Is it okay for a well respected dealer to price gouge moderns?

haletj

A very well respected dealer (should I say who?) sells their moderns for insane prices... 3x to 10x or more of what they go for on ebay or elsewhere... an ms65 1953 nickel for $125 (I've bought 2 for under $20 each recently, the last one to sell on ebay wsa like $10!), an 82 ms66 cent for $100+, these are <$20 coins, and should be even less as you get tons of ones this nice from any roll. Anyone buying moderns from this dealer at these prices is getting totally ripped off. I highly doubt if you tried to sell any of these coins to this dealer at even half what they charge they would not buy any (or otherwise one could make a fortune selling them coins you bought elsewhere). Is this okay? Won't this really hurt the hobby and turn away a lot of people once they realize how much money they've lost?

rlawsha

The best thing a collector can do is become educated about what he or she collects. There are always going to be dealers that charge above market and there will always be some collectors who buy from them because they don't know better or simply must have a certain coin right now. Not much you can do about it. While it may not be fair or moral, it is legal.

Russ

<< <i>Anyone buying moderns from this dealer at these prices is getting totally ripped off. >>



As long as the dealer isn't engaging in some form of deceptive practices, I'd say the onus is on the buyer to do a little value research.

Russ, NCNE

RKKay

<< <i>Is this okay? >>


No. It's not okay, but even worse when it is done by a dealer who is well respected.



<< <i>Won't this really hurt the hobby and turn away a lot of people once they realize how much money they've lost? >>


Absolutely, and it's just a matter of time before they wise up.

Edited to add: While I agree the onus is on the collector to be educated, simple morals would seem to mandate the dealer not take advantage of those who are lazy and trusting.

kranky

Does the dealer have a massive inventory? Some people like the convenience of getting what they want when they want it, as opposed to waiting for one to come along on ebay.

Does the dealer target newbies (sell on TV, advertise in the mass media)? Or does the dealer advertise in hobby publications, where people are more likely to know what a fair price is?

Actually, those are trick questions, I knew who you were talking about.

I have read here more than once where people couldn't even get them to make an offer on coins someone wanted to sell back to them.

sliderider

I would go to that dealer armed with the latest prices of items sold recently on ebay and elsewhere and point out to him that he is way off base in his pricing and that you would be willing to pay a reasonable price more in line with what the coins actually sell for. Dealers love selling to uneducated noobs because they can get higher markups, but if you go there a lot, and he sees you know what you are doing, he will likely comply. If not, never darken his door again.

And a warning does no good if you don't mention names.

DeepCoin

The buyers are paying a stupid tax. A dealer should be able to sell (or not sell) their coins for whatever price they choose. After you sit on the inventory for a while, when your money is not making money for you the prices come back to normal.

rlawsha

From time to time I have had some success with haggling over the price with a dealer. I talked R&I down quite a bit once on a modern I really wanted. I don't think R&I is the dealer you were questioning though, they aren't that far out of line. I think R&I can get away with it more than other dealers because they are somewhat of a specialty dealer as apposed to a commodity dealer.

I have always thought David Hall Rare Coins were a little high but I have bought from them several times in eBay auctions at very reasonable prices. (oops, does this mean I will get low PCGS grades from now on??? )

Another good source I use for moderns is CameoCC, they have been very friendly and fast.

dorkkarl

he OFFERS them at high price, or SELLS them at high price???

huge difference. if someone's willing to buy at a certain price, then the price is NOT "too high"

K S

rlawsha

I doubt if the dealer reports his sales figures to haletj so I think he mean that he OFFERS.....

RBinTex

What Jamie & Rick said

hookedoncoins

I believe a seller/dealer as the right to price his coins as he sees fit. That is how a capitalistic market operates. It is up to the buyer to do his/her homework and avoid such dealers. If the coins are not bought at those prices, the dealer will most likely change his prices.

On a side note, ask the dealer what he will pay for your coin. Tell him you'll sell it for 20% his price. I would be interested to hear what his response would be.

haletj

I will ask them what they will pay for some of the moderns they have listed next time I talk to them on the phone, but I'm 99% sure they won't buy them at any price (unless it is a rare pop top that is actually worth something). They do have a large inventory of moderns now, they've always had a large inventory of classics. They advertise everywhere, have a large website, are at all major show, and now hold auctions (I probably gave it away). How is this different than the Shop at Home guys? The HSN charges 2x-4x what a proof set or BU Morgan should cost to the unknowledgeable, and this dealer is well respected and charging even more like 5-10x what moderns are worth.


<< <i>I doubt if the dealer reports his sales figures to haletj so I think he mean that he OFFERS..... >>


Yes, I mean what prices are actually listed on the website, not actual sales. But get this! Just like HSN they state something like price cut 25% or monthly special save 5%, so your only paying 5x what you should rather than 8x.

Baley

I think the term "price gouge" refers to selling for unrealistically high prices when the buyers have no choice but to buy

for example, selling water and batteries to hurricane victims for 10x the "normal" prices of the items.

With luxury goods like coins (and art, and antiques, etc.), a seller can list them for any price he wishes; as dorkkarl points out, the coins actually selling is another matter.

of course, the seller may not be so "well respected" if/when folks find out what he's charging... they will shop elsewhere, and his other prices will be suspect as well.

rlawsha

Hmm.... sounds like DLRC

michael

i agree with what rick kay said




and for me

it is NOT OK for the dealer to do this

michael

ms70

I think if a dealer is generally accepted as "well respected" within the collecting community, then there is supposed to be a level of trust
and comfort that is invested in dealing with that person. A degree of confidence that price guides or other opinions are not necessary.

If he is trying to sell items at very ridiculous prices then the dealer is taking advantage of his own reputation and will eventually lose the
relationships he has built upon.

Neptune

are they ANA members? aren't there rules on that? I thought it was against ANA policy. Maybe I don't know anything. I would just chalk it up to knowledge and move on. It's a free world?

RYK

Interesting thread...

I visited that dealer's website to check some of the modern prices (only looked at Jeff nickels) and most were priced at or around Coin Values prices with a few outliers that were uo to twice Trends (but most of these were high grade FS examples). Not knowing this market, I cannot say any more about the appropriateness of these prices.

rlawsha

One thing to keep in mind is that modern prices can vary a lot. Take for example a 1983-P quarter graded MS66 in a PCGS slab. It is not uncommon for these to hit $225 on eBay while you may be able to pick one up at a TeleTrade auction for $100. Not every dealer knows the street value of that coin. Putting a modern coin on eBay will expose it to the maximum amount of bidders interested in that coin. Buyers of moderns that are not ultra-rare have gotten used to the fact that the single largest source of these coins is on eBay, like it or not. Like any other series the trick is knowing your series and being able to spot a bargain.

Some dealers know the value of certain modern coins and have attracted buyers. Other dealers price high in hopes of getting some sales from those who do not know the true value of certain moderns. Other dealers like to find a semi rare modern and really jack up the price. It's up to you to know what's happening and buy accordingly.

dorkkarl

<< <i>I think the term "price gouge" refers to selling for unrealistically high prices when the buyers have no choice but to buy >>

bingo

it gets tiresome to read complaints about somebody selling coins at too high a price, if in fact a sale, much less a FORCED sale isn't even known to have taken place. coins, like any other salable item, can be offered for whatever the he11 price a dealer wants to offer it at. whether or not a sale actually takes place is what counts.

the same barf-bag of complaints that you read about "coin vault", "littleton", fit into this category too.

K S