My Apology

braddick

I apologize for any stress I may have caused anyone this afternoon and evening from the posts/threads I created. I realize this hobby is a profession for many and it is not my place to expose, even in the content of fun and games, the goings on of anyone. It's none of my business and certainly my comments were not called for and were also out of line.

I apologize to ANACONDA and TBT for any and all disparaging statements- statements that have since been edited.

BigE

No worries, it was probably a matter of time before they were exposed anyway-------------------BigE

Fairlaneman

People get what they deserve in the long run.

I am not talking about Pat.

Ken

BigE

True, best to edit your posts when and bullion traders threaten you------------------------------BigE

Fairlaneman

POS....Wow tell it like it is........

Heck that was post 6000 here. Maybe I should give away a Toned Raw Dollar. Nope.... I'll try to fleece someone for 3 grand. That sounds better and just fantastic for the Hobby.

Ken

Bear

Fairlaneman

Screw this court of Law crap. This is a chat board for coins not a damn court room. If people cannot take the heat on a coin that is up for auction thats just to damn bad. Of course threats always gets them what they want.

BTW do Scum Bags sleep well at night ?

Ken

FrattLaw

<< <i>do Scum Bags sleep well at night >>



From my experience -- only the rich ones do.



Bear -- by the way, since I have seen the inside of a courtroom, exactly what do you think Braddick accused anyone of? Inflating the price of a toned Morgan dollar -- really no issue there. I really don't think that's actionable. Further Braddick proved that the coin was purchased for $72.00 and listed for $3800.00. Where exactly is the tort?

Michael

stman

WOW, I wonder if all that noise earlier is the type of things Laura Legend was warning everybody about on her Hot Topics? We hear you Legend Lady, the whole world hears you. I take it all back (don't hold me to it OK?) more Legend Lady for me!!!!!!

TUMUSS

Pat,

Thanks for having the cojones to be HONEST with the information you shared. I always watch for your posts!

Personally I don't think that it is necessary to appologize for saying "It snowed today" when everyone can see the snow on the ground.

Tom

sliderider

I don't see anything that needs apologising for. In one thread you showed that TBT bought a coin in an ANACS slab with a notation about artificial toning and that Anaconda now has the same coin in his posession, raw, and selling for an outrageous amount of money with a worthless buyback guarantee. I think that the buyback guarantee alone might entrap some poor, unsuspecting newbie into buying it without knowing it will bodybag for artificial toning. The implication is made that this is a raw, MS65 coin which it clearly is not. The required level of detail may be there, but the toning kills it. I don't know what the legal ramifications of such implications may be, or if a buyer would have any legal recourse if the coin comes back bagged, but IN MY OPINION, it's a borderline shady deal at best. (I am merely stating my own opinion, which I am legally entitled to do under the free speech amendment of the Constitution and not making a statement of fact which might be considered libelous or scandalous, hence the emphasis on 'IN MY OPINION', so I don't want to see any threatening PMs in my box from anyone.)

Sequitur

Where is the original thread? If it was deleted, I'll repost it.

Edited: nevermind, here is the post, and as I recall the post linked to two Ebay auctions where one forum member bought a toned Morgan for $72 on
Ebay, and the same coin is now listed on Ebay for $3800.

sliderider

Here's the thread I was referring to with the AT Morgan from the ANACS slab

EDIT: WOO HOO!!! Braddick edited out the link to the original listing when the coin was still in the ANACS slab, but I quoted him in one of my replies so the link is still there!!!!

Link for the lazy

abmluce

With all the edits the original post loses a lot . Too bad

UncleWiggly

All I know is that I've done business with Ananconda with very pleasing results. And I have no intentions of doing business with Texas Bullion Trader. EVER! I decided this before all of this. If Braddick felt in was necessary to apologize, then that's his decision and I have respect for him because of it.


Jerry

kieferscoins

Did they PM you?

Cameron Kiefer

sliderider

Nope, no legal notices yet, but then again, I'm one of those people who isn't worth suing anyway. I drift around from place to place most of the time doing low level jobs, and what few material possesions I have are only of value to myself, and my personal net worth fluctuates wildly based on how much loose change I have in my pockets at any given moment. They can sue me every day for the rest of my life if they wanted to and still not recover enough money to make a phone call.

darktone

If people are going to business in public(ebay, links in chatrooms ans so-on)they should be prepared for the public to do some research and if they buy from the same venue a coin for $75( or whatever it was) and try to sell it for thousands at the same place they will come off looking very bad- and they did. mike

abmluce

Braddick supplies some history for this coin and gets threats by PM??????
Am I missing something here?

mhammerman

OT...Maybe, but after reading the related threads I can offer a note. From my billiard playing days...a short lesson in life from Banana Slim (a real guy that had quite a national billiard reputation, retired and laid to rest in San Antonio years ago). Bananas taught pool to interested individuals for a fee and during the lessons he would sometimes talk about his life and method of maintaining his livelihood. He related to me in a lesson one day about how a shark (the allegory was intentional) has to eat and his diet mainstay is fresh fish. He also said that a shark has to keep swimming to breathe so if he stops swimming he will die. He explained that when a shark gets a fish, he hooks the fish deeply with his teeth and does not play with him...he grabs him, eats him and cr-ps the bones...and then looks for another fish and this is how a shark lives. For what it's worth.

IrishMike

We all shouldn't be surprised at a couple of things, that coins the fail to be holder eventually do either by getting messed with or another service having a different opinion. We also shouldn't be surprised that some individuals took exception to the post. There are collectors and dealers who show up at shows, buy coins, take them back to their hotel room, give them a bath and resubmit and upgrade them. It's fortunately or unfortunately part of the hobby. There is no such thing as full disclosure in this business.

Pat, when I first read your thread I figured the puppies would squeal. All I have to say on the subject is however a dealer choses to operate his/her business be prepared to be found out. This comment is not a criticism of your practices, but the reality that you created yourself.

EVillageProwler

Ok, can some kind soul please tell me what's going on? As I understand it, there is some noise going on about a textile-toned common date Morgan that is currently raw. It was bought at a relatively teeny amount to how much it was last being offered. Buyer different from seller. One board member laid out a bunch of data, and got angry PM's for his trouble?!? And, then, apologizes?!?

Is my understanding correct?

them back to their hotel room, give them a bath and resubmit and upgrade them

Happens *during* the show too.

EVP

coinlieutenant

Im still a bit confused really too...

shylock

No need to apologize Braddick, this is the forum at its best. The shared info here serves as consumer protection in a business that offers little of that. It would be a shame if this place got so politically correct that all we did was post smiley faces.

Honest dealers should be thanking you for bringing this to light, they're probably hurt the most by those with questionable business practices.

RYK

Im still a bit confused really too...

Ok, can some kind soul please tell me what's going on?

I think that there is a lot of confusion here, and while I do not claim to understand it, I will lay it out in general terms as best I can.

There was a coin that was bought on ebay for $75 by Party A and apparently later offered for sale by Party B for $3800. This point was made in Thread A by Party C. There was apparently some previous bad blood between at least two of the three parties and a cozy relationship between two of the parties. There probably was a lot of behind the scene PM'ing going on, but I am not privvy to this information. At some point (in the middle of the night for me), Party C retracted all statements in Thread A and also some statements in older threads and offered up this Thread B as a public apology.

So, A+B+C=0

All in all, what remains is not that interesting. The only aspect of the whole issue that was interesting to me was whether or not it was cool to buy a coin for $72 and offer it for sale for $3800.

wjd283

Sorry guys,but paying any kind of premium for a tarnished coin is simply ludicrous in my book.Whether it's pretty
or not.Just my two cents.

EVillageProwler

I haven't read all (or even most) of Braddick's statements, but I feel he should rescind his apology to the main actors in this hideous morality play that's really a negative metaphor of our coin hobby/industry.

EVP

nwcs

All I know is that I wish I could pay $100 for a coin and sell it for $3000.

ss350camaro

<< <i>I haven't read all (or even most) of Braddick's statements, but I feel he should rescind his apology to the main actors in this hideous morality play that's really a negative metaphor of our coin hobby/industry.
EVP >>



I agree, If part of the reason for this forum is to educate and inform, then why is it bad to point out something like what Braddick brought to our attention ? Did he receive threats from someone because he exposed their unethical scheme ?
Why is that a bad thing ? And why should he have to apologize for it ?

UncleJoe

It would be a shame if this place got so politically correct that all we did was post smiley faces.



Apologize? For what? If the thread in question was about an anonymous eBay dealer or better yet someone that has already been trashed on these boards over their slightly less than honest auctions, everyone would have been congratulating braddick for his fine police work in bringing to light another (or the same) unscrupulous dealer and their tactics.

Threats? I would like to see those threats posted. What possible explanation could the guilty? parties have to threaten anyone?

Joe.

Edit: Spelling NOT content.

Compa

OK it's all very interesting ... but what I want to know is:

1. Have we decided who is (are) the scumbag(s)

2. What is the prefered method of punishment - run them out of town - or string them up?

3. What time does the mob gather?

coynclecter

For a little further clarification:

There is nothing wrong with buying a coin for 72 bucks and selling it for 3800, we would all do it if we could. If the coin was for sale under value and you were able to see it then thats great. I believe the issue here centered around the originality of the toning and that the lines between AT and NT became blurred during the transition between parties. In my opinion, unless someone can honestly say, "yeah it's AT and I did it" then the selling party has the right to state thier opinion (even if it differs from a grading company) and if they say it's NT then the only one who can contest is the "doctor" if there is one and we haven't heard from him. If the buyer agrees it's NT then who can argue?

Simply put, if the buyer want's to pay 3800 for this coin then I can't see anything but a sucker buyer and as far as I know there's no law against that and if we flay every dealer/collector who oversold a coin to a sucker then there would be a lot of blood out there.

Buy the coin, not the holder, not the dealer and certainly not the toning.

coinbuf

Wow this is crazy! So Braddick posted some information that is in the public domain and then gets threated for it?? All I know is that after reading the first thread and then this one there are two parties that I never want to be associated with. O and braddick is'nt one of the two; you have nothing to be sorry for in my book Pat.

Chris

flaminio

Editing is for wusses. If one doesn't intend to stand behind one's words, one shouldn't post to begin with. I enjoy the CU forums, but my "home" will always be rec.collecting.coins -- no editing, no censorship, no hiding. Yes, it might get one sued from time to time, but that's the price of freedom.

skier07

Let's look at this more carefully. I'm a "reputable" car dealer. I buy a wreck car for $500 that
was supposedly totaled. I fix it and then attempt to sell it for $5000 and I don't reveal any of
the cars previous history. I think I have serious creditablility issues.

Bruce

kryptonitecomics

You shouldn't have to apologize braddick..........and that's all I am going to say as a party who read everything before edits. I personally thank you for the information braddick.

classiccoin

braddick..your edits apologizing and deleted posts build even more suspicion and intrigue to an already interesting and enlightening topic with no expalnation or resolution..you should have let your posts stand

abmluce

Knowingly not disclosing that the coin had been graded AT is on a par
with selling NTC coins on ebay using CU's price guide.

wjd283

I have'nt read anywhere that Braddick was threatened.

Sequitur

I have'nt read anywhere . . . threatened.

Rest assured, baseless threats were indeed made.

UncleJoe

Maybe the edit function should be disabled.

Joe.

K6AZ

I don't know what the big deal is here. There are several wannabe coin dealers pulling this stunt. I see the coins sold on Teletrade, Heritage, etc. then a few weeks later they are being sold by these "toning experts" for 5-20 times what they paid for them. And in this case, you see what happens when the subject is brought up, threats start flying and the person edits out their comments.

tcmitssr

<< <i>Maybe the edit function should be disabled.

Joe. >>



Please goodness, no. I am slightly visually handicapped combined with being an absolutely terrible typist. If I could not edit, even after checking and posting, what you see from me would be painful to your eyes instead.

ldhair

<< <i>Knowingly not disclosing that the coin had been graded AT is on a par
with selling NTC coins on ebay using CU's price guide. >>


I wish things were that easy. That same coin may come back tomorrow in a good holder.
I don't have a problem with anything Pat posted or with Adrian for listing the coin for what he wants to let it go.
This may not be the popular view but it's my view of the situation. Post what you feel is right and let the pieces fall.

UncleJoe

I wish things were that easy

Agreed. However, to repeat, if this had been an anonymous eBay seller/dealer he/she would have been torn to shreds and comments would have been written how we have to rid the hobby of this blight etc. etc.

I just want the standards that this board applies to others to be equally applied to board members.

Joe.

IrishMike

Joe, that ain't ever going to happen. There numerous things done on ebay by members here that are questionable. Not long ago a member here consigned his coins to another member here for sale on ebay, then proceeded to bid on his own coins. Before anyone threatens me with an email, I covered my you know what by pointing this out to the seller, consignor and another forum member.

K6AZ

Thanks for pointing that out Mike. That is another dirty little secret, where people "consign" coins to another board member then shill them up. But one doesn't dare name names, or it will be roasting and toasting time.

ldhair

<< <i>I just want the standards that this board applies to others to be equally applied to board members. >>


Can't argue about that. Sounds fair to me.

JrGMan2004

Though I did not get to read all of Braddick's comments... if he was speaking the truth, and presenting the facts (Such as that TBT had owned the coin) then I think if someone threatened to sue him, that's on the level of ACG sueing the RCC members...

K6AZ

Stand by George, I'm doing some research and I will post this stuff, and it will not get edited.

sliderider

Good for you K6. I'm glad someone isn't allowing this issue to drop so easily.