Yeah right!! No..I talked to David about it and he said it was fine as is...it takes nothing away from the coina and is not a "mutilation". That's good enough for me.
Maybe I should dump it ER. What's YOUR bid??
If I found a reasonable 66 I would upgrade...but the one that the Texas boys have is waaaay to high. There was a 66 at the ANR ANA auction that went for ~11k. Should have grabbed that one.
Jay I am glad you posted this thread re: the 11-s I really think it adds to the coin so IMO its a real keeper. I just wish someone could offer more info. I'll bet there are more out there and possibly other dates? I know I'll be looking for it everytime I look at a Saint from here on out!
<< <i>This coin is FOR SALE...It's a great ms65...Pedigreed. Very cool Counterstamp.....If you have any interest PM me.............................] >>
I must have very good eyes because that tilted 'x' appeared pretty quickly for me. (As well as the FedEx arrow). I would LOVE to buy that coin off of you, but I just won't have the funding for a good six months or so if I save every month.
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
Oh well...Iyou saw it because you looked for it...if you had no idea it was there you would miss it. Quite a few dealers did...I showed it at the mid-states showand many of them were shocked. COOOL. That's what I kept hearing!!!
not sure what some of the comments are about pcgs shoulda BB'd it or why did they NOT see it. I mean are they supposed to scrutinize a saint (or another coin for that matter) all 100% of the surface(s) etc?? I may be missing something but I'd assume that there just is not enough time to do it all on every single submission...........
btw, jay again I mention the photos are superior to most - you should offer some of the auction houses some tips
Back in 2001 I purchased a PCGS 1855MS64RD Half Cent piece. Upon examination, I found two initials engraved/scratched in the O of ONE CENT. Yes, the coin was a solid 64RD; and no the engraving didn't hold it from a 65. I didn't keep the coin.
Some people do scrutinize there coins like myself. Last year I bought a common date MS64 PCGS Saint, paid $695 for it, alot of money for me !!! I spent hours and hours studying every section of this coin with a 15x glass loup. I would be upset with that X on the coin. Some one did it, most likely back at the turn of the century, but it should not have a MS65 grade.Maybe they overlooked the X cause they felt it was a better date saint?Or maybe someone at PCGS did this on purpose, someone with a very large collection or has alot of interest in the rare coin market, to make the value of true ,pristine ,mark free,coins more valueable.
I'm not going to rehash or defend this with amateur critics...or anyone else for that matter. You buy your coins and I'll buy mine. I'm not looking to sell because it isn't a good coin...I'm upgrading to a ms66. So, fret not, because THIS is coin SOLD!!
Some people see beautiful roses while others see "dead flowers".
I've seen this coin in person and it is beautiful. Definitely not overgraded and while some people may call a counterstamped coin damaged I don't. There are other examples of certified coins with counterstamps. Three famous examples are coming up at FUN few people would consider the Brasher doubloons damaged. Another famous example is the Dexter 1804 dollar. The small D stamped into one of the reverse clouds actually adds character and IMO extra value.
Cool coin! Just wish I knew the story behind Mr. X
only read the 1st couple responses, but i think it's just a damaged coin, not a c/s or strike-thru. i thought pcgs wouldn't slab damaged coins??? guess it slipped thru the cracks.
Admittedly you did NOT read the posts yet you make a judgement that it is "damaged"?? Nice work detective, but you are wrong. Stay with your unslabbed stuff and leave the slabs to others.
It looks like a nice coin (would we expect anything less from old JB?), and I probably would have never noticed the "X". Now that I know it is there, I like it. I do not consider it to be damaged, and it adds some charm.
<< <i>few people would consider the Brasher doubloons damaged. Another famous example is the Dexter 1804 dollar. >>
The Brashers aren't damaged because the counterstamp is part of the "creation" of the coin. It wasn't finished until his counterstamp was applied that guaranteed the value of the piece. The EB counterstamp is SUPPOSED to be there. The Dexter dollar on the other hand may have history and a little character but it is a damaged coin.
<< <i>Admittedly you did NOT read the posts yet you make a judgement that it is "damaged"?? >>
uh, yeah, it's shocking that someone would make a judgement on something after seeing images of it....
<< <i>Nice work detective, but you are wrong. Stay with your unslabbed stuff and leave the slabs to others. >>
uhhhhh, what does the slabe have to do w/ this issue???
besides, counter-stamped coins ARE damaged too, the difference is some people like c/s trade dollars because they are supposed to get c/s-ed, but saints are not.
Good grief guys and gals I don't see any reason why anyone in this thread should get their underwear in a bind. We all know that if the grading company had spotted the mark the coin would have been bagged, I think that is what the posters are trying to say without either making an opinion on the value of owning it, how neat it is or anything else. Take intellectual comments and queries for what they are and not automatically assume they were meant to be personal or in your face.
About a month ago I saw a 1924 Saint in an NGC holder graded MS-65 or 64. It too had this x in the same spot. The owner told me some story about the secret service blah blah. Didn't really pay much attention to the story. Wish I had now.
<< <i>Good grief guys and gals I don't see any reason why anyone in this thread should get their underwear in a bind. We all know that if the grading company had spotted the mark the coin would have been bagged, I think that is what the posters are trying to say without either making an opinion on the value of owning it, how neat it is or anything else. Take intellectual comments and queries for what they are and not automatically assume they were meant to be personal or in your face. >>
bingo.
the point is, pcgs used to bag trade $ w/ chop-marks as damaged, which they are. they changed their tune on TRADE-DOLLARS. (so i understand)
this saint is damaged. so only 2 scenarios are possible, #1 they missed the damage during grading or #2 they now grade damaged saints.
<< <i>We all know that if the grading company had spotted the mark the coin would have been bagged
I doubt it. >>
Really, why do you think not? I can see the headlines now: Customer buys slabbed Saint, discovers an X engraved into it. Customer sends coin back to slabber under grading guarantee. Slabbing company says TS, its a 65. Customer shows coin around at shows, forums, media, etc. Slabbing company comes to senses and takes off the market. It's not worth the risk and publicity in my opinion.
Customer B engraves a Y into Saint, grading company bags it, tooled or whatever. Customer B complains, "you slabbed the one with the X"!
tradedollarnut..why would you buy that coin..because its in a good housekeeping plastic holder for security and thus ok..would you buy it raw at the same price knowing about the alteration or if pcgs caught and rejected it
That's most interesting. I have a PCGS MS-63 Morgan 1879CC with a similar "X" located next to the letters on the obverse. I never thought about it again until now.
no sympathy for mr guru..thats what happens when you are a slab trophy hunter and dont look at the coins closely yourself first..
and the antagonist, IMO.
"Bite me" is not a name, but I do not understand where it comes from. If you were angry with someone, would you not prefer that they are the one who gets the bite?
Comments
Jay, I think you should get another one.
Maybe I should dump it ER. What's YOUR bid??
If I found a reasonable 66 I would upgrade...but the one that the Texas boys have is waaaay to high. There was a 66 at the ANR ANA auction that went for ~11k. Should have grabbed that one.
NAAAAAAAH!!
I am glad you posted this thread re: the 11-s
Mark
<< <i>This coin is FOR SALE...It's a great ms65...Pedigreed. Very cool Counterstamp.....If you have any interest PM me.............................] >>
Oh boy, here we go.
Edit: Pics gone
Edit for spelling: Environmental
Hi Jay,
I've actually seen this happen numerous times on U.S. coins. I remember a 1911-D $5 Indian in true Gem condition that had a "D" in the cheek.
Thanks for the interesting scan.
David
Would love to here if it brings more than one without the counterstamp.
Maybe it's environmental damage if you're sitting in a tool shop, but...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I mean are they supposed to scrutinize a saint (or another coin for that matter) all 100% of the surface(s) etc??
I may be missing something but I'd assume that there just is not enough time to do it all on every single submission...........
btw, jay again I mention the photos are superior to most - you should offer some of the auction houses some tips
marc
Some people see beautiful roses while others see "dead flowers".
Cool coin! Just wish I knew the story behind Mr. X
K S
<< <i>few people would consider the Brasher doubloons damaged. Another famous example is the Dexter 1804 dollar. >>
The Brashers aren't damaged because the counterstamp is part of the "creation" of the coin. It wasn't finished until his counterstamp was applied that guaranteed the value of the piece. The EB counterstamp is SUPPOSED to be there. The Dexter dollar on the other hand may have history and a little character but it is a damaged coin.
<< <i>Admittedly you did NOT read the posts yet you make a judgement that it is "damaged"?? >>
uh, yeah, it's shocking that someone would make a judgement on something after seeing images of it....
<< <i>Nice work detective, but you are wrong. Stay with your unslabbed stuff and leave the slabs to others. >>
uhhhhh, what does the slabe have to do w/ this issue???
besides, counter-stamped coins ARE damaged too, the difference is some people like c/s trade dollars because they are supposed to get c/s-ed, but saints are not.
K S
njcc
<< <i>Good grief guys and gals I don't see any reason why anyone in this thread should get their underwear in a bind. We all know that if the grading company had spotted the mark the coin would have been bagged, I think that is what the posters are trying to say without either making an opinion on the value of owning it, how neat it is or anything else. Take intellectual comments and queries for what they are and not automatically assume they were meant to be personal or in your face. >>
bingo.
the point is, pcgs used to bag trade $ w/ chop-marks as damaged, which they are. they changed their tune on TRADE-DOLLARS. (so i understand)
this saint is damaged. so only 2 scenarios are possible, #1 they missed the damage during grading or #2 they now grade damaged saints.
K S
I doubt it.
Huh? That's rather judgemental of you. If I were a Saint collector, I wouldn't hesitate to buy this coin as my sole example of the date.
<< <i>We all know that if the grading company had spotted the mark the coin would have been bagged
I doubt it. >>
Really, why do you think not? I can see the headlines now: Customer buys slabbed Saint, discovers an X engraved into it. Customer sends coin back to slabber under grading guarantee. Slabbing company says TS, its a 65. Customer shows coin around at shows, forums, media, etc. Slabbing company comes to senses and takes off the market. It's not worth the risk and publicity in my opinion.
Customer B engraves a Y into Saint, grading company bags it, tooled or whatever. Customer B complains, "you slabbed the one with the X"!
hey saintguru, why the heck did you change the title of the thread?
K S
just the response i would expect..the truth hurts
The bite would probably hurt more.
no sympathy for mr guru..thats what happens when you are a slab trophy hunter and dont look at the coins closely yourself first..
and the antagonist, IMO.
"Bite me" is not a name, but I do not understand where it comes from. If you were angry with someone, would you not prefer that they are the one who gets the bite?