Why some dealers and many others don't post here.
ANACONDA
Posts: 4,692 ✭
I'm not whining. I'm just pointing something out.
I've been posting here for several years. I offer a coin for sale in eBay. No one is twisting anyone's arm. I offer an opinion about the toning in the listing. I offer people a chance to make money, something that has happened before, more than once.
I tell everyone that I did not know the coin was in an ANACs AT holder when I bought it or anytime until yesterday. I take the coin down to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
YET, it is implied that I'm a liar - that I knew that the coin was holdered as AT, when it can be ascertained that that I didn't (ask TBT). Does anyone take the time to do that? No, but the accusations continue to be made.
I stand behind my material - I even start a thread where over 10,000 people can post asking for anyone to come forward who I have mistreated in a coin deal yet so far no one has come forward.
I get criticized for trying to make my listings interesting by taking the time to put what I think are interesting pictures into the listings.
Yes, not everyone has criticized me but the vigor that some put into their attacks and the the inability to even recognize another point of view seems to be an example of kicking the dog - if someone treated you badly, don't take it out on me.
There are many dealers in the US. 2000 people get the Bluesheet and 10,000 get the Greysheet.
How many dealers post here?
Either they're all too busy trying to scratch out a living or some of YOUR compadres are preventing this forum from having people who are immersed full time in the business of coins from wanting to post here.
Or maybe every dealer is just a bad apple and your all just better off not having them be here. Is that it?
The people who will have been mindlessly slamming me in the various threads and who will invariably slam me in this one are the people I'm talking about. Slam me - no problem, but slam me with some argument, some reasonable discussion - a nod to the thought process.
Again, not everyone has checked their brain at the door but MANY people seem to think "hey theirs a dealer who looks like we can bury...let's not even give him a chance to explain himself...let's ignore him and just repeatedly call him a liar."
Some people just don't want to spend their time defending themselves constantly.
I've been posting here for several years. I offer a coin for sale in eBay. No one is twisting anyone's arm. I offer an opinion about the toning in the listing. I offer people a chance to make money, something that has happened before, more than once.
I tell everyone that I did not know the coin was in an ANACs AT holder when I bought it or anytime until yesterday. I take the coin down to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
YET, it is implied that I'm a liar - that I knew that the coin was holdered as AT, when it can be ascertained that that I didn't (ask TBT). Does anyone take the time to do that? No, but the accusations continue to be made.
I stand behind my material - I even start a thread where over 10,000 people can post asking for anyone to come forward who I have mistreated in a coin deal yet so far no one has come forward.
I get criticized for trying to make my listings interesting by taking the time to put what I think are interesting pictures into the listings.
Yes, not everyone has criticized me but the vigor that some put into their attacks and the the inability to even recognize another point of view seems to be an example of kicking the dog - if someone treated you badly, don't take it out on me.
There are many dealers in the US. 2000 people get the Bluesheet and 10,000 get the Greysheet.
How many dealers post here?
Either they're all too busy trying to scratch out a living or some of YOUR compadres are preventing this forum from having people who are immersed full time in the business of coins from wanting to post here.
Or maybe every dealer is just a bad apple and your all just better off not having them be here. Is that it?
The people who will have been mindlessly slamming me in the various threads and who will invariably slam me in this one are the people I'm talking about. Slam me - no problem, but slam me with some argument, some reasonable discussion - a nod to the thought process.
Again, not everyone has checked their brain at the door but MANY people seem to think "hey theirs a dealer who looks like we can bury...let's not even give him a chance to explain himself...let's ignore him and just repeatedly call him a liar."
Some people just don't want to spend their time defending themselves constantly.
0
Comments
<< <i>YET, it is implied that I'm a liar - that I knew that the coin was holdered as AT, when it can be ascertained that that I didn't (ask TBT). Does anyone take the time to do that? No, but the accusations continue to be made. >>
Yep, I did. You better go back and talk to Bryan again is all I have to say before you keep posting. A simple phone call might clear things up.
Michael
PLASTIC OPINIONS ONLY FOR ME!!!
K S
I think you're overreacting. It is a business for you so from your perspective it is a serious
problem, and it's understandable that you're concerned. While I admit I've read few of the
threads on the subject, most of the posters have been reasonable (if not friendly) in their
statements. Yes, the attacks, though few, seem to be largely unwarranted, they are certain-
ly predictable.
It's true that we can't attract many dealers and it's for exactly the reasons you are stating.
It's also true that your handling of the "problem" will exonerate you in most peoples' eyes.
Louis
1. They have the interest
2. It's free advertising and good for business
3. They really love what they do
I can think of several dealers who I have dealt with because of my exposure to them here. If not for this forum, I probably would have never run across them.
Dealers don't post because:
1. They don't have the time
2. They don't have the interest
3. They don't have the know-how
4. They have something to hide and are afraid of getting slammed.
Honest people don't get slammed. Or if they do, the misconception is cleared up pretty quickly.
You said:
I stand behind my material
Is that what "no return on this coin" means? (w/respect to the toner that started all this)
<< <i>I know many dealers who will not post here because of the slamming that goes on. It does get out of hand at times. >>
bunch of thin skinned wimps!
Tell em to keep hiding in the corner!
Cause Lucille may flame them!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
and a few posts later:
You've posted several threads already fishing for justification, and now that you're not getting it
but most helpfully from a fresh new board member with 98 posts:
"I'm new to coin collecting and these boards. But one thing I have noticed is that there is way too much bashing of individuals for one reason or another here. I joined these boards wanting to learn about coins. I enjoy the beautiful pictures of coins and peoples joy about their sets of coins. I want to stay a member here but I feel I'll need to go elsewhere to continue my process of learning about coin collecting if this continues. Please all let's focus on the "Joy In Coin Collecting". Thanks, Lee "
But we're all rational here, right?....and no one picks on anyone else, especially dealers....right?
and it has nothing to do with wise people who come here and leave or stop participating and become lurkers. So only the brave and the uncontrolable remain.......
Now, you have been pretty good natured good humored and even witty about past attacks but the constant bombardment of the same and different attacks can wear on even thick skinned folks.
I have always preached that if someone wants to attack someone else do it with dignity and class. It is not always what the attacker is saying but HOW he says it.
I have never bought or sold anything with you but from my observations you are an fine fellow indeed.
Hang in there and hopefully the posters who enjoy your presence here will help convince you to stay despite the naysayers.
By the way, I have not always agreed with you in the past but they always seemed to be minor stuff and frankly I can't even remember any of the details. NONE of the disagreements ever was concerned about your integrity or honesty just some technical mumbo about commentary and specific coins and stuff like that.
I also think your coin is quite different from another well known dealer and grading company that claims to use a different set of standards than everyone else. You stated your opinion, and didn't make any guarentees that the coin is NT. I don't see the problem. Some obviously do, but I don't. (Personally I think some people will find fault with anyone no matter what.)
I've learned two things from these discussions:
1. There are a lot of self proclaimed toning experts out there.
2. There are a lot of holier than thou attitudes out there as well.
One thing about human nature, it doesn't matter what kind of proof exists, there will always be conspiracy theorists.
Dennis
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
to receive one. This forum is the cutting edge of opinion and collector
interest. Posting to this Forum can be a humbling experience and yet,
in addition to the heat and outrage ,can come light and wisdom and knowledge.
Once placed on the fire of the forge, a tempered blade is stronger for the process.
Camelot
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
All of us have been singed, tweaked and buffeted. Perhaps
some more then others. You want to wear long pants, you take what
comes with it.
Camelot
I assumed it was because they were computer illiterate.
I did not see the earlier posts that have caused this controversy, and your shagrin at the responses. And I do not have a solution.
Not being a dealer should allow me to post ideas without fear of slamming, loss of sales, and reputation. But I have refrained from many topics, and responding to others because of the few individuals here who are looking for controversy at any cost. It will continue, for various reasons. But that may not be all bad. If the forum becomes a gathering post of gossip mongers and critics without facts, then we can all go back to our favorite pastimes and get outside and smell the roses.
In fact, that's where I am going right now. Maybe I will see you all later next year.
Walmart buys locks from China and sell them at 1000% markup, this is what you get from Business in the USA were you have that freedom to charge and sell what you want,if you make a good prfit good for you.
What i did see is many posters who have line up for a lawsuit,when you slader someone who makes a life out of selling coins, you better have a good law guy,you may endup with the loss of your house and home,becareful what you post as it is slader
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i>
<< <i>YET, it is implied that I'm a liar - that I knew that the coin was holdered as AT, when it can be ascertained that that I didn't (ask TBT). Does anyone take the time to do that? No, but the accusations continue to be made. >>
Yep, I did. You better go back and talk to Bryan again is all I have to say before you keep posting. A simple phone call might clear things up.
Michael >>
After talking with Adrian via PM's I have come to the conclusion that he did not know the $7500 coin had been in an ANACS holder as AT'ed.
We did talk about the color and if it was AT or not plus the history of the coin from the seller I bought it from.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Maconlock, welcome to the forum. Please stick around.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Maconlock: Welcome! It isn't always like this and when not all riled up, the folks here are usually much nicer and very helpful. In fact, that's usually the case with the majority of the people on this board.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
<< <i>Maconlock, welcome to the forum. Please stick around >>
I agree , you are welcome here.
Anaconda:
The indians have a saying: "You are powerful if you have powerful enemies." Some of the little people find thier importance elevated when they can attack those who's coins and position in the collector community they wish they could achieve. I assure you that they are a small(but vocal) group. After all if they approched anyone at a show with these types of accusations they would most certainly be thrown out. This forum is a great equalizer. Thanks for staying around and responding.
Another saying that come to mind "everyone wants to see the big man fall", Stay in here, keep posting the pictures, (some coins too
I also agree with this thread too, If I was a dealer I sure wouldn't post in this pit bull arena. You might as well buy a shirt with a target on the back.
Then don't. Why bother? The whole subject is frankly getting really old, and you're not likely to sway anyone's opinion of you one way or the other. They either like you or they don't.
Continue this endless pursuit of justification for what you do and you'll have a lot more people thinking less of you than they have in the past. I, for one, don't know you and don't know much of anything about you other than the fact that you've shown that you overreact easily, which is not a good trait to have.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
How is this questionable?
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Good thing I erased what I originally responded to you with...
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
I have learned so much about coins and the marketing of them, the history, who owns them, etc. It has been unreal, and my passion has gone through the roof. Most do not have a hobby. Coins is mine.
I thank all the dealers I have met, who thread, and collectors whether small or big. If I have a question, I always have someone to give me the answer.
Anaconda, like everyone else, wishes to make a buck. He is considered a "have". I bet he started with little to nothing. Regarding any endeavour, most started off with nothing, than become successful. Only in America. Most of the "have not's" are jealous of the "have's" and sometimes feel they screwed someone to get where they are, or think mom and dad helped them. (exact comments said about me on other threads, when I said something that wasn't liked).
I used to be a "have not", but worked hard and grew my business while employing others, (have never fired anyone), and am criticized by the "have not's" for my success (democrats, the press in general). I am a republican, but not considered part of "Working America" because I only work 80 hours a week, anytime during the week, even weekends and Holidays.
Don't know why I changed gears for a sec. I guess regarding coin buying, like anything else, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Someone on this forom noticed the AT Morgan dollar from one EBAY auction to another, and it has been quite an eye opener. Someone on this forum did homework for someone else. Keep up the good work.
(still not sure who to vote for. Kerry and Bush the best we can offer????)
Yes you have colorful comments on your coins. I enjoy the hell out of them, and they make this hobby that much more fun for me.
I consider it an honor to know you.
<< <i>(still not sure who to vote for. Kerry and Bush the best we can offer????) >>
Nope.
<< <i>One dealer I'd love to see post here is the guy who wrote "The toning looks like textile toning but I don't think it's original" in the 1884 auction, and who left the 1881 in the ANACS slab in the other. His questionable business decisions would make for a good post. >>
Shylock, the original seller was not questionable at all. He honestly described the coins, and they sold for what they should have. The questionable activities here are the ones taken by the middleman and possibly the final seller. We will probably never know who, but one way or another you have two coins being offered at fifty times their true value.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
So where are you from?
The indians have a saying: "You are powerful if you have powerful enemies." Some of the little people find thier importance elevated when they can attack those who's coins and position in the collector community they wish they could achieve. I assure you that they are a small(but vocal) group. After all if they approched anyone at a show with these types of accusations they would most certainly be thrown out. This forum is a great equalizer. Thanks for staying around and responding.
Another saying that come to mind "everyone wants to see the big man fall", Stay in here, keep posting the pictures, (some coins too )and don't let the minority drive you off.
I also agree with this thread too, If I was a dealer I sure wouldn't post in this pit bull arena. You might as well buy a shirt with a target on the back. "
Thanks. I'm not perfect but man, I am a lightning rod for people with a baseball bat. It's a good thing I like to fight even if I get the hell beat out of me from time to time. At least I know I'm alive. For now........
I'm still new here, and don't know most of you. I'm not a dealer, but I have been collecting for longer than some of our memebers have been alive.
I do know that when I arrived back from a few days on the road something had caused quite a stir. I read a couple hundred posts worth of slander, flame and arrogance ... lynch mob mentality and defensive actions. Much was way OT in my opinion. Like a good fire trying to burn itself out, and then fed with more fuel from a passer buy who didn't even understand the fire's purpose.
Personally I feel Anaconda did nothing wrong, and is probably more the victim than the victimizer. He bought a potentially bad coin (haven't we all at some point?), that he thought (or hoped?) was good. Big score if he's right. Tough hit if he's wrong. Although, since he has all that cool stuff on ebay, and is a better marketer than 90% of the rest, and a lawyer to boot ... well, he's a hell of a target also. Too bad ...
I hope you hang around Adrian ... I appreciate most of your posts and material ... more than I can say for many of the lynch mob. Generally I steer clear of lawyers, but you I appreciate for some reason ... one of these days I might even buy something from you.
I do think you went OT trying to defend yourself ... but not nearly as OT as those who came to hang you.
Schoolyard bullies are a pain in the ... but, if we're gonna play, they will be there. Funny thing is most bullies are pretty damn insecure, follow each other's lead, and are the first to run and hide when confronted with a real threat. As we used to say in the Navy, "NOT someone I'd want to go in the fire with."
The people I'd go in the fire with? ... they stand their ground, state their case, take their lumps, learn their lessons, try and do the right things and keep pressing on. I for one consider you might be one of those Adrian, from what little I've seen. There are many others here I would pass on ...
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
<< <i>I tell everyone that I did not know the coin was in an ANACs AT holder when I bought it or anytime until yesterday. I take the coin down to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
YET, it is implied that I'm a liar - that I knew that the coin was holdered as AT, when it can be ascertained that that I didn't (ask TBT). Does anyone take the time to do that? No, but the accusations continue to be made.
I stand behind my material - I even start a thread where over 10,000 people can post asking for anyone to come forward who I have mistreated in a coin deal yet so far no one has come forward.
I get criticized for trying to make my listings interesting by taking the time to put what I think are interesting pictures into the listings.
Yes, not everyone has criticized me but the vigor that some put into their attacks and the the inability to even recognize another point of view seems to be an example of kicking the dog - if someone treated you badly, don't take it out on me.
The people who will have been mindlessly slamming me in the various threads and who will invariably slam me in this one are the people I'm talking about. Slam me - no problem, but slam me with some argument, some reasonable discussion - a nod to the thought process.
>>
I also have felt the venom and bile of many of the posters here. I attribute it to sub-par IQ or pure bitterness.
Its tough living, without a little bile now and again.
Camelot
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
<< <i>Bile is a good thing. It helps digest fats in the diet.
Its tough living, without a little bile now and again. >>
Hmmmm. These Boards are now a digestive aid!
<< <i>Hmmmm. These Boards are now a digestive aid! >>
Actually more like indigestion if you ask me!!