold onto.

saintguru · October 13, 2004 6:34AM

Lloyd...That's what fascinates me with the Saints...how the mintages reflected history...the absence of 1917-1919 coins because of the rise in the price of gold during WW1...the scarcity of the 20-S and 21 because of the great Recession of 1920 caused by the inflationary effects of WW1 on commodity prices...The scarcity of allmost coins in the 20's because they were basically used as payments for trade with European countries ravaged by war who only wanted gold, not paper. The total absence of 1929-1932 coins because the governent was shoring up all the backing for the dollar in light of the run on banks and the exportation of gold by companies and wealthy individuals. It's as if "every coin tells a story", with this large denomination GOLD series. It's unique in that sense. I chose this series because of the history.

"COINS ARE THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE HISTORY OF NATIONS" William H. Woodin Sec. of the Treasury(1932-1934)/Rennaissance Man. How very true!!

ms70 · October 13, 2004 6:40AM

He's got a lot of pop 1's! Nice achievement!!

saintguru · October 13, 2004 8:10AM

What is astounding is the difficulty of some of the top POPs. The 1909-D was the only GEM higher than MS64 known when purchased from the Elaisberg collection for a huge 35K!! A few years later a hoard from El Salvador hit the market, yet not a single coin graded over MS65..and only 5 graded 65. The same is true for the 1908-D No Motto. Needless to say the 1920-S is another VERY significant date, since the Fed released NO coins, but only to collectors who bought them directly from the mint; the coin was grossly overlooked by Stacks in the Eliasberg sale and estimated as MS63...it graded MS66!! This is one of the rarest coins of the 20th century. The 1924-D and 1925-S are virtually non-existent above MS64. What makes these so interesting is that these are 20th CENTURY coins!! They weren't lost, or spent...they were never ISSUED!! Only the few released by the mint avoided the "great melt" after Gold was called in 1933.

SethChandler · October 13, 2004 8:54AM

No doubt about it, one of the greatest sets of coins of all time of ANY series. Right up there with TDN's TD and SD, Stew's Lincolns, Jpkipila's 10 Indians, Prices Barber Halves, Russ's AH Kennedys, etc.

Congrats SD.

Now become a boardmember!

saintguru · October 13, 2004 9:04AM

Seth...I believe his Barber Halves are better than PRICE's...he bought the best of Price and kept going.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · October 13, 2004 9:36AM

Dr. Duckor has been an active coin collector for more than 30 years.
He had and sold the best Buffalo nickel collection with a 1925 s in ms 66.His Walking Liberty half dollar and other collectionsthat he sold were also world class.He also has the best $10 Indian collection.His Barber half collection is remarkable.It will be on view in Long Beach in February.
He is a Gastroenterologist with an active practice.He likes his annonimity and privacy.

Stewart

saintguru · October 13, 2004 9:39AM

Gastroenterologist ???

that's a fancy word for a tuchas doctor!!

tradedollarnut · October 13, 2004 9:41AM

That is a mighty fine set!

I will predict, however, that because it is not 100% complete eventually it will be beat on the Registry - multiple times. Whether that is a hollow victory, I cannot tell as I have never seen the coins. But I suspect they are delicious!

saintguru · October 13, 2004 9:44AM

Bruce.

I'll spot you 2 years and bet you $100!

JB

tradedollarnut · October 13, 2004 9:52AM

Not me, I don't do gold. But it will be beat unless it's completed or upgraded. No doubt in my mind. Too many coins out there, too much grade inflation and some mighty deep pockets currently working on sets....

saintguru · October 13, 2004 9:54AM

Well...that's my bet...that in 2 years it is still number ONE. Taken??

And to revive an old subject, even if someone does get 100% Ithey will never have the QUALITY he has. And that counts, Big Time.

tradedollarnut · October 13, 2004 10:00AM

Never say never!

It doesn't take much to pass by a non complete set...

saintguru · October 13, 2004 10:07AM

So you PASS on my bet??? Mr. card player??

marcmoish · October 13, 2004 12:34PM

that's a fancy word for a tuchas doctor!!

ROFL

btw it's TUCHES with an E

Jay that's one stunning set - can you be far behind ?

Marc

saintguru · October 13, 2004 9:40PM

Marc...FAR, FAR, FAR...the difference in a 1925-S ms64-65 is at least 50K. A 24-D ms64-66 at least 50-75K...and the list goes on and on...I was too busy chasing babes and partying in 1982 to buy Eliasberg's coins!! Those opportunities are gone.

And David Akers deserves a lot of credit. No one, no one, knows Saints like he does. He had the most discerning eye and knew every great coin there was. A good counselor!!

boiler78 · October 13, 2004 10:37PM

TDN- I tend to agree with Jay on this one. I don't see this set being topped unless Dr. Duckor sells. With 7 pop 1/0 and another 18 tied finest coins this set is truly spectacular. When you consider who put this set together and the major gold expert (Akers) who coached him, I would also bet that many of these coins would upgrade upon resubmission making it even tougher to top. The fact that the set is missing the 1929 is not a big factor (there is a PCGS 64 in the current Signature sale).

I am blown away by this set!

This is definitely a set I would pay to see. Lets hope that Dr Duckor displays it in the near future.

tradedollarnut · October 13, 2004 11:06PM

Let me clarify:

I am talking about the Registry only - which often doesn't translate into the real world. And I did make it clear that I was stating it would be passed only if it DID NOT upgrade or complete. And I stand by that statement. The set rating is such that a moderately high grade but complete set will surpass it in set rating points on the Registry. The availability of high grade Saints is such that a determined effort will indeed eclipse the set on the Registry.

I haven't seen the coins, tho I do know the reputation of the owner [and his advisor] and I am quite certain they are spectacular. But basic math doesn't lie. If the set is indeed retired, it will be passed.

boiler78 · October 13, 2004 11:13PM

TDN- Is the set retired? I can't imagine Dr. Duckor retiring the set missing one relatively available coin. That just doesn't make sense to me. I assumed the set was still a work in progress. You are right about the math. If the last hole isn't filled the set will likely be surpassed on the registry.

tradedollarnut · October 13, 2004 11:15PM

Yes, the set is retired. Thus my assertion.

Note that all the Kutasi set needs is a 27-D to rather handily move into first place - because the Duckor set isn't complete. Yes, they are rare and expensive but not so rare that one would be safe in saying that the Duckor set will never be surpassed on the Registry.

It's that completion factor again. By the rules of the Registry, a complete set in moderately high grade will beat an almost complete set in super high grade.

saintguru · October 14, 2004 12:30AM

ONCE AGAIN THE "BOGUS MATH" of THE REGISTRY...NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS.

I can see it now...a set of MS63's comes along, completed and it slides into #1. SD has an GPA of 65.5.

DOES THAT MAKE THE MS63's THE FINEST SET??

dbldie55 · October 14, 2004 12:44AM

You're both right.

tradedollarnut · October 14, 2004 12:45AM

If completeness were not a factor, only value grade and rarity, then the owner of the 1933 Saint would have the finest set of all time!

saintguru · October 14, 2004 12:56AM

Maybe the owner of the 1933 ONLY has that one coin???

then again, maybe not...but that would foul the process. But as a footnote, the 1933, "BY THE RULES", is NOT a component of the Circulation Strike Saints!!!

saintguru · October 14, 2004 6:01AM

OK...let's just put this into perspective...

The Big Picture

Now let's shelve the "SECRET BETTER SETS THAT MIGHT EXIST IN THE FUTURE" talk!

tradedollarnut · October 14, 2004 6:10AM

IMO, of all his spectacular sets, this is the one that is the most amazing and least likely to be surpassed:

Duckor Barber Half Set

It's 6/10 of a point higher than the next best set ever formed and a mere quarter point from perfection. Not only that, but it's in a series with much lower pops of gems.

keoj · October 14, 2004 6:46AM

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with TDN on this one.

I feel that the Duckor Barber Half Set is actually more of an numismatic achievement than the Saint Set. (Again, opinion.) The number of sole top pops held in this set is outstanding and would be VERY difficult to replicate in any series. The Saint Set is outstanding as well but my guess is there are a few other sets out there (not in the Registry) that are probably pretty close. (Just a wild A guess.)

Now that I've offered an opinion, these sets are better than I'll ever hope of achieving. Outstanding.

keoj

saintguru · October 14, 2004 6:51AM

keoj...I'm not surprised since you both use the same analytical tool that I don't subscribe to...NO disrespect intended. We have a philosophical difference and I can live and coexist with that.

jpkinla · October 14, 2004 8:49AM

I must agree with all that the Saint set is nothing short of a miraculous achievement as it took 30 years of diligent searching and clearly Dr. Duckor has built something truly admirable. Some of those coins cannot be found for any price today and will not become available until the day he decides to sell his coins.

I am still tweaking my sets but have only been set building since January of this year.

I would also love to see those coins someday as they must truly be outstanding works of art and beauty.

My $10 Indian Registry Set

keoj · October 14, 2004 11:26AM

Saint:

No disrespect taken. Nope, its not about the tool or analytics in this case. I stand by the assertion that the Barber Half set is "higher" numismatic achievement than the Saint set. I'll shut up now. I'd be interested in knowing which set Dr. Duckor feels is a higher accomplishment? Again, they're both amazing sets.

keoj

saintguru · October 15, 2004 4:13AM

His Barber Set is great...and irrelevant to this thread. When another Saint set eclipses SD's than I'll say Congrats to that person. Until then he has the best, and "phantom sets" don't count. This is the stupidest argument...and frankly, there are a number of them going on right now.

roadrunner · October 16, 2004 11:22AM

I fondled a pair of freshly graded PCGS MS64 1929 Saints about 2 months ago. If the Dr. wants to contact my local coin dealer there might be a way to do a deal or simple trade. After all he has 2 of them! They "live" 25 miles from me. Either would make a nice "hole filler" until a MS65 appears. Based on how PCGS graded these two,
it must be tough to find this date without cuts.

roadrunner

saintguru · October 17, 2004 12:31AM

RR..It is a grossly underrated coin in MS65..there are about 80 MS64's so you are correct that it's hard to find them without cuts. SD won't buy a 64 just to fill the hole...he's been building the set for 30 years, so he isn't in a hurry. One will turn up, like MINE at a 50% premium>!!

NOT!!

He had one but was offered big money years ago and sold it...replacement wasn't as easy as he thought.

tradedollarnut · April 26, 2005 12:22AM

I wonder how current events fit into this conversation?

jpkinla · April 26, 2005 1:00AM

I had completely forgotten about this thread.

My $10 Indian Gold Registry Set

Millertime · April 26, 2005 1:35AM

Pardon my ignorance, I'm fairly new to registry sets. I notice that the '23-D and the '28 have quite a few in higher pops (relative to the others in the set), there's also the '07 High Relief and the '27 that have a handful in higher pops. I was wondering if there's a reason that higher grades for this set haven't been sought out on these few years. Are the prices to upgrade in the stratosphere or what? With so many top pops in the set it appears that money isn't an issue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critisizing this set in any way because it is an awesome set. I was just curious because I've also noticed that a lot of sets have top pops (or near the top) but there's a few that have quite a few graded higher.

Millertime

ellewood · April 26, 2005 3:24AM

Millertime.....I too know nothing about gold.....and I was wondering the same exact thing! Hopefully someone will explain.....

saintguru · April 26, 2005 8:55AM

He didn't feel the need to buy common MS67's just for the hell of it...and the High Relief greater than MS67?? Hell man, you are talking well into six figures...it's just not worth it for what is really not a tough coin to get in most other grades...

oreville · April 26, 2005 9:16AM

It is nice to leave some fun for the "hunt" at the end when completing the set. Whether you choose to "upgrade" or not is irrelevant. It quite possibly shows that the owner of this set is not purely into the registry numbers just for the sake of the numbers themselves.

tradedollarnut · April 26, 2005 9:20AM

It will be interesting to see how the Morse Collection compares.

saintguru · April 26, 2005 8:37PM

ahem.....The Morse Collection will be superior, however it DOES include a number of ex-Duckor coins. Morse bought everything he was shown over a short period of time...and the Heritage ad is a sampler of what is one of the Magnificent "hidden" sets of monumental quality.

It will be very interesting to see the state of the market for this watershed auction.

DeepCoin · April 26, 2005 11:55PM

It will be interesting to see what fresh coins come to light. While on this subject, has it been discovered as to whether one of the closely held Saint collections contains the 33 or did someone who buys one of a kinds buy the coin. I am not so interested as to the owner as I am that it is in a true collectors hands.

GREATEST SAINT SET OF ALL TIME REVEALED!!!

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