new grading service?opinion and questions?

collector222

I just joined the forums, seems like a cool place, hope to learn alot.

now onto my question,I stumbled upon another grading service like we need another one and decided to give them a shot

i had a 1984 fleer ryan sanderg rookie and a 1957 topps mickey mantle graded by www.ngsgrading.com
the sanderg came back a NGS 3.0 B exc-nm and the mantle came back a NGS 2.3C+ vg-exc, the only reason i gave this comapny a shot is because i have never seen any other graders grade this way on a 4.0 system report card style grading system.
also on my report sheet they came me a average cumulative GPA of my cards of 2.65, which is kinda cool.
the slabs look high quality,and the turnaround was very quick, but i am wondering if i should break open the slab and submit to psa to see if their grading is on par or atleast close with them before i submit any other cards.

has anyone had any experience with them?what do u think of the grading scale and should i break this open and submit to psa?

all opinions welcome

and thanks!hope to contribute something to this board as well as learn

collector222

A761506

Welcome to the forum. You should learn a lot here, as a matter of fact, you're about to learn your first lesson about grading companies.

Those slabs you had your cards put into are completely worthless and you could never resell the cards for more than a small fraction of their actual value, especially since it sounds like you submitted unaltered cards. Most of those basement operations only get their hands on altered material, especially if it's vintage, because it gets rejected by the reputible companies (PSA & SGC). Just because it's in a "graded" holder, there is nobody mediating this industry, so therefore, anyone could open their own grading company. The market is determined by the buyers of graded material, and most will only deal with PSA, SGC (or BGS & GAI, but I personally avoid both of them as well).

collector222

thanks for your reply, while i am well aware that psa, and beckett have a hold on the market and their cards resell for more.
but i have also had cards graded by pgs and a few other lesser known grading services and while they may not grade as hard as psa, the value is still quite a bit more than having them ungraded. for example i bought a 1961 topps mantle grade its by pgs a 6 bought it for under 100 sold it for over 215 almost what a psa 6 would go for.

my question was just if there has been any experience with this company or with a grading system similar to that.I just found it quite unique and interesting ,just wanted to get your opinions on it.as i am sure psa and beckett etc.. are not the only ones that can grade cards effectively.

let me know

thanks!

A761506

Try measuring those cards in those PGS cases... unless you submitted them yourself, there's a high chance they are altered, especially Mantle's. Standard cards measure 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 within 1/32". There's also a chance they are counterfeits, as some of these no-name companies will grade fakes, either because they can't tell the difference or they just don't care.

Stone193

<< <i>has anyone had any experience with them? >>


Welcome collector222
You have been given some pretty solid advice. PSA is solid although it is not my favorite holder.
Hope your stay here is a good one!
your friend
Mike

67standup

Only worthwhile companies are SGC, PSA and I'm a loser collector and want to deceive the public with my authenticated garbage, Inc.

collector222

dont know exacly what the last comment on the thread meant, i have had cards graded by psa and beckett and i agree their service and grading is top notch along with the slabs you get but, i have waited a month to get a card returned from psa.

my original again was has anybody had experience with this comapny , if so what is your experience.

and what do you think of the grading scale, would it be hard to resell not only because its a lesser known grading company but also because the grading system is a little different than the big 3?

again i would like opinions on this and do u think its a good idea if you are going to grade from a cheaper ,quicker but less known grader to get atleast one of the cards checked out by psa?


thanks in advance

RepublicaninMass

<< <i>

i had a 1984 fleer ryan sanderg rookie and...

collector222 >>



FYI SAndberg rookie is '83 fleer

collector222

thanks for the correction i always referred to it as 84 as i believe that was his first year playing.

WinPitcher

does your flip say sandberg rookie?

EagleEyeKid

I seriously doubt anyone on these boards have had any experience with this grading service
you're using. It seems obvious that you like them (holder, service, etc.). If for whatever purpose
you're in the hobby for and it brings you enjoyment; then that's all that should matter.
Some people use Brawny, some use Bounty. Whichever works.

koby

<< <i>dont know exacly what the last comment on the thread meant, i have had cards graded by psa and beckett and i agree their service and grading is top notch along with the slabs you get but, i have waited a month to get a card returned from psa.

my original again was has anybody had experience with this comapny , if so what is your experience.

and what do you think of the grading scale, would it be hard to resell not only because its a lesser known grading company but also because the grading system is a little different than the big 3?

again i would like opinions on this and do u think its a good idea if you are going to grade from a cheaper ,quicker but less known grader to get atleast one of the cards checked out by psa?


thanks in advance >>



I am sorry to tell you that your NGS graded cards will be virtually impossible to sell. If they do sell, they will be for a fraction of the price that you could have gotten if you had chosen a reputable grading company.

Stone193

<< <i>my original again was has anybody had experience with this comapny , if so what is your experience. >>


collector222
I, like most collectors who post on PSA forum, am a mainstream collector and favor PSA for obvious reasons. So, if someone new comes here asking about a very esoteric company - you can expect some skeptical questions/remarks. It's sorta like going to Wendy's and asking how people like the Big Mac?

This company and the plastic they come with, isn't worth much IMO - and I don't think you'll find anyone who has had experience with this outfit.

Again,
welcome and good luck.
your friend
Mike

collector222

while i understand this forum favors psa, and obviously for resell value you cant go wrong, but for the 100 membership, lengthy forms, and the high prices and slow turnaround of psa, looking at other alternatives for say cheaper cards may be a possible option.

i mean i got my cards grading at NGS for 6 bucks and had my grades and cards back to me in 5 days, with just as good of holders and probably just as good of grades or maybe slightly higher than what psa would grade.

if it wasnt for psa resell value in the open market, there would no reason to use them as other graders can do the same job for less money, and faster turnaround.

and there willbe eventually other grading services that come out of the myst and can hold some type of resell value similar to psa.

i mean if i can get a card graded by PGS buy it below 100 , grade it and then its worth 215 in the open market, i dont really care what holder its in.

again i was just asking of opinions if anybody has dealt with a 4.0 report card style grading system similiar to ngs.

i found it unique and wanted to see what everybody else thought.

thanks for your opinions though

and i like big macs and great biggie fries because i am a fat ass

koby

collector22,

I cannot find any NGS cards on ebay. Can you post a scan of a NGS card?

Thanks,
koby

collector222

i have no idea how long ngs has been around, i am just saying maybe watch in a year or so and see if there are any other grading services or if ngs gains populiarty do to having a different system.

i will try and get some scans with my buddies scanner as soon as possible

thanks

WinPitcher

just as good of grades or maybe slightly higher than what psa would grade.


what does that tell u

NickM

When everyone else uses a 10 scale, using a 4.0 scale is a very bad idea. Prospective buyers that see a 3.0 will think it's a VG card from an eBay listing.

A Sandberg rookie in PSA 7 (NM) is next to worthless. Leave that card encased as it is. I would break out the Mantle and submit it to PSA on a low-cost service option. As it currently stands, your Mantle is suspect to most buyers.

Your comparison of NGS to PGS is not very apt. PGS has been around for several years and has a reputation as one of the better off-brand graders for vintage cards. In a condition like Ex-Mt, there is a significant likelihood that a vintage PGS star is actually unaltered and would cross over to PSA at no worse than 1 grade lower, and the collecting market prices it that way.

Nick

collector222

i see, well that would probably mean, that the other grading services have to grade cards higher, in order for people to order from them seeing a pgs 8 sometimes looks better than a psa 6

i am thinking of listing the ngs card on ebay and just see what it brings compared to a psa, i bet it brings more than an ungraded card but less than a psa , probably somewhere in the middle, and for the fast turnaround,price difference and no membership, thats not bad, of course if it goes for less than a ungraded card i may rethink my stategy


how much is psa's lowest submission rate?
how long does it take?

A761506

$8 and it can take up to 45 days. Be patient, it's worth it. And the membership cost is insignificant, since they give you 6 grades with it, plus SMR magazine/price guide.

These unknown/unrecognized "companies" that you're referring to, like NGS, can be started by anyone on a whim out of their garage or basement, which is why they will never take off, no matter how much they charge, how quick they get your cards back or how well they grade. The majority of the market share for card grading/authentication belongs to PSA. After them, SGC and Beckett, followed by GAI. Beyond that, there are no grading companies who are accepted throughout the hobby as being reputible my the majority of collectors.

collector222

i understand what your saying.8 bucks isnt bad, but 45 days is ridicoulous, but, i guess if your keeping the card for awhile its not that bad.

why is psa and the other 2 or 3 the only ones people trade in, because they were the first or?
while i understanding your warning about people setting up shop in garage or something , thats why i think u get a few of their cards graded by the big 3, use the off tier services for cards that are inexpensive and u need back fast, use psa etc... for high priced vintage etc...

i dont see why, there cant be room for more than the first 2 or 3 companies that started grading.

this is a very new market as psa just started what in 98?
6 years for a market is just the tip of the iceberg, i think we may see some changes in who is seen as rebutable and grading systems etc... as i think the market for getting merchandise authenicated will keep expanding.

what do u think?

ping4u43

It appears to me that you must be the grader.

bobsbbcards

Strangest thing. I can't find any reference on the web to NGS (except for coin grading). Also, no auction listings currently on eBay (or in the completed section). I would think if they were such a "rebutable" grading service, some people would have had their merchandise "authenicated" by them. Just a thought.

Bob

P.S. Oops, forgot to say IMO.

WinPitcher

i have some cards that i would love to have hi grades for, maybe i will try ngs or whatever it is.

habs71

<< <i>It appears to me that you must be the grader. >>



BINGO!! My thoughts also.

Think we have SPAM/troll here.



Skip

Stone193

Collector 222 provided a link to the company in his original post.
Collector 222
This board is made up entirely of collectors who choose to deal with "reputable" companies which can be trusted to grade/authenticate cards that are worthy of collecting or selling. The ebay sellers here are of the highest reputation and pride themselves on their customer service and their rating which reflects that goal.
Thus, no one here will trust one of these companies - in the past, they have all holdered cards that have been altered in some way.
No one is trying to make this difficult for you but it goes back to what you have been told before - trust only the companies that have been listed - the rest are questionable and not worthy of collecting or selling without potential problems.
I understand what you are asking - if you just want the card in a holder - you got it - if you want to sell it on ebay great - but no one here would trust acquiring and then selling these holdered cards for fear of passing on a bad card.
What do ya think?
your friend
Mike

A761506

Hehe... don't know what possessed me to do this, but.... funny how NGS grading is located in a student apartment building not more than a few blocks from the football stadium at Indiana University. If the guy who started this post isn't the guy trying to run the grading company, this should completely squash any thoughts he had about the company being legitimate.



225 E. 20th st. #29
Bloomington, IN 47408

Stone193

<< <i>If the guy who started this post isn't the guy trying to run the grading company, this should completely squash any thoughts he had about the company being legitimate. >>


A76
Very interesting! Nice work. I don't know but someone just got BUSTED!

Stone

habs71

<< <i>Registrant:
National Grading Services
1313 W.woodhill dr.
Bloomington, ON 47403
US

Domain name: NGSGRADING.COM

Administrative Contact:
gordon, gabe ggordon@indiana.edu
1313 W.woodhill dr.
Bloomington, ON 47403
US
+1.8123366698
Technical Contact:
Support, Terrasite Support@terrasite.com
83 Stowell Dr
Rochester, NY 14616
US
+1.8003357882 Fax: +1.5853689008



Registration Service Provider:
Terrasite Internet Services, Support@terrasite.com
585 368 9000
585 368 9008 (fax)
http://www.terrasite.com
This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.


Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 02-Aug-2004.
Record expires on 27-Jul-2005.
Record created on 27-Jul-2004.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS.CBCNETWORK.COM 67.19.121.218
NS2.CBCNETWORK.COM 67.19.121.219


Domain status:
ACTIVE >>





Skip

Stone193

<< <i>National Grading Services
225 E. 20th st. #29
Bloomington,IN 47408 >>



?

Stone

EagleEyeKid

Nice detective work guys. I couldn't stop laughing.
NGS = Not a Grad Student!

bigcollector222

actually i dont think this guy was NGS, but the adress does seem weird, so good work.
but even if the guy was i find it pretty funny that you guys have nothing else better to do than get sky views of somebody's adress to try and protect the all mighty PSA

get a life

maybe he was NGS and trying to create a new grading service and just wanted to get your opinions on it and views.if he was i highly doubt he actually thought people were going to send him cards just because he posted here, probably just want to get your reaction.

and he did as you guys are unwilling to accept any new service, so field test failed

but the guy with sky image of an adress is classic,whats this guy doing with his life, that he has the time to do that

later

bigcollector222

to be flat honest
i am collector222.

and i set up a website etc.. to gauge interest in what another grading service's chance would be.
and what kind of an uphill battle one might have and to be flat honest i am a gauging interest for a real business possible a grading service due to the fact i have access to people who would be willing to grade cards etc.. and who have been in the sports memorabilia and collectables markets for years, which lowers somewhat the cost of entry into the market.

but it seems it would be possible to have a second tier grading service that does little business and deals in cheap cards.but to break into the 3 or 4 grading services would be difficult and require significant capital

does this seem about correcT?

EagleEyeKid

I like this thread now.

Stone193

<< <i>i have access to people who would be willing to grade cards etc.. >>


Room222
At this point, I wouldn't trust you or your endeavor for the manner in which you approached your so called "field test" - you have totally underestimated the depth of the knowledge of this business that is around CU and our willingness to research and expose what we suspect may be questionable dealings on ebay or the hobby at large.
We are not protecting PSA but rather OURSELVES - please understand the distinction - we are constantly bombarded with phony ebay sales, bad grading companies etc.
I would recommend you go back to the drawing board and come up with an improved strategy if you truly want to embark on a career in the collectibles/sports card grading business.
your friend
Mike

Stone193

<< <i>get a life >>


By the way, people who know me here at CU will attest to the fact that what I am about to say with respect to your remark about 'getting a life' is very uncharactertically Stone193:

F+CK YOU!

Stone

bigcollector222

well actually you were the one who did that, so it wasnt directed towards you but same to you bud.

never the less, you cant get peoples true reaction unless you approach as it was indeed a real business up and running.
therfor i had to do this and you guys have giving me some valueable information and i appreciate it.

if you have anymore tips or suggestions i would love to hear them.

but come on the sky image, was pretty funny
like he thinks hes working for nasa or the nsa

classic waste of time

Stone193

<< <i>if you have anymore tips or suggestions i would love to hear them >>


Room222 or is it BigRoom222
To start with....try some honesty; don't insult the intelligence of your target audience.
Don't walk into Burger King and ask the patrons how they like the Big Mac?
Understand that on a forum as large as this one, that we are bombarded with spam and trolls who have nothing better to do than bust our balls.
When you get busted, have a little humility and just plain admit you were caught - you have no idea how far these people will go to to get at the truth. That isn't idle crap worthy of such a trite retort as "get a life" - show some respect when you got busted.
I have to apologize for losing my temper but on the other hand I thank you....this is the most entertainment we have had in a while.
Hell, am I on candid camera again?



your friend
Mike

NickM

Gabe Gordon, Hoosier daddy?



Nick

Stone193

<< <i>i highly doubt he actually thought people were going to send him cards just because he posted here, probably just want to get your reaction. >>


It may just be what was intended....to see if they could rip some people off? Stranger things have happened than this! Perhaps, another forum in another galaxy?
Well, a pretty cool web site with some really great graphics was set up - that seems like enough evidence to convict someone of conspiracy to defraud.
Talk about who has time on their hands?
Again,
Thanx for the memories
Stone

bigcollector222

you guys seem seem to think you actually accomplished nothing, but in fact you just wasted a few hours of your life.
to be perfectly honest, i am well aware of that anybody can look up my adress on the internet and i am well aware anybody can see the domain and who has it registered.
the fact of the matter is this what just what i said a field test, nothing more and nothing less,and i have learned a few things and how hard it wouldbe to start a service.


thanks for the input

bigcollector222

the site was setup as a project and didnt take too long to create, and if i decide to go ahead with a business its there.

i have the graders etc..

just want to know how it would take to a public forum such as this.

thanks again for your help.

Stone193

<< <i>the fact of the matter is this what just what i said a field test, nothing more and nothing less,and i have learned a few things and how hard it wouldbe to start a service. >>


Next time field test something a little smaller to start....like try practicing: "would you like fries with your order, sir"?

Schmuck!

habs71

<< <i>Gabe Gordon, Hoosier daddy? >>









<< <i>IU Address Book

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GABRIEL JAMES GORDON (Student)
Campus: Bloomington
E-mail:
Phone: 812 336-6698 >>



Source: http://people.iu.edu/index.cgi




Skip

bigcollector222

well since i make more money than you doing nothing part time, because i am the owner of 4 of my own business's already i highly doubt i will ever have to field test that.b ut you can handle that one.


i dont know why you continue on trying to insult me, when all i was trying to do is get some opinions on a possible new entry into the the market, if you were looking to do something similar i am sure you would test something out before investing any serious money, just makes sense.

not meant to rile anybody up

just gather information

habs71

<< <i>i dont know why you continue on trying to insult me... >>




No, it's your integrity, or lack thereof, that's being questioned.

You insulted the members of this board by not being honest and above board. And as you have seen, that is not taken lightly by board members.



Skip

Stone193

<< <i>well since i make more money than you doing nothing part time, because i am the owner of 4 of my own business's already i highly doubt i will ever have to field test that.b ut you can handle that one. >>


So Mr. Cuban
you are a big dot com honcho - tell you what - call (210) 403-0555 tomorrow morning and we will compare notes on who has what. Once again, Mr. Student ID, you have underestimated your audience. You have no idea who you are dealing with yet you continue to play the injured "field tester."
You came on the forum like a new member just looking for some advice - there was absolutely no reason to lie - you could have gotten the same information without the charade.
The people who post here and on adjunct boards are honest, serious, dedicated collectors. This is also a family of participators for the most part.
You tell people to "get a life" - they have "wasted hours of their life" etc. and again, try to play the injured "field tester?" I don't think so.
If you feel like you have been attacked, and this was ALL a big misunderstanding - then take me up on the call tomorrow and we will discuss your plans. Friday would be even better since I will be spending most of the day on something near and dear to your heart: advertising both internal and external.
Stone

bigcollector222

well i like the mr.cuban comment


but no of course i dont who i am talking to and you dont who i am so no reason for the"would u like fries comment"

maybe i will take u up on it.

but actually i wouldnt of gotten the same reaction if i just approached it and told you upfront.
as people wouldnt of tried to dismiss the grading service etc,, before even knowing it and thats what i would be up against if i chose to start one, which is an uphill battle,plus the fact you are right, a psa holder is going to have more value than any other holder which is another uphill battle.

thanks for the information and maybe i will take you up on your number if you have any more information on grading services etc..

thanks

Stone193

<< <i>but no of course i dont who i am talking to and you dont who i am so no reason for the"would u like fries comment" >>


OK Gabe - do your friends call you "Flash"?
You would not have gotten that retort if you hadn't insulted us when you were busted. Again, you are missing the point. Many of us have a small fortune invested in our hobby and are very leery of anyone coming on board the way you did.
Flatly, your approach was bad and you got caught - you then got defensive and insulting - I gave it right back to you - and you deserved it.
Go back and reread the sequence of events - if you recollect I did try to apologize and make light of it - but you insisted upon making insulting remarks with respect to the tremendous "resourcefulness" of the great people who frequent this forum.
I have a tremendous affection for these guys and we all come from different walks of life - you were the one who came on strong about who you may be....the fact is...most of us here don't even know or recollect what each one of us does for a living - it is quite irrelevant - we share a hobby - not jobs or life styles in common.
So, I would stop feeling picked on - try just excusing yourself for your methods and concomittant attitude and come back as Gabe222 and start all over again.
Hi, my name is Mike and I am from San Antonio
I collect sports cards, game used bats, auto balls and cards among other things. I understand you are interested in starting up a grading company? Well that is quite an ambitious goal. We on the board, who have been dealing with these companies since their start - which goes back to around 1990 - would be glad to provide you with input - if this is a grad student project - tremendous! Where would you like to start with the questions?
Your friend
Mike

WinPitcher

ok ok ill put it back in


yeah how about get lost troll............

lol

Stone193

<< <i>yeah how about get lost troll >>