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Do these auctions seem to good to be true??

Has anyone ever dealt with the following seller on E-Bay??.....

paoutdoorsman2004

Here is a link to his auctions:

LINK TO CURRENT AUCTIONS


He has 300+ positive feedback with a high rating, but has only been on E-Bay since May....Now all of a sudden he has about $1,000,000 worth of inventory listed with some very nice looking rolls for sale...Too good to be true??

Any thoughts, insight??

EEE
Eagle.Eye.Eddie
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Comments

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    It's a legitimate estate sale.

    Russ, NCNE
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
    I don't know. Looks like he hit the mother lode. Bid on something small and see how it goes.image
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
  • Looks like someone got lucky on a estate sale or something.
    I don't see anything wrong myself.
    image
  • I'd be more concerned about some of the recurrent bidders in his auctions.

    Sorry, there's no way this person is going to complete 492 transactions for tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars.

    I would avoid.


    Edited to add: not all, but a huge majority, of the 492 auctions are the seller you referenced. And I see similar names coming up in the baseball cards as well.
    Realtime National Debt Clock:

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  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd be more concerned about some of the recurrent bidders in his auctions.

    Sorry, there's no way this person is going to complete 492 transactions for tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars.

    I would avoid. >>



    It's not the seller's fault that some whackjob bidder is placing bids in his auctions.

    Russ, NCNE
  • After some looking around, heres my opinion.

    "RUN WILL ROBINSON.RUN"
    image

  • Russ....

    I have seen you post regularly on this board as a respected member....

    I won an auction tonight and am a bit gunshy to send out payment...I won the auction because the bidder referenced to above had all of his/her auctions canceled.....By whoim, I'm not sure...

    Do you mind if I ask how you know that this is legit??

    Thanks for your reply
    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Do you mind if I ask how you know that this is legit?? >>



    There's a thread around here somewhere discussing the Doctor and the estate.



    << <i>I won the auction because the bidder referenced to above had all of his/her auctions canceled.... >>



    I'm not surprised. If I were the seller I'd have cancelled him myself. His bidding pattern screams screwball.

    Russ, NCNE
  • Thanks Russ...

    If you come across the thread, I'd be interested in seeing it....

    Greg Sarles (EEE)
    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • Just be aware of that bidder's full history -- 2706 bids in just the last couple months, and lots and lots of them with the same circle of bidders. Yet only 34 feedback responses and a very low win percentage as far as I can tell, looks to be around 1% or so.

    And s/he's not the only one that gives me pause. But go ahead and roll the dice, I've no direct evidence of anything, just FYI.
    Realtime National Debt Clock:

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  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Just to be on the safe side, I sent the seller the following:



    << <i>Can you provide evidence that this is a legitimate estate sale? Considering the enormous dollar value at play here, I think it would ease many minds if you could do so. There is already a discussion at the collector's universe forum expressing concerns. >>



    I'll update when I receive a response.

    Russ, NCNE
  • I'd like to know why that bidder in particular appears to have hundreds of wins, but a feedback of only 34? I know this is conspiracy theory-esque, but the circumstanial evidence leads me to believe there really is something up with that bidder.

    I leave it to someone else to crunch his/her win numbers.
    Realtime National Debt Clock:

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  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd like to know why that bidder in particular appears to have hundreds of wins, but a feedback of only 34? >>



    Likely because the whacko never paid for the auctions and will soon be racking up negs.

    Russ, NCNE
  • Russ:

    Likely because the whacko never paid for the auctions and will soon be racking up negs.

    What bothers me the most is the number of active bidders in this auction that have recently created accounts....Started up within the past four to five months....Rather strange for the high priced material being offered...

    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • I concur. And I think there's more to this story. It would not be the first time on Ebay that a "ring" was united in purpose.
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  • Any way to check this out with E-Bay??
    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • Ebay? Clueless.

    Again, this is speculation, but for something like this, you need to dig deep -- we're talking IP addresses, email accounts, physical addresses, connections to Paypal accounts, credit cards and/or checking accounts, etc. etc. Ebay is no help here.
    Realtime National Debt Clock:

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  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    why worry about it??? just place your best bid if you like the danged coin & be done w/ it.

    worry about something worth worrying about!!!

    K S
  • why worry about it??? just place your best bid if you like the danged coin & be done w/ it.
    worry about something worth worrying about!!!


    DK.....I lost money last year on a few auctions for some beautiful looking "estate" rolls....Payment was sent, checks were cashed and...poof...The seller disappeared into thin air....Along with my and many others moolah.....E-Bay admitted they were powerless to prevent this from happening...

    This seller had built up a respectable feedback on small ticket items and then listed a bunch of valuable rolls all within the same week.....Very similar to what I noticed with the current seller....

    Maybe being a bit too cautious, but as my father always preached....

    "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

    PS....Took Nankrout's advice and won one relatively small roll and send payment priority....Will let you know what happens...
    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe being a bit too cautious >>



    On eBay these days that's more like just being smart. Since you've bid with him, get his contact info and run it through a reverse directory to see if it comes up as one of those mail box renting places.

    When I got in this morning, I had a response to my question that I find less than satisfying:



    << <i>What is there that it's not legit, the coins are there, what I've told people is that if they are uncomfortable bidding, don't bid. It's as easy as that, thank you. >>



    I responded with the following:



    << <i>Thanks for getting back to me. Here's the problem:

    You signed up on eBay only a few months ago and your previous sales history indicates nothing of real value. Suddenly you have what appears to be about $1 million worth of merchandise listed at auction. There is a classic and sophisticated eBay con whereby the seller spends a few months padding feedback with small sales before launching the scam.

    In addition, you refuse to accept PayPal or credit cards, thereby offering no protection at all for your buyers. The excuse that you can't afford the fees is bogus since everybody knows that offering that payment option encourages more and higher bids, thus easily compensating for the fee.

    Besides the above, many of the bidders in your auctions are also new eBay IDs - another classic sign of a scam.

    I also find your response to my question worrisome. A genuine estate seller would wish to maximize the return on the estate by offering reassurances to bidders. Your response of "bid if you want to" is precisely what one would expect from a con artist.

    You may very well be legit, but you have not demonstrated that to me, or to anyone else by the way you have handled this. So, I ask you again: Can you provide evidence that this is a legitimate estate sale? I'd suggest that if it is, it would be in your own best interest to do so. >>



    I'll report back when I get a response to that.

    Edited to add: I just noticed that he received two negatives today.

    Edited to add: I just sent a similar eMail to eBay asking them to look in to it.

    Russ, NCNE

  • Russ, nice response!
    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • This merchandise is perfect for a very large auction house to handle......
  • DrWhoDrWho Posts: 562 ✭✭
    the negs indicate payment to a PO Box (out in the desert somewhere). no way do i pay to a PO Box. that IS a red flag.
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Edited to add: I just noticed that he received two negatives today. >>



    The negs seem unwarranted, unless I missed something.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    I am not sure if I read his auction description correctly, but it seems he will be offering numerous duplicate rolls of the ones he just sold. Why not wait to bid untill later and see how the quality of the current coins are?---------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i><< Edited to add: I just noticed that he received two negatives today. >>

    The negs seem unwarranted, unless I missed something. >>



    I agree that, at this point, they do. Possibly they may prove prophetic, though.

    Russ, NCNE

  • If it gobbles like a turkey, if it smells like a turkey, if it looks like a turkey, then most likely it is a turkey. Stay away from this seller. I would not bid on anything from this person, nothing at all. Even if you come out with what looks like a bargain, who knows if the material will actually show up at your mailing address? A 500 dollar roll of coins for 250 is no bargain if you pay 250 and get nothing. Which is what the people who bid on this stuff will most likely get, nothing.
    In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
  • emzeeemzee Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭
    He advertises original BU roll of 1945 10c for sale . His picture depicts several put- together rolls of 10c as you can see by looking at the edges of the coins!
    Michael
  • You are turning out to be very diplomatic Russ, good job! I think we can learn much more about these auctions from your approach than other approaches I've seen.

    P.O. Boxes shouldn't be an automatic red flag just in themselves. At least I hope not as I use one! Someone who sells many items on eBay over a long period of time might be a target for a break in. People know you have valuable coins and they know your address. At least that is what my wife worried about until I got my box.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Maybe being a bit too cautious >>



    On eBay these days ...................................................(Deleted so it won't take space

    Edited to add: I just sent a similar eMail to eBay asking them to look in to it.

    Russ, NCNE >>

    image

    Excellent. image
  • On eBay these days that's more like just being smart. Since you've bid with him, get his contact info and run it through a reverse directory to see if it comes up as one of those mail box renting places.

    Russ:

    I've attempted before to get a buyers contact information without success.....The reply from E-Bay is "The contact information you have requested will be sent to your e-mail address promptly".....I've attempted to get information for several past transactions without success....Any thoughts??

    Also, how do I "Run it (contact information) through a reverse directory"....

    Newbie willing to learn image

    EEE
    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    EEE,

    To get contact information, go here.

    Enter the user ID of the seller, and the item number. It must be an auction that you've won, (and maybe one that you're currently bidding in -not sure on that). eBay will eMail it to you.

    Once you have the information you can enter it here to do a reverse directory search.

    Russ, NCNE
  • stephunterstephunter Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭
    I also emailed this guy today about his auctions. I did it just before I found this thread. I explained that I was interested in a number of the items and wanted to know if I could pick them up in person and bring cash, money orders, or a cashiers check at the time I get the merchandise. I will update this thread when I get the response.
  • GandyjaiGandyjai Posts: 1,380 ✭✭
    This smells fishier than a can of rotten sardines sittin' in the Florida sun on a hot summer day!image

    Gandyjai
  • stephunterstephunter Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭
    Well, he responded to the email quickly. Not sure this gives me enough confidence to drop $5-10K on some coins. Here is the response to my question:

    "Hi. Every auction clearly states no paypal and items will be shipped. As I tell anyone, if they cannot agree with the terms in the auction, just don't bid, it's as easy as that. I've had so many people want to buy items from this estate before listing there is no way I'm cutting my own throat and allowing them to buy them as I'm working on consignment. The whole purpose of me doing this is so the estate wouldn't have to deal with ridiculous questions and offers.I have made no exceptions to anyone, so all bids won I hope are honored so negative feedback does not have to be left as the bidder agrees to all terms if they bid in an auction, or just don't bid. Sorry to sound rash, but I"m tired of people trying to undermine this collection I fortunately was able to be included in for listing the items and it frankly is none of their business where the collection came from. I have no hard feelings, people don't have to bid, no one is forcing anyone to do anything except agree to the terms. Everything will be shipped that is paid for. Thank you."


    cointrade@aol.com wrote:

    Question about your item


    Dear paoutdoorsman2004,

    Is it possible to pick up items in person and pay at that time. I am interested in many items that you have listed and I could travel to you and bring either cashiers check, cash, or money orders. Thanks, Vince
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    I just got EXACTLY the same response to my last eMail, word for word. It's a copy/paste job that completely missed the point of the eMail I sent him. Another typical tactic of a con artist is to ignore the real questions and keep the scam going long enough to get the money in the kitty.

    This one is starting to stink.

    Russ, NCNE
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    interesting thread. Will be interested to see how it turns out.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • Russ.....

    I look forward to hearing what E-Bay has to say to your response....Hope they get back to you today/tomorrow/this week....Feel free to contact me when they do....

    EEE




    Eagle.Eye.Eddie
  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By no means am I saying this seller is not legitimite, I just can't confirm that his "story" is true. Again - the story may very well be absolutely true. But I googled and yahooed "H. O. Zimmerman" the doctor, the name, etc., in a multitude of ways and found no hits. A bit unusual that a doctor who practiced for 40 years wouldn't have a single hit about his practice. No doctor listing, no obituary notice, no nothing. Of course the auction could still be legitimate and just the story is a bunch of crap. Even my first inclination about this whole auction was that it could be 3 or 4 dealers combined putting this auction together, along with a "story," maybe one of them is going out of business, to get ebayers excited about it and get "herd mentality" bidding going. In any event, hopefully for the bidders everything turns out okay.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>But I googled and yahooed "H. O. Zimmerman" the doctor, the name, etc., in a multitude of ways and found no hits. >>



    So did I, and got the same lack of results.

    I sent the seller the following in response to his copy/paste:



    << <i>Your copy/paste response completely ignores the questions and concerns I raised in my eMail. Obfuscation is another tool used by con artists.

    Your auctions have been reported to eBay investigations. >>



    We'll see how he handles that one.

    Russ, NCNE
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Hello coin collectors,

    We at the baseball card threads have been watching this auction closely. While many of us are prepared to pay thousands of dollars if indeed the items are what they are and the story is true. Neither one of us has been able to confirm anything. I enjoyed reading this thread to hear your perspective as I collect coins as well. I liked what Russ did in his emails---very smooth!!!

    We have one of our friends who bid about $600 on a lot of vintage baseball cards. He is having trouble with the checkout system right now. We are all waiting for his experience with this dealer and he wants to tell us how things go too.

    I know you guys ran a search on Dr. Zimmerman and to get no results is very strange. I did not like the sellers response to the emails that Russ and others wrote. For him to say that this is an estate auction from late Dr. Zimmerman and then say in his emails that it is no one's business where this stuff came from. Excuse me, it is very much the business of potential bidders to know if this stuff is indeed from a Dr. Zimmerman. We all want to know if this story checks out. All the seller is able to do is to say that he is not twisting anyone's arm to bid on these items. This is not a sincere response and is very defensive. It really seems bad.

    I know he got two negs today, but that was just based on suspicion. A buyer with hundreds of feedback left a neg and a guy with zero feedback left a neg. Well it proves the zero feedback guy was not a shill.

    Just based on the way this seller reponded to emails is enough to turn me off.

    The PO BOX thing does not prove its a scam. Actually, it is wise to get a PO BOX since all these high dollar checks are coming in the mail. A mailbox at home could be robbed since anyone can see these auctions and know where the money is being sent to. A PO BOX was wise in this case. However, for him not to accept credit cards or paypal is very suspicious indeed.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭✭✭
    where did all of his coins go?
  • coin board members,

    as DeutscherGeist just pointed out i sent a check out today for 680.00 for a lot (23) t206 cards.
    hopefully all will go well but i am commited to relaying everything to my fellow board members so check out the thread over there for update's.

    hopefully the investigation will continue and either turn up something good or bad (quickly i hope).
    i can alway's cancel my check if nesassary.

    regards,
    scott
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>where did all of his coins go? >>



    I'll be damned! They are all gone. When I eMailed eBay I used the coins reporting link. Maybe they saw fit to take action?

    Russ, NCNE

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Whoah! His baseball card stuff is now also starting to disappear.

    Russ, NCNE
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots more of his auctions are now "not available" Check out the most recent under the original link in the thread...
  • I am very happy that EBAY seems concerned enough to take action! My hat is off to them! image
    In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
  • I had bid on a roll of Mercury dimes and just got an e-mail....this auction is NULL and VOID.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Now down to 250 items, (from over 1500), and dropping.

    Russ, NCNE

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