Finest known 1793 Strawberry Leaf Cent re-emerges...

ziggy29

After 60 years, the Parmelee specimen of the 1793 Strawberry Leaf cent has resurfaced for grading at NGC, where it was given a grade of F-12. It will be sold at the ANR Baltimore sale in November.

The article gives details of the coin's whereabouts since the 1940s, and it's rather interesting to see how a coin this important -- with only four known -- can "fall off the radar" for so long.

NGC Certifies Extremely Rare “Strawberry Cent”

DennisH

Neat!

Mark

That is a very cool story from NGC. I was amused by how the story said that the price was "only" $2,750 in 1941. $2,750 was a lot of money in 1941. Then, what a tragedy, that the purchaser was killed in WWII. He must have loved his wife a great deal to give to her such a wonderful coin.

Mark

DennisH

Didn't $2,750 go a long way toward buying a house back then?

JadeRareCoin

Very, very cool. Thanks for posting the story.

EvilMCT

Thanks for the link.

Ken

coynclecter

<< <i>Didn't $2,750 go a long way toward buying a house back then? >>



In most cities it would buy the house and the car.

EvilMCT

Forgot to add; too bad it's not collectible.

Ken

dragon

That's an absolutely fabulous coin and a major US rarity! It should bring a ton of money at auction. I wonder why NGC put the BN designation on the holder though, in F-15 condition, of course it's gonna be brown.

dragon

kamehameha00

<< <i>

<< <i>Didn't $2,750 go a long way toward buying a house back then? >>



In most cities it would buy the house and the car. >>



And it would pay about a years worth of bills.

Barry

Any guesses how much this will go for?

eyoung429

1.4mil

my3cents

only 4 known examples? I would guess north of 2 million. Maybe Adrian will bid on it

Barry

Is Adrian one of those wannabe dealers of Laura? He's been pretty quiet lately...

ziggy29

I'm guessing about $800,000 with the juice.

Baley

A FANTASTIC RARITY!!

NGC certifying quite a few "goodies" lately

coinguy1

A bit of (hopefully) interesting information on the introduction of 1793 cents:

Link

LittleBitOEverything

Great story and what a piece of american history.

Thanks.

kamehameha00

<< <i>Any guesses how much this will go for? >>



I am not sure if it would hit $1 Million as it is not widely known as the 1804 Dollars or the 1913 Liberty Nickels. I'm guessing it would bring about $800K-$900K with buyers premium.

sadysta1

when you convert the 1941 buy price to current dollars you would get $34,385.00, that's cheap and expensive ,,,,,

lordmarcovan

Sure wish they had a bigger picture of both sides of the coin.

nwcs

Isn't this one pictured in the 100 greatest us coins book?

mrearlygold

<< <i>Is Adrian one of those wannabe dealers of Laura? He's been pretty quiet lately... >>





The world apparently is filled with wannabe's


Tom

MrEureka

Very cool coin. Very cool story. But mostly, very cool to see a story in which Parmelee's name is not misspelled.

elwood

Very cool coin!!!


<< <i>Any guesses how much this will go for? >>


$250-$300,000 remember it's only a F-12 (EAC VG-7)

coinguy1

<< <i>$250-$300,000 remember it's only a F-12 (EAC VG-7) >>

It's supposedly the finest of approximately 4 or 5 known, in any condition. And, many serious copper collectors will happily add a super rare variety to their collections, even if the grade is "low". That is one super cool coin. Give me the over please

elwood

I think you could be right on the over. I will ask you one question, is it worth more than a gem chain or wreath cent?

keets

I am not sure if it would hit $1 Million as it is not widely known as the 1804 Dollars or the 1913 Liberty Nickels. I'm guessing it would bring about $800K-$900K with buyers premium.

...............and ain't it the truth!!!!!!!! demand is always a factor, but with this coin i'd bet there are some collectors who'll take a chance and be in the running for a classic that has only one way to go--------the sky being the limit!!!

al h.

MrEureka

I'll take the under at 500K hammer. PM me with proposed stakes. No bet is valid unless I confirm it via PM.

coinguy1

Andy, PM sent. Waiting for your official confirmation, which I couldn't confirm here, since I keep PM's private.

Russ

Nice, but would it cross to PCGS?

Russ, NCNE

MrEureka

Andy, PM sent. Waiting for your official confirmation, which I couldn't confirm here, since I keep PM's private.

Mark - You're out of your mind. There's no way I'm betting five grand on this deal. PM sent.

coinguy1

<< <i>I will ask you one question, is it worth more than a gem chain or wreath cent? >>

I think that might be two questions

<< <i>is it worth more than a gem chain.. >>

Maybe, but maybe not.

<< <i>is it worth more than a gem.. wreath cent? >>

Yes.

elwood

<< <i>I think that might be two questions >>


I think you might be right

Pistareen

It's rather fun watching everyone weigh in on this Perhaps we should ask Mandalay to establish an over/under in time for the next Trade n' Grade?

This is the best of 4 extant. The "EAC" VG-7 grade is somewhat irrelevant, since no members have ever seen this thing aside from a photo. It disappeared 25 years before EAC was founded.

The others are "EAC" graded 3, 3, and 2. The worst one is in ANS, the other two are privately held. Both of the privately held ones appeared in the same 1984 sale of Floyd Starr's large cents. Each brought about $50,000 at the time. I've held those two, and this one is a world better than either of them. Their owner has called them "tired and worn out," but they remain among the most exciting coins I've ever examined. This one has to rank pretty high too.

The sale will be held November 30, 2004 in Baltimore. It has been 114 years since the piece was last sold at auction.

Anyone with questions about the piece is invited to contact me at johnk@anrcoins.com, post here (if a public sort of question), or PM me.

mhammerman

Certainly not my specialty but this is a most interesting coin, from the hand of the creator directly into history. Neat coin and I have a tremendous amount of respect for the level of sophistication that a cent lover would have before attempting to have this coin. I bet there are some hidden folks out there quietly nursing their precious ones that will come out of their haunts to put the grab on this coin. Keets is right on it...

"...a classic that has only one way to go--------the sky being the limit!!!"

Even an indian hunter can get thrilled about this cent!

enjoy

Conder101

I think you folks are estimating too high. I'm thinking around $175,000. The closest thing to these that has a "recent" auction record in the 1795 reeded edge cent which has 4 1/2 specimens known. It has been as high as about 160,000 in private sale (And it also holds the record among EAC specialist. Some 1793's have brought more to moneyed type collector/investors) but it's most recent sales have been in the $85,000 range. Yes this is a rare coin but it is lower grade and not an overly attractive coin.

JadeRareCoin

I am thinking $150,000 +/-. Remember that this is a variety of a 1793 cent and not a rare date for the type, like a 1913 nickel.

seanq

<< <i>The closest thing to these that has a "recent" auction record in the 1795 reeded edge cent which has 4 1/2 specimens known. >>



Okay... I can't let that one just slide by. How are there 4-1/2 specimens known? Was one cut down and used as a half cent blank, with enough of the undertype visible to identify it? Thanks to you I know that some 1795 half cents were struck on spoiled large cents (C-6b, right?). Darn it, Conder, you're gonna convert me into an early copper nut yet!

To keep this somewhat on topic, it only takes two copper specialists with deep pockets to drive this one to the moon. I don't think $400-500k is unreasonable.

Sean Reynolds

MrEureka

Okay... I can't let that one just slide by. How are there 4-1/2 specimens known? Was one cut down and used as a half cent blank, with enough of the undertype visible to identify it?

Close. One of the known pieces is a holed brockage. Fortunately for LordM's pocketbook, he chose to collect holed Bust Halves, not cents.

BigMoose

Pistareen, I would be interested in your opinion as to whether you think the Strawberry Leaf Cents are products of the US Mint or something else. I know there was an excellent discussion of this at an ANS Conference a few years ago, but I am interested in your opinion on this subject. TomT.

kranky

I tend to agree with the view that this is just a variety and not a rare date, but on the other hand it's not just "a variety" - it's the Strawberry Leaf variety. It's been recognized as a serious rarity since the 1800's, and is one of the most well-known varieties of large cents even though only a handful exist. They certainly don't come up for auction as often as, say, the 1913 nickels. I think that will have a significant effect on the bids.

Start with a widely-known variety, factor in that it's the finest known of an incredible rarity, infrequent appearances, a hot market for ultra-rarities, and the wackiness of copper nuts (and of course I mean that in the nicest way), and I'm guessing $400K. It's the kind of coin that appeals to pure investors, not just EAC variety hounds.

Heck, Ed Frossard and Lyman Low got into a wrestling match (literally) in 1894 at one of Frossard's auctions over one of these cents.

Pistareen

TomT:

I firmly believe these were products of the U.S. Mint, and I believe there is a strong evidence-based case for this. I'll lay it all out in the catalogue description of the coin. I did not discover the evidence, but I'm happy to be the first one to publish it (with proper credit to the person who did first notice it).

Regarding the theory that these may be "patterns," the description is purely speculative. Some varieties are different and have unique aspects (like an AMERI), some varieties are incredibly rare (like an S-15, S-217, most NCs, etc.), this one happens to be both. If an AMERI was a lot rarer, would it be a pattern?

Kranky: the image of Lyman Low and Ed Frossard, the crusty old Civil War vet, rolling around on a tobacco-soaked auction room floor is one of the great vignettes of numismatic history. For more info on this episode, check out Carl Carlson's article "Strawberry Leaves and Shiners" in the November 1978 issue of The Numismatist. Charlies Davis and I covered this story in our ANA Summer Seminar class, but liability kept us from re-enacting it with our students ...

I should be able to post better pictures soon, either on this site or on the ANR home page.

Conder101

<< <i>liability kept us from re-enacting it with our students >>


Not to mention the cost since in order to keep it authentic one of you would have to lose a diamond stickpin.

And LM is building a holed set of large cents as well.

IvanOnly

That is a fine story and a very nice looking coin.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Hey Guys

I have an ms 64 R/B Strawberry leaf with a little porosity in my type set.Maybe I should have it certified.

Stewart

tradedollarnut

You had us until you said red - brown, Stewart. We all know you won't buy anything except red!

coinguy1

I was able to get an image of Stewart's strawberry leaf and I must say, it fits perfectly with the rest of his collection:

Link to image

kranky

This is just such a cool story, I have to get this up to the top.

Imagine how many other great rarities are being quietly handed down through generations. Some of them will disappear because eventually there will be a new owner who is careless and/or clueless. This family handled it right, making sure the coin was safe while ensuring family members knew the value.

ColonialCoinUnion

I predict $250,000.

Yes its exceedingly rare, and it is the finest known, and it does have a cool story behind it, AND its likely to be your one chance at it for some time, but I don't see it going for more than a cool quarter mil for 2 key reasons:

1) Even as the finest known, its a low grade coin and as such, I believe its appeal is limited.
2) Its too rare - so rare, in fact, as to be considered uncollectable and therefore not in demand by most collectors.

Remember also, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Pistareen

CCU:

Your point about being uncollectible is well taken. I think there are a lot of things (Strawberry Leaf cents included) that would be worth more if they were twice or three times as numerous. The only way people develop an appetite to own something is to see others have one, see one being sold, etc. When a piece comes up in major collections so infrequently, it becomes an asterisk more than a major mainstream rarity. It's the difference between an 1870-S dollar and an 1866 No Motto -- one is a rarity, the other is an asterisk. Of course, there are other differences between the issues, but the point remains.

Give yourself some credit, my boy -- every once in awhile I think you actually have a little bit of a clue! Of course, I hope your estimate is as accurate as your expectation of what some of the Ford colonials brought ... what did you think the Standish Barry was worth again?

JK