Grading question, difficult issue

A761506

How will these be graded? 1 or 2 or would they grade the card and stick a ST qualifier on it? These are some of the ugliest cards, but they're ultra rare and worth quite a bit, so I think even in this shape I'm going to have them slabbed. I have 7 of them and they all have tape residue like these. I'll take opinions on that too please (whether they're even worth grading with the tape). Thanks.

calleocho

1967 venezuelan...those are Fugly cards

i dont see how grading these cards really add to their value.

the small premium you might get barely covers the grading fees , shipping and time it takes.

im not sure if these cards are "ultra rare" as opposed to lack of demand.

regardless when it comes to rare, niche cards ...gradding does not translate always into big premiums.

andrewbabcock

I would just crack them as soon as you get them. You are better of just keeping them raw.

67standup

<< <i>
regardless when it comes to rare, niche cards ...gradding does not translate always into big premiums. >>



So true. Most would rather pay more for a PSA 10 1980s card, than for a Topps proof or test or low grade pre-War issue. Sounds like a bad thing, but not for the collectors who enjoy the less than common issues.

mikeschmidt

they're not worth grading.

Scumbi

Dear gentlemen,

Not only are these cards rare, but finding them without tape residue or paper loss is nearly impossible. This is one of the toughest issues ever. The quality of the paper they were printed on is atrocious. I don't know of a single complete set of Retirados in excellent shape held by any collector. Have a look at the population report on these cards. There's less than fifty graded with plenty of no examples for many of the players. The set contains all HOFers including Ruth, Gehrig, Koufax, Paige, Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Jackie Robinson, Joe Dimaggio, Campanella, Simmons, Traynor, Feller, Ott, Speaker, Doerr, etc... If any of you come across these ugly, worthless cards, notify me. I'll take them off your hands so they don't scare your other beautiful cards. I'll help you finish your super-rare 1975 topps sets if you do. Sometimes it's a good idea to have actual knowledge of what you're talking about before posting your expert opinions.

Regarding the question - Grade the cards if they are free of residue and paper loss. Keep raw if there are major flaws. PSA 5 examples of the superstars are worth about 500 and up. PSA 7 Retirados of Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb are auction items.


Best,

Scumbi

uniship

Scumbi - glad to hear from you again. These boards need some resurrecting, and you may be just what the doctor ordered. I must say the network 54 boards have picked up a lot in recent months, and these boards have slid. imho.

calleocho

Scumbi,

"Sometimes it's a good idea to have actual knowledge of what you're talking about before posting your expert opinions. "

You could really try following your own advice


While these cards are considered rare by comparison to more mainstream american issues, they are not all that rare when it comes to foreign baseball cards. these cards are less than 40 years old after all, 50 graded examples is a lot considering that most people collect these cards in raw form.

there are cuban cards for example that while known to exist, collectors have been unable to even get a scan of the card.

a while ago cuban card collector found some 1924 billikens that were not even catalogued yet. these cards are rare!

Also the asthetics of a baseball card matters when it comes to appeal and popularity. these cards have paper thin stock, horrible colors , horrible pictures and are just plain FUGLY!

if you are so inclined to pay $ 500 bucks for a card that really amounts to a newspaper cut out from 1967 of players that played in the 20's and 30's then you have more money than sense.

yes the set is filled with HOF, thats about it, but the set was made in 1967 meaning none of these HOF were playing at that time... just like 61 fleer. i would much rather have a card that was made during their prime or shortly after.



If you want rare , beautiful cards of a HOF during his prime check out a 1910 Punch TY Cobb. I think ONE is known to exit in the whole world...if they hit the auction block my guess would be 5 figures.

check this picture, it would something like this...







these cards are an original photgraph pasted unto cardboard... usually they are found without the back part. NOW thesecards are impossible to find in ANY grade.

those retirado cards while not totally worthless are disgustinly ugly, modern and cheesy.

it is insane to even suggest that these cards hold a candle to TRUE rare and beautiful cards made outside of the US.

Scumbi

Calleocho,

One man's crap is another cokkroach's dinner. You find me some untaped, unglued, no paper loss Venezuelan Retirados and I'll stuff your pockets with money. How's that? I'd rather hunt down navel lint from Pete Gray then go after the Cuban cards. Those are real beauties too. Wow, what fine designs. At least, the Retirados are possible to attain and 37 year old cards from Venezuela that were all glued into albums seems like a tough enough challenge. I think the Retirados were supposed to be printed on 36 ply linen stock from the vaults of King Ferdinand II of Spain, but there was a mix up at the plant. Third world countries are usually so careful about stuff like that. Also, it's a Topps issue which makes the cards more appealing in my eyes.

Thus, I am putting a bounty on near excellent 1967 Retirados because I am a noveau riche pig with no taste and a Mercedes with gold ornaments and mink carpeting. Seriously, if anyone has any, you can start shopping because real money is on the way.

Nice to be back,

Scumbi

koby

I know nothing about Cuban cards.

I have always thought that the hobby frowned on foreign cards. Canadian World Wide Gum cards sell for a fraction of regular Goudey cards. Those European cards that Alan Hager used to try to hawk are virtually worthless. What makes Cuban cards more valuable?

calleocho

Cuban cards unlike other foreign cards have a couple of things going for them unlike others.

Especially the fact that due to the many HOFers from the negro leagues that appeared on them and on some cases these cards are the only known cards for these players, they also included many regular MLB players which its nice.

The cards themselves are very old and rare, with quite a few of them with less than 5 known specimens, forget condition.

the 3 cards from the above picture sold at auction for over 1000 bucks and they were beat up!

There is also over half a million cuban imigrants living in the US ( not counting their kids)

the cards are cool too!...IMHO they insome cases could be more attractive than say E cards

look at this 1917 card of Tris Speaker (2nd card)

A761506

Comparing the sheer rarity early 1900's Cuban cards with 1960's Topps Venezuelan's is like comparing apples to oranges. Certainly there are more Venezuelans in known existance because they are a Topps issue, and they are only between 36-43 years old. However, the challenge, as Scumbi mentioned, is finding them fully intact, as it was regular practice in South America to glue or tape them into scrap books. PSA has graded a whopping 3 cards as 8's, out of 443 total submissions from every Topps Venezuelan set ever issued. 204 of the 443 cards submitted are graded 4 or less. 33 more of those 443 are either marked Authentic or have qualifiers of lower grades (such as 6ST or 3MK) which means they are only accounted for in the totals. You can get the picture very quickly from looking at the pop. report. I can't think of any other Topps sets from that time period that have similar problems with both lack of quantity and quality.

I appreciate the feedback from the forum. I still have not decided whether or not to have these slabbed. I don't know if grading will add any value today, it's 20-30 years from now that I am thinking about, as I have no intention of liquidating them any time soon. As ugly as they may look, they are unique in many ways and I really like that factor.

By the way, if anyone knows of a Koufax from that set, even in poor shape, I'd be interested.

calleocho

Maybe calling the card Fugly was a little too much.

i am sorry.


Back to original question, if you dont intend to sell them right now ..it might be a good idea to grade them as that will prevent any future damage and the price for grading cards will surely rise in the future ..so you might as well do it now.

Scumbi

A76,

I happen to have the Koufax. It's not in great shape. It's one of my most prized cards since it's a legitimate topps 1967 issue. Also, I have the Gehrig, Jackie Robinson, a Musial, a Berra, a Campanella and about 15 others without any paper loss, tape residue or other defects. 10 of the cards in PSA 5 or better are mine and I have a GAI 6 Dimaggio. I've only seen one Babe Ruth and it was a GAI 7.5 in Mile High's Inventory a few years ago before I began to collect rare issues. I think he was asking about 1000 and it sold about a month later. God, I'd love to have another shot at that one.

I'm always on the lookout for these cards. It's one of my favorite sets too. If I should come across a better Koufax, I'll buy it and give you first shot on the current Koufax at a next to nothing price just because you appreciate the set like I do.

Stay in touch. I know rustywilly.com has two Retirados for sale. His prices are a bit high, but the cards are very nice examples. I have both the Wagner and the Grove or I'd buy them. You might want to have a look. Tylicki is a nice guy, but he's kind of a pain when it comes to pricing.

best,

Scumbi

helionaut

I'd have to say that getting them graded isn't a bad idea, though I'd have to agree that it probably won't earn you a premium. The structural quality of the cards really doesn't look bad. Assuming they aren't trimmed (which is the main benefit of getting them slabbed), they might come back as 5s or 6s. However, the staining is so bad, they might knock them down to emphasize the damage more than a regular ST qualifier would. Plus, if it was possible to have more than one qualifier, these would, some combination of OC, ST, or maybe MC.